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Update on bike problems (crazy pictures)

Started by colobluefox, January 26, 2007, 05:31:03 PM

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colobluefox

what I have.
'96 GS500E
6500 miles
Bought about a month ago
To the best of my knowledge all the bike is stock (accept the tires)
The bike was is superb condition, a few rust spots on the frame but other than that it was in beautiful shape.
Ran fine.

I've put about 65 miles on it; I bought it to learn how to ride on.  It's almost all parking lot slow speed riding.

Yesterday, I took it to the fairground to practice weaving the cones by the book (by the way that is friggin hard.  I don't think twelve feet is far enough apart, but that's for another post)

After about an hour or a bit less, I came to a stop to set the cones up (again!) and the bike wouldn't throttle down below 4k rpms.  I blipped it a few times but still no luck.  It still wouldn't throttle down.  I got off and poked and prodded the carburetor and found a rod pushed it, it throttled higher.  I moved the choke, (that was the rod I pushed) and it when back to a good idle.  1400.   Got spooked so I came home (after I picked up all my crushed traffic cones)

Today after reading through this fine board, I started the bike up and sprayed WD-40 around the carb, but no change in engine speed or exhaust smoke.  It was idling good and after revving it multiple times it didn't stick.  I thought that maybe it was just a fluke.  Since I had the bike warmed up, I changed the oil and filter. 
I drove it around the house after I was done and it stuck again.  4500.  Blipped it, nothing.  Kicked it, nothing.  I reached over and gave it just a little choke and it dropped right down to idle again.

Now here is my conclusion, I think that I need to tear the carburetors apart and make sure that there are no missing springs, and nothing gummed up inside.  I'm thinking about re-jetting it and doing the mixture screw thing but I don't know yet. 

Do ya'll think that I am on the right track with thinking something is sticky in the carb?

DerekNC

#1
I think you're on the right track. I'm not sure anything is sticking in your carbs but taking them apart and making sure everything is clean should hopefully solve your problem. My bike as well as a lot of other's have done the exact same thing. If you've got stock jetting going slightly richer will help with the idle hang as well. If you can get a short jeweler's screwdriver at the mixture screws on the bottom of the carbs you might try turning them out a little bit to richen up the bottom end. The mixture screws may have plugs covering them so if that's the case you may need to remove the carbs to gain access. If that doesn't work you can pull the carbs and go through them.

colobluefox

(update)
I found a screwdriver to adjust my mixture screws today.  I checked them both.  They were 1 1/4 turn out so I backed them to 3 turns and went for a drive.
After the bike warmed up it started the same thing.  So I got mad, drove the bike home, and tore into the carburator.  Here is what I found.


I think that a inline fuel filter is in order.

The first mixture screw was in good shape but take a look at the other one.  Third from the left.



That probably has something to do with the bike running poorly.

Here is where it came from.



Now look closer.



Well I found the rest of the needle.

It is stuck solid!  I've banged it with a wood mallet, I bit of work with a regular hammer.  I found a bit of wire thats fits in the hole in the top but it won't come out.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I'm going to work on it for a couple more days.  In the mean time does anybody have a carb body for sale??  I'm afraid I'm going to have to replace it.

Jace009gs

Motorcycle's are God's greatest creation; turning gas into noise with acceleration & power as side effects

DerekNC

#4
I'm wondering if you put the carb body in the freezer if it would shrink the metal enough to let you get it out. PB-Blaster on the stuck part might help as well. That fourth needle looks bent as well. It might be worth replacing. www.flatoutmotorcycles.com sells the cheapest OEM parts I've found. For the carb body you'd want to find a good used one if you find out you need it.

Jenya

A bit out of topic, why are there four air-fuel mixture screws? Am I totaly crazy? I remember having only two. Two carbs - two screwes.

Jenya

dgyver

Quote from: Jenya on February 04, 2007, 03:41:22 PM
A bit out of topic, why are there four air-fuel mixture screws? Am I totaly crazy? I remember having only two. Two carbs - two screwes.

Jenya

2 new and 2 old
Common sense in not very common.

Afzzr12

you might want to try to find a tiny left handed drill bit and just barely touch it with that witha low rpm drill.  You might break it loose.  But, its kind of a gamble.  One slip and the thing s SCREWED.
Ride it like you stole it.  But, then fix it right.

Gisser

Quote from: colobluefox on February 03, 2007, 09:15:11 PM
I found a bit of wire thats fits in the hole in the top but it won't come out. 

Tough one.  The broken point needs to be pushed out from the inside but I doubt any thin guage wire would be stiff enough to get it done.  Before giving up I would try heating the carb in an oven and hope the different rates of expansion of AL and brass loosen the jam enough for the wood mallet to be effective (actually I would heat it over a hot plate in a coffee can 1/2 filled with oil but that's going to bring out the safety police :flipoff:).  Nothing to lose with this step.  Save the drilling method for last.  There's still some hope.   :cheers: 

GeeP

Hmm.  I guess the previous owner didn't know the meaning of "turn until it lightly seats".

The PO had no business working on carbs.

My guess it the needle seat has been enlarged significantly.  You might try removing all the plastic parts, cleaning it thoroughly in a water-based cleaner, and then putting it in the oven.  Over the period of an hour slowly raise the temperature to 500 degrees.  Quickly remove it, prod at the needle tip with a small drill bit held in a pair of needle nose vise grips.  Then quickly put it back in the oven, turn it off and let it cool slowly.

If the new needle will seat you're good to go.  If it won't seat then you'll have to replace the body.

An alternative would be to drill it out, but try the heat trick first.

If you miss when drilling it out, replace the carb body.  They're not expensive, but it's a good challenge to repair what you have.   :cheers:
Every zero you add to the tolerance adds a zero to the price.

If the product "fails" will the product liability insurance pay for the "failure" until it turns 18?

Red '96
Black MK2 SV

colobluefox

Thank you all for the suggestions. This noob needs all the help I can get. 

I tried heating, cooling, penetrating oil, tapping with mallet, welding tip cleaner with needle nose plyers.   No luck so I got impatient and tried to drill it out.

Well I have a hole, but it's to the side of the needle  :oops: .  Well I was pretty sure it was going to go that way, but I have a replacement carb on the way (Thanks to Tntmo) 

When I get it I'll probably be back on, about how to get the new carb body onto the old carb.  Well leave that until later.

tntmo

No problem, the carbs I have should be ready to go so you should be riding by the weekend if you just bolt them on.  They are boxed, postage is paid and they will be shipped tomorrow.  :thumb:

GeeP

At least you tried to repair it.  A+ for effort.   :thumb: :cheers:

Sounds like you'll be on your way shortly.  Before you hook up your fuel tank to the new carbs make sure it isn't contaminated with water or particulates.
Every zero you add to the tolerance adds a zero to the price.

If the product "fails" will the product liability insurance pay for the "failure" until it turns 18?

Red '96
Black MK2 SV

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