Ok, so I decided to do the valve check this weekend, and found that both my intake valves are too tight by one size. Those I replaced without problem, but I couldn't get one of the exhaust buckets to spin into position to be able to pop the shim off. Is there any way to rotate the buckets on those so I can get access to the them?

Another thing I noticed was on top of my breather cover gasket thingy (and on the underside of the cover itself) there was a lot of white gooey gunky stuff. Any idea what that is?

Finally, on another note, I noticed beforehand that one of my spark plugs looked fine, but the other one was completely carbon fouled. Is one cylinder running rich because of unbalanced carbs or something? Or maybe because of the valves being out of spec?

Quote from: pingpong on April 15, 2007, 02:29:43 AM
Ok, so I decided to do the valve check this weekend, and found that both my intake valves are too tight by one size. Those I replaced without problem, but I couldn't get one of the exhaust buckets to spin into position to be able to pop the shim off. Is there any way to rotate the buckets on those so I can get access to the them?

Take off the cam bearing cap -- that should create some clearance so you can rotate the bucket.  Be sure to put it back on and torque to spec.

The spark plug could be due to the valves.  Replace them and recheck once you get your valves situated.  You should always check the balance of your carbs after adjusting your valves.

I have found that a small screwdriver (the same one I use to pop the shims out) rotates the bucket well.  You just have to find the notch in the bucket.

The white gooey stuff is water that condenses with oil, its typically builds up in the cooler months, just make sure if you only do short trips on the bike to once and awhile get her on the freeway for 15 minutes

Quote from: Egaeus on April 15, 2007, 09:56:16 AM
The spark plug could be due to the valves.  Replace them and recheck once you get your valves situated.  You should always check the balance of your carbs after adjusting your valves.

I have found that a small screwdriver (the same one I use to pop the shims out) rotates the bucket well.  You just have to find the notch in the bucket.

The problem is, I can't get to the notch because it's either on the sides or to the front of the bike, where I can't access them, and I can't spin the bucket so that I can get to it (even though I have than enough clearance). Intake valve buckets spin freely, but I can't get the exhaust buckets to budge at all.

Quote from: pingpong on April 16, 2007, 02:40:08 AMThe problem is, I can't get to the notch because it's either on the sides or to the front of the bike, where I can't access them, and I can't spin the bucket so that I can get to it (even though I have than enough clearance). Intake valve buckets spin freely, but I can't get the exhaust buckets to budge at all.

Are you saying you have more than enough clearance on one or both exhaust valves but still can't rotate the buckets?  If you have any clearnce at all you should be able to rotate the bucket with your finger tip without seeing the notch, I always could on many valve adjustments on 2 GS's over 120k miles.

Except on one exhaust valve on my 2nd GS and I couldn't budge the bucket anyway I tried.  It had about .008" clearance (spec is 001-.003") and I let it go.  That bucket was fit too tight in the cylinder head at the factory and it held the valve open a bit all the time on a cold non running engine but would loosen up in less than a minute when started as the head heated up and expanded and it ran fine after that.  Bought bike with 4k miles on it and ran it until 21k miles without replacing that bucket and one very cold winter morning I cranked it to start and it stopped with a big bang and wouldn't turn over again.  That exhaust valve stuck wide open in the cold and hit the piston and broke the head of the valve off:



If this is the case with your bike, better get it fixed before a valve breaks and does engine damage.  Maybe pull that camshaft and see how tight those buckets really are.  After pulling my camshaft with the broken valve, I couldn't budge the bucket by putting a screw driver in the notch, had to drive it out from the inside after pulling the head.

You didn't say what year bike, miles on it, and if it's your first valve adjustment on this bike.  You working in inches or mm's?  I can work in either but can only think in inches after 7 decades of doing so.   

I now have over 46k miles on the 02 and it's been good as new since the engine repair.

Yea, my right exhaust valve has a clearance of about 0.15mm, but I can't rotate the bucket at all. Shim rotates fine, though. The other exhaust valve is at somewhere under 0.04mm, but the shim rotates as well, and bucket does not. Both intakes buckets rotate easily, it's just the exhaust ones that are as if they're stuck solid and won't budge.

It's a 95 with around 20k miles. I'd assume the POs did valve adjustments on it before, but this is my first.

I just did an adjustment last month and had the same issue with one exhaust bucket (could not rotate it).  I couldn't get the tiny screwdriver in the notch to move it, and it would not rotate with my finger alone.  Once I loosened the cam bearing half, I could move it, so I didn't have a tight bucket fit like GSJack.

I had to go down three sizes on that one (2.50 > 2.35)-- it had apparently been off the seat for a while.  I'm embarrassed that I put it off for so long , but I did get a lot of riding in!   I noticed that deceleration with throttle closed was MUCH improved, as was low RPM acceleration.

Try taking off the cam bearing half -- maybe it will be easy.

I hope it isn't what GS jack is saying. You could try to turn it with some channel locks, I can't see it hurting the valve, but who knows. At least if you broke something, the engine wouldn't be running so the dammage would be isolated to the valve and you wouldn't blow ahole in your pistons and or head.

Another thing that you could try is to try turning it with the engine warm. Go for a hard ride, or let the bike idle for 5 minutes or so then quickly pull off the valve cover and try spinning the bucket then. Maybe if you spin it every couple minutes as it cools you might free it up  I'm just rying to be creative here.

of course removing the cam wouldn't be too hard, and you could change the shim that way, but Jack had his valve break because of a stuck bucket so it'd be a good idea to free it up.

Worst case is you'd have to remove the head and have new valve guides/retainers/bucket installed, which shouldn't be too hard or too expensive, but I'd try the channel locks first.
good luck. 

Quote from: pingpong on April 16, 2007, 12:47:11 PM
Yea, my right exhaust valve has a clearance of about 0.15mm, but I can't rotate the bucket at all. Shim rotates fine, though. The other exhaust valve is at somewhere under 0.04mm, but the shim rotates as well, and bucket does not. Both intakes buckets rotate easily, it's just the exhaust ones that are as if they're stuck solid and won't budge.

It's a 95 with around 20k miles. I'd assume the POs did valve adjustments on it before, but this is my first.

So it is sticking buckets since you have clearance on both exhaust valves and couldn't rotate the buckets but could turn the shims, just a question of how tight they are.  Could be the POs didn't check the valves or just let it go if they did check them.  I bought the 02 in Sept 03 with 4500 miles on it and checked the valves in May 04 for the first time and found .008" clearance on the valve with the tight bucket.  Decided to let it go awhile since it loosened up quickly after start up and ran good.  Thought it might loosen up with wear in time.  I let it go again in March 05 and it was just after that the valve broke on a cold morning with 21,500 miles on the bike then.  About what you have now.   

I wouldn't let it go again, I'd get it fixed now rather than later if it were mine.  I would not change the shim without freeing up the bucket on the one with .006" (.15mm) clearance.  The tight bucket is probably holding it open and it would be tight after warm up with a thinner shim.

You could pull that camshaft and see how tight the buckets are, with the shaft out of the way you cold put a screwdriver in the notch and hit it lightly with a hammer to see if it will turn.  Don't want to grab the body of the bucket with channel locks unless you're sure your going to replace the bucket.  The part of the bucket sticking up goes down into the bore when the valve is compressed.

You know that aluminum expands at a greater rate than steel when both are heated up so the bucket gets loose quickly when the engine starts to heat.  Likewise, valve clearances increase as an OHC engine with steel valves and an aliminum head heats up.

When I closed it up with the tight bucket the second time in March 05 I was just thinking about how I might fix it without pulling the head when the valve broke.  I was considering just pulling the camshaft and heating it up gently around the tight bucket with the propane torch after cleaning up all the oil and then seeing if I could get the bucket out with pliers.  Would have to be careful to heat only enough to pull bucket and not warp the head.  Maybe ducati_nolan's idea of running the engine to heat it and then pulling the camshaft and buckets would be better.

Twenty years ago I wanted to know how much valve clearance increased on my CB750 when it was hot so I pulled the valve cover on a hot engine one day and checked clearances.  Valves that were set to .003-.005" cold had over .015" clearance hot.

My GS500 valve check/shim log:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/valveclearances.jpg