Now, where's that "waving a red flag' emoticon

Sesh?
If you are walking along the road with your winebag full of petrol, you are a) Transporting it.....by taking it from the gas station to the bike. b) Storing it..... by putting petrol in there specifically to transport it.......Or have I missed something?

You jumping up and down on an inflated winebag just proves it will carry your weight when inflated. It doest prove its safe to carry petrol in it. I am certain the DOT approval tests are far more involved and stringent than just jumping up and down on the container......Or again, have I missed something?

Video?? great idea. If you are going to make a video to prove your point, do one of you dropping a winebag full of petrol onto a hot exhaust while stood next to it......If you dont get flash-fried you might just change my opinion. (DISCLAIMER Dont anyone else try it)

Fixed-


:laugh:I'm an ass

Nightrider- OK ... a pop bottle holds 2 quarts, has a mouth too small to fit the filler nozzle of a pump in and worse than that, it occupies 2 quarts volume when not used. Bag holds 5 quarts and occupies a pack of cig sized volume when empty.

Sledge - trnsporting also includes putting it into a car and driving around with it. storing also indicates putting it there and leaving it for weeks. How about very short term storage, and very very low speed transportation. BTW it will stand up to over a weeks worth of both, mine has been soaking in gas for a week.

And I'd like to see you drop a plastic can on hot exhaust. If you dont get flash-fried you might just change my opinion.
Plastic can was invented and certified when, in 1960. Before that it was the metal can. All you arguments totally work for metal over plastic (except the leaking part). None of those work for mylar bag over plastic can. The mylar bag came into life when 1990 Simply put its not been tested because it was invented by a different industry, and its made to suit that industry. At the present time, making money out of it = making money out of air. Its not happening. So its not worth it to do certification on it.
The bag is much more air tight than a can ever will be. Your firefighters link has proved that that is vital. I guess now you dont care about it leaking ... you want it dropped on hot exhaust.
Cool.
Srinath.

They thought Galileo was crazy too... even locked him up. Maybe we should do the same to Srinath. 

Sesh?
You are clutching at straws. Let me be a bit more specific about your video. Of course a plastic can will melt if it drops and lodges onto a hot exhaust but it will give you enough time to stand back before it does, that is part of the approval standard......I should have said a glancing blow off the exhaust on the way down....lights...camera......action?

No sledge, you are constantly changing your stand. Now its a glancing blow on hot exhaust, not a problem it will entirely stand to that. Please do remmeber that the bags are double walled and are heated to 400 F or so to fuse them.
In any case Gasoline has been spilled on hot motor and exhaust several times by me personally, its not all that flammable in that situation. I do jump back though, but Its not caught on fire yet knock on wood. Has anyone else done that
I have only got 1 conclusion to make from all if this. You have never seen a wine bag. And certainly dont know where all its used. We constantly put them in hot cheese and chili dispensers. They heat it to ~160 I think and it sits there for hours. We stack 100's upon 100's of these filled with beans and other food and transport it in containers or frozen carriers. They are filled with Ragu sause types straight from the vat (very hot) and they dont blow. Its the non tear envelope of fluid transport. You'd need a pair of scissors to cut them and a knife or needle to puncture them. Exhaust will burn it, but not in the instant it takes in a glancing blow. Plastic can vs wine bag = Bag. No contest. Metal can vs wine bag, yes metal can except leaking and fumes.
Yea they'd prolly lock me up. I prolly have cost them a few 100 bucks. But I have cost DJ several 1000 atleast. This and the eliminator sites have people using a no kit method. Whooo hooooo ...
You're comparing 60's tech vs 90's tech and saying ... its certified. I'm old school, dont care what is certified. I see "certified" geniuses all the time when I try to hire people and they dont know their butt from a hole in the ground. In my opinion certification is just an accepted way to stay stupid.
Cool.
Srinath.

Wait a second here, look at this scenario - which is when you'd use winebag/gasbag ... OK you are riding. You run out of gas. You go Oh ... I'm out of gas.
You walk to gas station. Of course you can be 10 feet from a gas station, which means you'd prolly push it there inspite of having the bag. Anyway you walk ... and its prolly a good bit to the station, atleast 1/4 mile I'd say. And you'd be insanely lucky if it was only 1/4 mile. Walk up 1/4 mile and fill gas in it, pay for it and walk back 1/4 mile.
Assuming your average walking speed is 3 miles an hour - very high (we use 2.5 feet per second if I remmeber in transportation estimates) its been 8-10 mins of walking 1 way and 5 mins for fill and pay. 15-20 mins. I'd say you dont have a hot exhaust anymore. Its at best warm, your motor is prolly hotter than the exhaust ( cos exhaust will shed heat fast being out in the open ) and that would also be just warm.
I can see how a gas can needs to adhere to that hot exhaust restriction, cos you use it to fill boats, fill lawn mowers, fill dirt bikes on a trail, all of which aren't 15-20 min wait times.
Cool.
Srinath.

Sesh?
A question.....is it in your view a safe practise or not? Simple yes or no answer please.

Reply # 69! Woohoo! 

dead horse - bam - still alive

Of course, after all this, once you get to your gas station, at which there may not be self-serve (as in OR), you are unable to convince the attendant to let you fill your wine bag. Then where are you?

Better to just pay the $8 for the stupidity of having forgotten to both use the reserve switch and to fill up your gas.

I think it's dead now. Is it dead?

C-mon Sesh, is it a safe practise or not? Put your co** on the block......one word.... Y/N?

And remind us what the bag and valve are made from.

Safe - absolutely.
Are you stupid enough to get it messed up and have a bigger accident - absolutely. Probably no more so than with a can probably. Believe me, if you're making a habit of running out of gas, how to carry it may not be yur biggest probem. Anyway ...
Material - Bag is mylar, tap is delrin I believe - same material frame sliders are made from. Maybe its something else - acrylic/polypropelene. Scholle's makes only the bag. I only know about it in great detail.
No clue about the tap exactly except that it wont get eaten by gas. The wine companies buy the taps themselves from somewhere. No clue who makes that. The shut off valve (used by Ragu, Taco Bell other companies is made by scholles. But we're not talking about that. Use it, or dont use it ... or like me carry it, and hope you dont have to use it. I cant believe a waste product needs so much arguing to see if people want to use it.
Cool.
Srinath.

Sesh?
It has to be said that your opinion of it being safe contradicts that of the experts. With you saying its safe does that mean you think the Fire service, the DOT, the petrol companies, the garage owners and the legal bodies that control and govern issues relating to fuel safety are all talking BS?......again one word please Y/N?

Are you sure the bag is made from mylar? Mylar is a registered trade name owned by DuPont for their sole version of a type of polyester film. You will find the bag is made from what is known as Metalised-BoPET film.

You have got the tap right, it is polyprop` I suggest you now go and check on the proprties of PP and of the styrene based elastomers that the valve internals are made of. Pay particular attention to the (lack off) tolerances to aromatic-hydrocarborns inc petroluem that food grade PP and SBE has.

One word answers are possible only to one word questions. So stop your one word Y/N questions. Its stupid and worse than your strawman arguments.
I dont quite know what the tap is made of but it is resistant to gasoline. It also is very leak proof after several operations. The leaking I have said is possible is where the tap is re inserted into the bag.
You are yet to see one of these looks like.
The fire service and who ever have they explicitly siad that they have tested a wine bag and said that such and such is the reason why its unsafe Then your argument is invalid. They simply have not even thought about it.
DOT will test anything if you pay them for it. Petrol companies did they test it and say the wine bag I am refering to is unsafe. Again they all can say only carry it in an approved container ... who cares, they are just being CYA.
We used to call it mylar in the factory I worked at. We may have bought the raw material from dupont I dont quite know. I also dont know what the tap is made out of. Just that it has been sitting in gas for a week+ and didn't show any signs of deterioration.
So unless "the Fire service, the DOT, the petrol companies, the garage owners and the legal bodies that control and govern issues relating to fuel safety" are all saying the wine bag has been tested and it failed in these aspects they are all talking BS. Them saying use only approved container  for transporting gasoline is just covering their ass. One word answers are not possible.
Cool.
Srinath.

Can some one lock this thread? Every things been said....let it go, if you don't want a free bag, don't get one....simple!

This thread should be destroyed forever to avoid potentially polluting our offspring for generations.

Sesh?
Full marks on the cop-out, you should be in politics! What was so hard about the question? Either you agree with the Authorities or you dont.....simple. My guess is you feel obliged to agree with them and in fact do but you just dont want to admit it to me in case I accuse you of hypocrasy. Can you convince me I am wrong?

This link will tell you more about BoPET. Dependent on where the manufacturer sources his raw ingredients for his winebags particularly polyester film  it might contain Mylar... if he buys a product not made by DuPont it wont contain Mylar. BoPET might contain Mylar but the two are totaly different things.
http://www.contpoly.co.uk/Metallised.htm
http://www.contpoly.co.uk/BOPET.htm

You seem to think that the DOT will test any container for suitability for fuel.
I doubt it very much. ANSI/UL1313 covers standards for non metalic fuel containers in the US unless I am mistaken. If the system works like it does here in the Uk there will be a section in the standards document titled Construction Standards/ requirements. In it will be listed such things as suitable materials, sizes, markings, features, colours etc. If you want a product tested against this standard you have to at least try and meet the requirements before subjecting it for approval. You take them a winebag and ask for approval they will laugh in your face and say **ck off and dont waste out time.

So:
You have suggested twice I am making Strawman comments. In light of this I suggest YOU.
A) Clarify if the practise is safe or not and if you agree with the opinions of the authorities and governing bodies relating to fuel safety.

B) Take time to find out exactly what materials are involved and their proporties before making comments relating to the subject.

C) familiarise yourself with the relevent methods and requirements of type approval for fuel containers before suggesting your DOT will test and approve a winebag.

Sesh?
So far you have not made any comment that suggests you know what it is your talking about...and I am not even going to mention the subject of  safety, either with regard to yourself or others. Right now I am sat in a office with 5 other very experienced and highly qualified Engineers, and we are all laughing our heads off. You might be good when it comes to rattling the spanners Sesh but you should really leave matters like this to the Pro`s, particularly where safety is involved.

OK here it is ...
It will not dissolve in gasoline as its sold in NC USA.
The tap will not leak in the few times it will be removed and re fitted and opened and closed.
The bag will survive a 6ft drop when full of gasoline I believe without leaking, but will have to be tested.
The bag will completely come through unscathed with a 250 lb man standing on it.
The bag as it stands right now is a mystery to you and your friends.
I have already said, not worth testing it. I did say that they (DOT etc) simply haven't tested it and you seem to think they will not ever test it. And OK fine I will agree to that.
I dont know how many times to tell you the tests I have made amd how it behaved.
There is one more flaw which someone else pointed out. It has to be red. Gas = red in USA.
There are also several more tests I have to do. I want to soak it in diesel. I would also have to soak it in summer gas (which has different crap than winter gas, but winter is worse I have been told), and then again there is California gas.
I actually dont care who will or will not certify what. I dont ever care to market this, this is like I have said before like trying to patent and profit from air.
So stop throwing do this and do that in my face. I dont plan to do sheiete as per your desire. I plan to do whatever I am going to do and I plan to post about it.
Its all anecdotal evidence. i dont have to prove sheiete ... I dont ever plan to do anything other than post on a website with whatever I do to this.
I already have posted you may be too stupid to use this idea. Its like this, lots of people drink. Some of those fall in a ditch and choke on their own bile. If that's you, fuel in a wine bag may not be for you.
Its called ... freedom of speech.
Cool.
Srinath.

Yeah.......but is it safe?

OK so much for your "You seem to think that the DOT will test any container for suitability for fuel.
I doubt it very much. ANSI/UL1313 covers standards for non metalic fuel containers in the US unless I am mistaken. If the system works like it does here in the Uk there will be a section in the standards document titled Construction Standards/ requirements. In it will be listed such things as suitable materials, sizes, markings, features, colours etc. If you want a product tested against this standard you have to at least try and meet the requirements before subjecting it for approval. You take them a winebag and ask for approval they will laugh in your face and say **ck off and dont waste out time."

http://www.interstateproducts.com/all_tanks-fuel.htm?gclid=CNu6vPvoi4oCFQsEVAodfg03RA

OK. Then ... what other lies of yours can google expose ...
Cool.
Srinath.