You're right.  So it would be more like an electric chair or a noose in comparison.  It would be the chair that he would have sat in or the noose that he hung from...

Quote from: DomYou're right.  So it would be more like an electric chair or a noose in comparison.  It would be the chair that he would have sat in or the noose that he hung from...

Yes, I've never seen the point myself.  I think it's that some people need symbols to help them remember.  That in itself is not a bad thing.  There have been times I've been glad (in hindsight) that I was wearing my wedding ring.  :lol:
But when the symbol becomes important in itself, it's time to rethink its place in your philosophy.
At the risk of starting another thread, and perhaps a flame-out, the same thing applies to a nation's flag.  It is not something holy in itself, it just serves as a reminder and rallying point for the faithful.  Not to say it's not valuable and worth respecting.  Just don't get too precious about it.

Resurrecting this thread- Jesus style...

Probably not the best idea...   

As far as religion/god/etc:  Whatever floats your boat, so long as it doesn't float my way.   

WTF is with this night of the living dead threads???!!?!!?!?!?!?

We like to bring you up to speed on the history of this site and some of its members.  Plus, this helps prevent others from bringing up the same subject in a new thread.

can I bump the next old thread?

As for the subject of this one...I believe in God because I've yet to encounter opposing proof.

someone wake me up when this bull shaZam! is over 

You'll be at 1000 posts soon Frankie , with these helpful Posts... Im sure there helpful

I dont believe in god , i dont believe that someone is there , people who are afraid of death , make themselfs feel better , thats my taking on it...

Quote from: Jay_wolf on July 10, 2007, 06:41:33 PM
I dont believe in god , i dont believe that someone is there , people who are afraid of death , make themselfs feel better , thats my taking on it...

*Like Geep , i tend to stay away from these discussions , but ... my personal opinion is that Jay has hit it on the button .

Back in the day religion was a way to explain things people didn't yet know ( Greeks heard thunder , saw lightning ... made a god responsible for it) . Religion was also a way to instill particular "morals" upon people ... "Hey , don't kill that dude , that's not nice" doesn't work quite as well as "Hey , if you kill that dude you're gonna go to Hell" .

Bah....read the first two pages then my brain tried to eat itself.
To me, the discussion...or rather, the arguments that rage on about religion are much like the ones that rage on about politics, and how to raise your children, and whether or not eggs are good for you...EVERYONE has their own views and opinions for which they will fight to the death.

I, personally, don't believe in "God"; be it a western one or an eastern one. I'm not atheist though. I take a pretty agnostic view of it. I'm certain that there has to be some sort of being or beings out in the vastness of the universe who are waaaaaaaay more intelligent than we are (at least I really really hope so  ). However, I don't believe that these beings are omnipotent or omnipresent. Basically I take the view of someone who's too lazy to do adopt either viewpoint on the basis that I don't want to read rofl.

I'm anti-organized religion, but very much so pro-spirituality. Vtlion made a good point with which I agree to an extent. Religion is believing in 'someone elses' god, and communicating to him through a pope or priest or whatever, and spirituality is developing your own connection to whomever you believe in. To me, religion seems to stifle people thinking for themselves (I mean, come on...believers are even called "the flock"  ); spirituality, however, is thinking entirely for yourself.

I guess I'm really bitter because I hate being told that such and such is going to happen because I don't believe in god; or whatever.

I agree with George Carlin. They should add a commandment that says "thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself".

Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes...but I guess that's actually pretty hard to avoid with topics such as these.

the way i look at it is this. yes i DO believe in god, also i am abeliever in evolution. ( wierd Eh?), 

I don't! There I said it! Now leave me alone about it!   

i live for the moment and believe there is a path that what ever i do is or was chosen for me my a higher being and that higher being would be god. there for hwat ever happens i am happy with and what i have done is in now way going to affect the out come in the end as it has already been chosen

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on July 10, 2007, 09:10:52 PM
the way i look at it is this. yes i DO believe in god, also i am abeliever in evolution. ( wierd Eh?), 

WIIITCHCRAAAFTTT!!!!

Yeah, should know enough to just stay away.

I don't believe in "belief".

The way the word is most often used, it means "there is not enough evidence to prove this, or to demonstrate it, but I'm going to DEFEND it against all other thought or contrary evidence anyway".

Not a rational position. If you have a working hypothesis, and you encounter evidence that contradicts it, you revise the hypothesis, you don't defend it. If you do, your world-view comes closer to approximating reality. If you don't, you are deliberately diverging your world-view from reality.

Not my place to deny or refute anyone elses best guess... but when they use the word that way, they're signaling that it isn't really a "best guess" anymore, they've chosen to defend it against contrary evidence, and thus treat the evidence itself (reality) as the enemy of their "belief". In other words, they've consciously chosen to take, and defend, an irrational position. That's why any discussion is worse than useless. Doesn't matter at all what the belief actually IS, because belief itself is the fallacy.

There is no bigger lie than "you have to believe in something".

No, you don't HAVE to "believe" in ANYTHING. Just as you don't HAVE to have an opinion on EVERYTHING, current culture to the contrary. Why do you feel obligated to have an opinion on every subject, even if you've given it no thought or study at all?

Free your mind from the culture traps, see where the evidence itself takes you.

Yeah... What he said ^^^


I used to classify myself as an philosophical agnostic, simply because I do not care if there is a "god."  If there is, good for you...  If there isn't, good for you too...  It doesn't keep me up at night or wake me up in the morning.  If there is a question I can not answer, I ask myself if I need to know the answer.  Where did all life come from?  I dunno...  Does it matter?  I know where I came from; my mom and dad...  Where did the universe come from?  I dunno...  Does it matter?  Science will try to answer these unanswerable questions and will never succeed.  Religion answers all unanswerable questions with the same answer:  "god"

Since most people misunderstand what "philosophical agnostic" actually means (also known as Model Agnosticism)...  I could explain that "philosophical and metaphysical questions are not ultimately verifiable but that a model of malleable assumption should be built upon rational thought."  But, again...  People wouldn't get it.  When I would talk to Atheists, most would INSIST that there is no god...  And I would argue that it takes as much faith to believe there is no god as it takes to believe there is a god...  But, since I have no faith in either direction and honestly don't give a crap, where does that leave me?

I started saying that I'm an Atheist, but it's not entirely accurate either...  Well, depending on how you define Atheism.  Here's an article about it:  Atheism vs. Agnosticism  (There are lots of links to other articles about Atheism and Agnosticism as well).  I am a lot closer to the way that article defines Atheism...  As an absence of belief.

I could say that I'm a Secular Humanist...  But, it's also misunderstood and not quite right...  Nontheistic non-religious humanist?  Hmm... Sorta...  But, too long of a "title."


The real question is:  Does it matter?  Does someone else's religion of belief in god make them a better or worse person? 

Well, according to a Poll taken in 2005, the large majority of Americans would NOT vote for an Atheist Politician...  Atheists rated the LOWEST of all the groups listed (Catholics, Jews, Evangelical Christians, Muslim Americans)  Also from a 2006 poll: 

QuoteFrom a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate Atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in "sharing their vision of American society." Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.

Rated the LOWEST...

I guess that answers the question...  Being an Atheist DOES make you a worse person...  Well, to everyone that dislikes me because of my religious views (or lack there of), please refer to this quote:

Quote from: George Washington"If they be good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa, or Europe; they may be Mohammedans, Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists."

Why do I believe in god?

Because the assumption that we are the sole intellect in this universe is so arrogant that even I could not go there.

I believe in God because He has revealed Himself in the creation of the universe.

Talk to a mathematical statistician, the odds of all of this happening by accident are so great that it takes a lot of "faith" to believe in the evolution theory of how things came about.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here and that's OK.
You guys be safe out there.

Quote from: bettingpythonBecause the assumption that we are the sole intellect in this universe is so arrogant that even I could not go there.

Isn't that the assumption that most christians make?  That humans on Earth are the only intelligent life?

No aliens?

No life on planets outside of our solar system?