Quote from: dgyver on August 18, 2007, 05:04:06 AM
Do not do clutchless down shifts....unless you want to rebuild the tranny and replace shift forks.

so what would be the safer way to down shift if the clutch cable breaks?

Quote from: CndnMax on August 18, 2007, 09:08:20 AM

Quote from: dgyver on August 18, 2007, 05:04:06 AM
Do not do clutchless down shifts....unless you want to rebuild the tranny and replace shift forks.

so what would be the safer way to down shift if the clutch cable breaks?

The safest thing to do is ride to a safe area or pull off the road and roll to the point of stalling then turn the bike off.

Having to because of the situation is different than doing it to be cool. The rare time of needing to will not cause enough damage. Not like clutch cables break that often. In almost 30 years of riding, I may have had a cable break on a dirt bike once.

Quote from: dgyver on August 18, 2007, 12:07:05 PM
The safest thing to do is ride to a safe area or pull off the road and roll to the point of stalling then turn the bike off.

Having to because of the situation is different than doing it to be cool. The rare time of needing to will not cause enough damage. Not like clutch cables break that often. In almost 30 years of riding, I may have had a cable break on a dirt bike once.

yeah i know, i wouldn't down shift without a clutch just for fun. its pointless really usually downshift to slow down, so u really have no need for a quick shift.

Really DG? I never heard that it will do damage. I have occationally downshifted by blipping (technical term?) the throttle and tapping the shifter. It works well when entering a turn quickly and wanting higher RPM's. It was always so smooth that I never considered it being really bad for my bike. Perhaps I will stop. . . perhaps.

  -Anti 

Man, I hope folks aren't downshifting clutchless while entering turns. That's asking for a slide into whatever is ready to bash you up.

Keeping the proper gear engaged will make you smoother. That's what it's all about. If you think you _need_ to downshift to slow down, either your brakes are junk or you don't know what you're doing - either way you shouldn't be riding.

Gearing down (no crazy 8,000 rpm stuff) for redlights or stopsigns seems to get driver's attention for a 1/2 a second, so it may be a good thing. Make a little noise if you like. Just please don't start sliding the rear like a buffoon.

Quote from: The Antibody on August 19, 2007, 05:42:57 AM
Really DG? I never heard that it will do damage. I have occationally downshifted by blipping (technical term?) the throttle and tapping the shifter. It works well when entering a turn quickly and wanting higher RPM's. It was always so smooth that I never considered it being really bad for my bike. Perhaps I will stop. . . perhaps.

  -Anti 

If you do not know what you are doing, keep down shifting without a clutch and you will eventually see the damage. There is a lot more load on the transmission during downshifting from the engine and the rear wheel. The forks engagements are undercut and you have to over come this. They will wear and round over. Eventually you will have gears that will pop out under accelleration. Bent forks can happen during clutchless down shifts at high rpms.

There is no reason to downshift without the clutch, except for being too lazy to pull in the clutch. Upshifting without the clutch gains accelleration. If you are downshifting, then you are probably on the brakes too. Downshifting clutchless does not make you slow down any faster. That is what brakes are for. Cheaper to replace brake pads than a tranny.

   I had started clutch-less up shifting after it was recommended to me by some experienced racers at my local Drag Strip after a few of them noticed my miss-shift from first to second on a run, I've not miss-shifted ever since and shaved a little time off my run's. Its a good technique for those moments your accelerating as quick as you possibly can, but i still use the clutch when riding normal. And I'm sort of surprised nobody posted a link for one of these yet  http://www.exoticsportbike.com/muzzys_air_shifter.htm.  Oh and they only recommended up shifting clutch-less and said use the clutch when downshifting.  

Here's a pretty good previous thread on this topic.  Late in the discussion, VSG posted a link to this article, which I found really informative.  It gets pretty detailed, but the gist is: competent shifting sans clutch isn't hurting anything.

As for myself, I mostly use the clutch.    It's really about the same smoothness with or without,  except I find I"ve got to be pulling some decent delta-vee to get the clutchless to be smooth; shifting using the clutch can be smooth regardless.  So, since I'm still new to riding, I generally just stick with the clutch; it's less to think about.

But when I'm feeling Mr. Zoom Zoom Motor-Cycle Racer Man, I don't touch the clutch, and it's pretty fun.  You do get faster gear changes that way.

Im sort of in between. When up-shifting if im going round town i will use the clutch to full disengage drive and reengage in the new gear, only because its smoother and because i dont want to be screaming around at high rpm. When im out on fast roads upshifting i tap the clutch, so im only really moving it to the point of letting the clutch slip during my upchange. This is sort of inbetween clutch properly and clutchless (which incidentally is fine). I find if your going to go clutchless you have to be really nailing it, to get the smoothest shift. As the bikes you would clutchless shift on are usually high revving.

For downshifting i blip the throttle whilst changing down with the clutch, although with good practice of blipping and clutch control you will only ever need to go to the "slipping" the clutch stage rather than a full disengage and reengage.

I think it also serves to point out that downshifting from high rev's is harder and very unsmooth until you have good clutch control and the ability to blip the throttle. But clutch issues are much more noticable on high revving bikes.

Clutchless up-shift every time (smoooth), never when downshifting. Dunno how true it is, but have been told many times that if done properly it increases the life of the clutch without any damage to gearbox. Have done it that way for 20 years without killing a box (so far!)

99.99% of a clutch's wear is at take off's. This little bit of clutch releif isn't doing much of anything for it.
The transmission will get beaten up if you make any mistake.
The clutch is like $30-40, tranny is dunno, like $1500  ( a whole bike is 1500 ).
With full clutch riding except for ~3 miles X 2 when mine busted its cable, my 89 had a clutch that lived to 48K and lived to ride away with new owner. All clutch all the time, and your tranny will look like new at 48K. If you do shift well wihtout, more power to ya, but using the clutch for shifting isn't making any difference to its life.
Cool.
Srinath.