Quote from: sledge on January 31, 2007, 04:33:23 PM
Yeah.......but is it safe?

Not only is it apparently very safe, its not even my idea ... so much for patenting or DOT certifying it. Someone has already beaten me to it and by a mile.
Cool.
Srinath.

Interesting......but it doesnt look like a winebag to me. What standard is it manufactured to? Cant see it being 1313. Its going to hold a lot more than a few litres and its hardly portable is it? It does mention its made from fuel resistant fabric...not Mylar/Polyester film. C-Mon Sesh try a bit harder.

And once again ... this tells me you are yet to see a wine bag ... cos the square ones, look exactly like a wine bag.
And I didn't say it was a wine bag. I just said it was a bag that is approved and used by US aviation and US military for storing and transporting (and yes, long term storage and high speed transportation) of fuels.
Did you notice that those bags were like 1000's of gallons capacity ... thought I might mention that before you say .. .well that seems like its so thick walled ... your wine bag seems so thin ...
But good to know you're renting a sense of humor, cos you're gonna need it when your theory about this or that comes crashing down.
Cool.
Srinath.

You think I have never seen a winebag??? Now that is funny, you must think we are still in the dark ages over here hahahah.

My theory is as follows, dont be confused

Winebags are not suitable or safe for storing or transporting fuel. Nor will they ever be certified as such owing to their design, and materials used. That thing in your link is NOT a winebag. Its a container thats designed and made specificaly to store and transport flamable liquids, unlike a winebag. There is no valid comparison here and I dont know who you are trying to convince. Like I said before.....try harder.

Well I didn't say that exactly ... and I didn't mean it as anything derogatory. When you say the words wine in a bag, or wine in a box people promptly give you the look ... that pretty much says, "what trailer park did you crawl out of" ...
Its cheap ass wine that comes in a bag ... mate. No reason you should feel bad if in fact you haven't seen one, and heck I thought europe was better than our Walmart box-o-wine drinkers. I hafta run. be back tommorow to find out more fuel bag trivia.
Cool.
Srinath.

Sesh
Dont worry about it, I didnt take the comment as derogatory. Over here people who drink wine from a winebox/bag are not really thought of as any different from those who choose a bottle although most prefer wine from a bottle. People tend to buy a winebox when they are having guests or a party. Cost doesnt come into it, you can buy a cheap bottle of rat- piss for about £3.00 much less than a box and get monstered on it no problem  if it doesnt rot your guts out first . Anyway Its no good asking me mate....I drink beer.

it's called getting "monstered"?

cool

Wine in a box has one advantage over wine in a bottle. They fill the bag to the top, without any air in it. The bag never gets any air till it gets emptied. So your wine never oxidises as a opened bottle will.
I should also not be surprised by its leak proof quality. Wine costs like $10 a gallon ($12 for the box which is 5 liters) Gasoline is less than 1/4th that. Obviously its leak proof. Wine also has alcohol and tons of acid in it as well as sulphur etc ... chemical proof. Plastic worst enemy is acid. Which is why tomatoes eat the plastic containers if you let it sit long enough.
Cool.
Srinath.

You are loosing the plot Sesh.

You mean losing and no I am not. Just getting though some stuff at work.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinath on February 01, 2007, 08:17:44 AM
Plastic worst enemy is acid. Which is why tomatoes eat the plastic containers if you let it sit long enough.

Bleh..I didn't need THIS image while eating lunch!  

http://www.turtlepac.com/collapsibleair.htm
http://www.turtlepac.com/airdetails.htm

They are dropping bags full of water from an helicopter here.
There is also the construction of the bag on the bottom. Basically Polyurethane and polyester and a fuel resistant coating on the inside.
I dunno what that is, but Polyurethane is itself gas resistant. Maybe they want that extra protection for Avgas or kerosene and for the service life.
Cool.
Srinath.

There is only one thing to do if you continue in this vein Srinath... dual drop tests from progressively higher floors of a tall building. Preferably with a lit candle in the vicinity.

And film it! 

Quote from: nightrider on February 01, 2007, 01:38:15 PM
There is only one thing to do if you continue in this vein Srinath... dual drop tests from progressively higher floors of a tall building. Preferably with a lit candle in the vicinity.

I will do that, as soon as you drop a plastic can filled with gasoline and I'd prefer a spark tester or a nice electrical short instead of a candle.
I am just making a point. Bags are in use for storing and transporting fuel very much approved by DOT and aviation industry. If you dont want to use it, dont, but if you've gotten on a plane chances are, you have used it.
Cool.
Srinath.

http://scholle.com/about/PDFs/Press-Successisinthebag.pdf

Mylar type MPB. And Evlax for the fill mouths. They package battery acid and cleaning chemicals also other than what I have seen.
There is more comming but like I said, its not somehting anyone can make and sell, so its pretty much a losing proposition.
Cool.
Srinath.

http://www.flymetothemoon.com.au/homebuilding/mylar%20chemical%20properties.pdf

That is for chemical resistance to solvents.
I dunno what to tell ya sledge ... you're wrong on all counts.
Its gotta be filled full of liquid and dropped 6 ft, 10 feet, 20 feet ... never mind that a can will never pass that test ... I will do it in a bit. I can stand on it, and it wont blow, lets see a can do that.
Cool.
Srinath.

Sesh?
I have to say I am struggling......struggling with your way of thinking on this subject. Remember we are talking about food grade Winebags..thats"FOOD GRADE WINEBAGS" and their suitability for storing fuel...thats"FUEL". The products and info you have linked to have no connection with the subject whatsoever so how do you expect me to make any sort of relevent comment?. I suggest we get back on topic before you loose any more credibilty. Talking about credibilty you are still copping-out from answering my earlier questions and still constantly digressing from the issue in hand as well as proving a lack of knowledge on the subject.

Instead of providing irrelevent info and facts.......back-up and justify your earlier statements and give me (or us) some hard and undeniable 3rd party evidence from a reputable source that contradicts the authourities and proves...like YOU say that fuel can be safely stored in a winebag, remember thats........ "A WINEBAG".

BTW, and I understand if you choose to disbeleive me on this one. I was doing some shopping last night in a local supermarket. In the wines and spirits section was a pile of about 50 wineboxes.....at least one of them was leaking as there was a sticky wine puddle on the floor.!! I couldnt help thinking to myself, Thats ironic, good job its not petrol in there, and having a good laugh to myself.

Srinath, Dont argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and always win on experience!

Sledge you were the first to bring this thread to a "personal insult" level and the first to bring up how dumb it is to resort to personal insults.
IMO there went your "credibility" as an adult.

Srinath isn't in jeopardy of loosing "credibility".  Even if he was 100% wrong, he has been right way to many times to loose face over one idiotic argument.


He thinks your wrong and you think he is wrong.  So f%$king what. Anyone reading this thread can see that neither of you will bow to the other.

Everyone can understand that it would be stupid to carry and store fuel in a winebag.  Even Srinath. I am sure he doesn't have a bag of fuel in his backpack as he rides.

You are correct in that it is an unnapproved container and probably highly unsafe for fuel.

He is correct that these bags are extremely hardy and by his first hand account, they will stand up to fuel.
--------------------

I think you both should agree to disagree.  AND LET IT GO.
I side with Srinath, for one because I consider him a knowledgeable friend and for two because you seem hell bent to make him concede that you are 100% right.

If you really believe he is wrong than take heed of your own signature.

If you are concerned with some idiot hurting themselves, then you need not worry, anyone legally riding a motorcycle can be considered  an adult and should be held responsible for their own actions. Besides the safety issue on this thing has been beat to death.

Nice anecdote about leaking winebag ... maybe someone stuck a knife while slicing open a carton. Now I have never seen a wine bag leak ever. There is a press type tap which can be pressed accidentally in theory if they dropped the box the wrong way. So theoretically it can leak without anyone cutting it open at all. However I never tested or suggested that press to flow cap, its rather small and I dont even like the wine that is in it anyway.
OK is it safe ... that is the question you keep asking over and over and over ...
There is a 100 kinds of "safe" ...
What exactly are you looking for. You need to start defining it. And make sure your definition of "safe" will not eliminate the plastic can.
Here is a clue you "loser". I wont be "loosing any credibility" ... I dont think I'd be loosing anything at all matter of fact. repeat after me, Lefty loosey, righty tighty ... get it.
They sell bags for storing and transporting fuel in aircraft and boats and what not. They are all Aviation and DOT approved.
The "wine bag" has been made to be chemical and solvent resistant. Its also leak proof and meant to carry the 1+ gallon of wine without ever spilling. Its over engineered to the point of having a fully inflated bag stand to the pressure of a 230+ lb man stand on it.
It will survive a drop when filled with fuel just a guess for now, and I'll have to test it in the near future.
As per everyone that has tested and certified it (ASTM and dupont) it, its resistant to chemicals and solvents. Check the table in that link.
You need to start defining what you mean by "safe" its obviously not going to be leak proof if someone stabs it with a knife.
Will it carry the weight of fuel - You bet, wine and battery acid as well as bleach are all heavier than gasoline and it has been certified and is in use for several years to carry those. BTW bike and car shops have a battery acid container. As you see it, its a carton with a hose. Inside of that carton is a bag. Battery acid usually has a density of 1.2 to 1.33. AKA heavier than gasoline.
Will it resist being eaten by gasoline in the time frame its going to be used to carry it. The tests done by ASTM and dupont (and me ) have proved that it will and for a lot longer.
If you want it to stand up and dance for you, maybe you should look for a dog.
How is my "way of thinking on this subject".
It may be "food grade" ... that doesn't mean its NOT solvent resistant.
Cool.
Srinath.