Just so everyone knows, batteries are INCREDIBLY bad for the environment.  I'm not a Ph. D, but I am a B.S. (not bull) Chemist.  Heavy metals (like lead) are incredibly toxic.  Manufacturing batteries produces a lot of naughty by products, not to mention disposal of the batteries when they wear out.  Electric vehicles sound environmentally friendly, but they are just as bad (or worse) than gas powered vehicles. 

And just so people side with me...

My GS gets 60+ mpg, produces minimal emissions, and has a reliable range of over 180 miles.  There are zero electric vehicles that can perform remotely close to the GS.  If more people would buy a GS AND a Honda Accord (or similar) instead of a monster SUV/Truck/M-1 Abrams Tank, the world would be a much better place.  Gas prices would also go down due to supply and demand.

I am the great consumer, my bike gets between 28 and 38mpg just depends on how much I twist the throttle and my new truck gets 14mpg loaded or unloaded. I guarantee you my 2 vehicles will do less damage to the environment than just the environmental manufacturing damage associated with one of your "enviromentally friendly" hybrid vehicles. You want to do something right start subsidizing the construction of ethanol refineies and bring back the heyday of the agro economy. Get Americas ethanol manufacturing capabilities up and I would gladly farm corn for a living.

Until they figure out how to create and contain quantum cingularities or fusion reactors the size of a ladies purse to use as lifetime power cells you will never see the damage done by mineral mining offset by the "green friendly" electric motor.

Electric cars aren't perfect but the idea is that they're a lot more flexible. Gas cars require gas to run. Ok great. Gas only comes from one place, you're locked in for life. Electricity, while it is still mostly fueled from coal and natural gas, at least has the capability to be generated from alternative cleaner sources. You also have to consider that it's usually a lot easier to reduce emissions from a single large scale source (a power plant) than from millions of cars. Hydrogen and electricity both rely on the same premise, instead of power the car with a fuel, you store up energy in the car and generate that energy from various ways somewhere else. It's not perfect, but still a lot better than what we've got.

I think right now nuclear power is the best bet for clean energy, nuclear waste is nasty but it's easier to manage a small amount of nuclear waste than a large amount of environmentally damaging chemicals leeching into the air and water. But I don't know that we'll ever see more nuclear power here. You'd have a hard time finding a community willing to let a nuclear plant be built, and with the regulations in the current nuclear industry it would essentially be impossible to make money on a nuclear power plant. Back in my college days during nuclear engineering courses, we took a tour of an abandoned nuclear power plant near cincinatti. Pretty cool, but more impressive was the fact that they abandoned it. They'd sunk millions of dollars into building it and every inspection came up with new regulations and requirements, until it got to the point where they did the math and found it wasn't worth the cost to finish building it.

Still waiting on breakthroughs on solar, seems to be the best bet if they could get it cheap and efficient...

If they make it to market for under $20k, I'm buying one of these:



seats 3 (I can pick both kids up from school), comes in all electric or hybrid, 100+ MPG, air bags, crumple zones, etc. I love my bike, but this thing would make a much better commuter with 3 seats, better gas mileage and actual crash protection. I'd keep the bike for fun of course

Except that would be death in a Northeast winter...while I hate to contribute to pollution and would like to ride a bike all year..its just not practical here in NY. Unfortunately I'm going to have to buy a truck/suv something with 4x4 and a decent ground clearance...

yea batteries are horrible

the plant that makes the prius batterries in ontario is surrounded by a total environmental dead zone because of the lead mining and refining that goes into those batterys.

i would rather drive a freakin hummer that contributes to "global warming" which is really made up anyway, then a car that has immmidiate, tangible, and disasterous effects on the environment.

It's ridiculous how reliant we are on coal and fossil fuels, and how unwilling/uncertain governments are towards changing for the better... All I know is that I'm taxed up the @r$e when filling up at the pumps, and it HAS to change sometime. As I mentioned on the last page, Sugar-fuelled (bacterial) cells are developing at a great rate, and like lithium batteries the uses will increase tremendously as development continues... For example: http://www.cio.com.au/index.php/id;1546981340

It's odd that with all the research going on, our governments seem to continue to support regression (just my opinion)...

Cheers,
J

Quote from: jdanna on June 04, 2007, 12:50:28 PM
the plant that makes the prius batterries in ontario is surrounded by a total environmental dead zone because of the lead mining and refining that goes into those batterys.

Link or other evidence for this?  I'm skeptical myself.  Of course, I believe in global warming as well (like a tremendous majority of environmental scientists who are not on oil company payrolls).

Every web link I can find about this topic contains EXACTLY the same text.  Can't rabid-foaming right wingers paraphrase?  JEEEZE LOUISE!  I did find this tidbit which seems to correct the misinformation found on all the wingnut sites:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/text/print.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=

That link, unlike all the others, has an attribution, AND is on the website of a prominent English newspaper.  But I know facts are inventions of the liberal media...

I'm just going to reiterate my point that I might have not been to clear on. 

Hybrids are false prophets (as far as environmentalism goes).  Electric cars rely on large batteries (bad for environment), and can't remotely compete with gasoline or diesel powered vehicles for performance or practical range.  Electric cars just can't be remotely practical without major improvements.

Gas guzzling vehicles, while sometimes necessary, are just as bad.  Not to mention statistically SUV drivers are the WORST on the road. 

The only practical semi-environmentally friendly solution available at this time is changing society's way of thinking.  The only way to change society is to change yourself, first. 

For instance when possible commute/run errands/ ride your GS.  Not only will you help the environment you'll look cool doing it, and you'll have way more fun.

GS= Good Steward (of the environment)

ps.  Onlypastrana199, although Subarus aren't great on gas they are better than most other AWD vehicles.

The most economically and environmentally friendly transportation is...  A bicycle.




(Don't say feet, 'cause walking isn't transportation... It's just walking.)

I read today that an additional gas tax of 2.5 cents per gallon would more than double the federal research budget on renewable fuels.  But it's considered politically not possible.  WHAAAT?!!??!!??  Gas went up 66 cents in May in my community and they don't have the balls to raise taxes 2.5 cents to fund research?  Cowards, each and every one.

I propose a 200% gas tax toward research on out how to get Hummers, H2s, and Escalades off the road...



Hmm...  The 200% increase might do it without actually researching anything...

whore

Lib

+1 Vertigo, just put the GAS up to something rediculous and force people off the road... Thing is, most of these people with Hummers/Escalades are superficial and would probably rather go bankrupt than ride a bike to work.

Where is our breaking point?

Cheers,
J

That's okay everyone get rid of their trucks, then when someone goes down and calls me to pick their ass up I am gonna go nope you can't borrow the bed of my truck since you took an anti american stance. If you like the way other nations do shaZam! so much better then move the f%^k there quit trying to turn my home into a whiney mealy mouthed kitty cat whipped land of dickless libs. There's times I hate 4th ammendment rights and this is one of them but I'd still fight for you to keep the right to say what you think.

Owwwww my kitty cat hurts everyone should drive a prius.

When did George Bush get a GS500?

He'd rather live in a nation where the poor starve to death, the rich eat monkey brains of the backs of dead rhinos, and the American dollar is worth less than the Canadian Dollar.

Well, the third one is nearly true...  $1.10 CND == $1.00 USD 



Anyway...  I'm too lazy to ride a bicycle.