I have maxxis promaxx tires right now and I went out for a ride today.  I have a friend with a rebel 250 and I know my bike is faster than his.  I'm not wanting to do anything outside of my skill level as I am a rookie with only about 1500 miles on the clock, so don't think I'm trying to be a little squid or something.  I just don't know what more I can do to get my skill level up to the point of being able to lean it over a little more than I am now.  Is there some trick to it, or how far can you really take this bike with a 130/70/17?  The other part of the problem that is a possibility is that the previous owner has taken the bike mainly commuting so it looks as if its a brick.  The corners are nice and deep still, but there's a big flat spot on the back tire only.  Bike gods, chime in!!!

buy a new set of better than average sporty tars

night and day diff to old worn out shaZam!

you then can lean it over til you scrape metal parts

Practice MSF u-turns clockwise and counter-clockwise, then add 5mph and make a wider arc, then try to tighten up that arc.  Keep adding increments of 5mph (or kph, either or).  Look through the turn.  But, really, it's a comfort thing.

right on, That was one thing that I was wondering, if my friend on the rebel is just hairball with his riding style or what, but I feel like I'm doing everything right, and he's hard  to hang in there with.  I keep hearing of the wonderful handling that the gs has and it makes up for the lack of power and all that, but when  a rebel just kicks my butt in the twisties, something's gotta give.  All he has is cheng shin sport tires for his and they're brand new.  Do you really notice tires that much compared to old tires???

Yes, tires have a huge affect on handling.

Quote from: bombadillo on August 29, 2007, 09:14:47 PM
but when  a rebel just kicks my butt in the twisties, something's gotta give. 

Only, your ego  ...if you're wise.  Take baby steps; riders get themselves killed trying to emulate what they see in magazines and on TV.

BTW, I've extended the life of a flattened rear tire by rounding off the profile with a coarse file/wood rasp with the bike idling on the centerstand (exhaust fumes--wear a paint mask).  I read that tip in a magazine and I didn't get killed.

well, thanks for the help.  I have been looking at a 140/70/17 rear and 120/70/17 front in either avon av46 or a couple of other brands as well.  sport demons are on the list but pricy.  We'll see if they help.  If I still can't hang, then i'm just gonna take some more time.  As far as ego, I have as little as possible when it comes to stuff like this.  I've got too many people dead to count because of bikes!!!

Quote from: Gisser on August 29, 2007, 10:14:38 PM

Quote from: bombadillo on August 29, 2007, 09:14:47 PM
but when  a rebel just kicks my butt in the twisties, something's gotta give. 

Only, your ego  ...if you're wise.  Take baby steps; riders get themselves killed trying to emulate what they see in magazines and on TV.

BTW, I've extended the life of a flattened rear tire by rounding off the profile with a coarse file/wood rasp with the bike idling on the centerstand (exhaust fumes--wear a paint mask).  I read that tip in a magazine and I didn't get killed.

Quote from: bombadillo on August 29, 2007, 09:14:47 PM
right on, That was one thing that I was wondering, if my friend on the rebel is just hairball with his riding style or what, but I feel like I'm doing everything right, and he's hard  to hang in there with.  I keep hearing of the wonderful handling that the gs has and it makes up for the lack of power and all that, but when  a rebel just kicks my butt in the twisties, something's gotta give.  All he has is cheng shin sport tires for his and they're brand new.  Do you really notice tires that much compared to old tires???

1: Ask your friend to slow down. I've been on both sides of this question, and  if he says no ride with someone else. (Trust me on this)
2: The GS is a fat ugly pig until you do the front springs. I did straight rate racetechs, and they are awesome. (I went with the "racing" recommendation for my weight)
3: Yes. I flew on the Metzlers (I had the distinction of being one of the few GSers to drag the exhaust) but once I put on sport demons it was like a whole different world.

I built my confidence on a road I knew like my backyard (because it was...) The name of this road is Geiger Grade, the Ferrari club of America held races here for quite some time, and while a length in the neighborhood of only 25 miles makes it short it is an absolute blast and a world class et of twisties. (Now that I'm done waxing poetic, I have been bike-less for two weeks after all...)

Poke your toes off the pegs a bit. (Yada yada, bad idea, yada yada I know this road and was watching for hazards, I know what can happen.) Or better yet just take a wider stance on the pegs so the side of your boot hangs off.

Now go up and down and up and down and..... you get the picture. Gradually go a teensy bit faster and when you touch the side of you boot you know you're hauling tail, and you're not dragging and hard bits! (Remember closed course only, on the road you ride 20 mph under, and if the speed limit is 15 you have to push your bike backwards. While wearing full leathers. Two layers MINIMUM BTW too.)

In short, practice.

BUMP for scratch's post.


Parking lots and SLOW speeds make you more confident. The fast stuff is easy, and boring.

I get more of a rush from completing a super tight, flawless Uturn with pillion than dragging bits around a turn. I'm a little eccentric I've been told though...

Quote from: ohgood on August 30, 2007, 02:25:38 AM
BUMP for scratch's post.


Parking lots and SLOW speeds make you more confident. The fast stuff is easy, and boring.

I get more of a rush from completing a super tight, flawless Uturn with pillion than dragging bits around a turn. I'm a little eccentric I've been told though...

I'm with you... put me in a severe lean angle through a hard corner over a stand up wheelie any day.  Ride it, that's all you can do.  Everyone will tell you how to get better but it's a personal thing... Take it easy, get the feel for it and then, once you know your bike like it's an extension of yourself(corny, yes... but true) find your limit and push it a little bit.  Then once you're OK with that, a little more.  Stay safe, don't go over board(though it's easy to do) and before you know it you'll be keeping pace with the super sport bikes through a good set of twisties.

I drilled low speed parking lot turns until I was confident.  I was able to consistently scrape pegs at 10mph.  That made me feel much better at any speed.  I dropped a few times getting there.  But I was going 10.  Oh well.

Chuck said:

I drilled low speed parking lot turns until I was confident.  I was able to consistently scrape pegs at 10mph.  That made me feel much better at any speed.  I dropped a few times getting there.  But I was going 10.  Oh well.

Dude, now _that_ is some skill. Have you any videos or pictures of you doing maneuvers ?

I've only seen two people maneuver like that first person. One was at a HD event, another was a guy pulling through a gas station on a goldwing. The guy on the GW obviousely knew what he was doing. It almost looked like he was on rails !

Someday I'll be good. Until then I'll keep practicing. The wife comments sometimes when we're out. Nothing like a 'way to go baby!' in the middle of traffic.

Sorry, no vids.

It's really not that hard.  Get in your big empty lot and you can basically leave it leaned over as long as you want, driving around in dizzy circles.  Then just add more lean until you can't lean any more.

I didn't say I could make a peg scraping turn at 10mph any time or place I want.  Just that getting leaned over that much gave me confidence that such things are possible.

However one of my drills was to try to make a 90 degree turn on a parking space line in the within the length of a parking space.  (That may not have made sense.  Oh well.)  That takes significant lean unless you're hardly moving.  Do that 20 times and you'll feel much safer.

I did this when I was first learning how to ride because I didn't really feel that I could take off from an intersection and get turned in the lane I want without going way wide.  I eventually learned you could pretty much allow the bike to begin falling over, and then start riding to pick it back up and that results in the tightest turn you ever want to see.

Quote from: bombadillo on August 29, 2007, 07:47:03 PM
I have maxxis promaxx tires right now and I went out for a ride today.  I have a friend with a rebel 250 and I know my bike is faster than his.  I'm not wanting to do anything outside of my skill level as I am a rookie with only about 1500 miles on the clock, so don't think I'm trying to be a little squid or something.  I just don't know what more I can do to get my skill level up to the point of being able to lean it over a little more than I am now.  Is there some trick to it, or how far can you really take this bike with a 130/70/17?  The other part of the problem that is a possibility is that the previous owner has taken the bike mainly commuting so it looks as if its a brick.  The corners are nice and deep still, but there's a big flat spot on the back tire only.  Bike gods, chime in!!!

take a look at your rear tire after a few feel good turns, from the tire you can read at leas how far you went and still have to go to make the rear tire all black, one thing don't ever make any corection while doing a curve ( it can go much lower than you think ) braking front wile rise up the bike ( practice this in slow corners it wil give you more feel of the bike )
brakingrear can block the rear wheel don't have to tell you the result of that error.
probably your rebel Friend has some more experience than you, be carefull in trying to follow him, seen lots of accidents happen this way.
if your more confident know that your GS can get just as low as his rebel.
take care.

^^^  Thats the funny thing is that he isn't any more experienced than me.  We both went through the same intro courses together.  I typically do really well at driving courses, autocross, track racing and things like that, so thats what first led me to believe that it was a gear related problem.  It just doesn't feel very comfortable at speeds to lean it over.  It may be just me being a little under confident and him being over confident in the bike.  I never knew a rebel could handle so well though.  I am definitely going to practice some low speed parking lot cornering and see about leaning it over at maybe 15-20 miles per hour.  Some of the last ride we took was highway 36 and it has some 55-70 mph sweepers that he was scraping pegs on (not hard to do on a rebel) and I was having a heck of a time keeping up.  Thanks again for all the help though

just go easy...Maybe go out for a ride yourself...find some twisties to hit up...thats what i did....luckly where I live (luck in some unlucky in others) I live in a mountain town...twisties on every exit and entrance. So I ride them alot...i used to ride a little below the speed limit cuz i wasn't sure about the cornering...so like 35-40 mph....now sometimes i catch myself doing 70 mph in those places cuz I've gotten so comfortable with the corners.....So just go find you some corners and start out slow and slowly add a little speed each time....thats a good way to do it.

Tires really make a big difference.  Going from good (maybe 80% tread left) Pilot Roads (which most consider darn good tires for sporty-touring/commuting) to sticky race-inspired tires made a HUGE difference in my confidence at the track.  Same can be said for the jump from a Pilot Activ (which is a decent bias-ply, but nothing outstanding) on the rear of my GS to the Pilot Road.


Don't be too hard on yourself, lighter/smaller bikes are easier to thrash on in the corners than big bikes, hence why GS500s can keep up with even litre bikes in twisty stuff if the big bike's pilots aren't up to the task.



As somebody (I think it was Kevin Schwantz) states in the movie "Faster" which chronicles the '04 MotoGP season, "It's still 80% rider and only 20% bike."

how come when this guy said he has 1500 miles on his bike and he wants to lean farther, and go faster no one said...

Patience And Miles, the skill will follow.  CirclesCenter was the closest to hitting the nail on the head with saying "Learn a road well, and grow from there"


1500 miles is a drop in the bucket to what will hopefully be your lifelong riding career.  Some one who is a member of this board, that I respect very much and has taught me more than enough to save my life told me (and this is paraphrased) That "To impatiently proceed to be a great rider is to quickly proceed to put your life in danger".  Now, thats not to say that you shouldn't risk anything, but to ride above your skill level is fatal.  Thats not to say you can't ride without increasing your skills, but increase them slowly and consistently so as to minimize the dangers


The fact that your friend can out run you on a Rebel 250 means nothing.  The type of tire you or he runs means nothing.  Your friend might know the road better, he might be more comfortable on the bike, or have a better grasp of what his abilities are and are not.  The real developer of skill is not only patience and practice, but miles.   Parking lot practice is great, I try to attend several organized ones a year but we don't focus on U-Turns.  You aren't doing U-Turns when carving through a canyon, you're looking, leaning, and turning.... You're slowly rolling off the gas and applying brakes, and then accelerating past the apex and looking towards your next entry point.  There is no one single point to focus on to get the bike to do what you want, but rather a collective of talents and skills.  You can hone each of these skills individually and then group them together.

Cut some Tennis Balls in 1/2 (a 12 pack from Wal Mart is about 8 bucks) and set them up as guides in an empty parking lot.  Mark out a wide radius sweeper and run through it a few times.... Make sure you're looking through the corner, use the chin bar on your helmet as a guide (is it tapping your shoulder or near it?)  The great thing for this is, if you run the corner wide because you get spooked or you feel uncomfortable on your line, well you don't have oncoming traffic to worry about.

Put out a few balls in a row and practice braking smoothly.  Use the balls as reference points as where to start your braking and when to be done with it.  Don't let the bike suddenly dive down, and don't let the bike suddenly pop back up when you're done braking... ease on and off....  These sudden changes in the suspension character upset the chassis of the bike and make it feel less stable.

Start to add together your skills as you develop them.  As you learn to brake harder (and let off easier) without upsetting the bike, you can brake later, and maintain a higher speed going into your corner.  Learning to properly place your head by instinct going into a corner, choose the right line and aim for the apex is just a plain life saver that makes it safer and easier to go faster through corners.


Please, and I'm asking you this from the bottom of my soul, Don't chase some one down because you think your bike should be faster than their's.  Bikes aren't fast by themselves, it takes a good rider to take them there safely.

Well said Tragic!  Every time I ride, I'm thinking about my skills, focusing on looking through turns, shifting body weight, countersteering, etc.  I've been on my GS for four years and 12000 miles, and I'm STILL developing my skills.  I've been on group rides with other experienced riders that tell me how good my technique is and how 'fast' I am, and I'M STILL developing my skills.

It takes time, practice, training, patience, and experience to become a good rider.  Look at GSjack...I bet he STILL is developing his skills.  You can't, in my opinion, reach the level of 'skilled' like it's a plateau.  Skill is constantly developed and refined...there is ALWAY something you can improve.

Scraping hard parts, and being fast in turns is nice...getting to your destination in one piece, though, is much more important.

+1 on time and experience.  Like Tragic said, 1500 miles is a small amount of experiene...a new bike is just getting good and broken in at this point...why would the rider be any different?

Thanks for the well spoken words of advice from what sounds to be a well educated, confident rider.  Again I'll add that I don't want to ride outside of my ability, and thats why i'm asking about a few things at the same time.  I didn't know if it was a total combined issue of tires that look like a brick, my lack of skills as far as mountain riding goes, or just sheer stupidity of somebody elses part.  I know the road that I have been on very well as I used to go back and forth it for many summers twice a day for a camp that I worked at out there.  I definitely don't want to become a grease stain either thats why I took the msf course before even getting on a bike.  Now its going to be taking into practice and making habit of those thing spoken above by tragic.