In May I picked up a Kaw 650r as my first bike and both me and my GF took the MSF class then learned to ride on the 650.  She did good on it, never fell, never dropped it (almost but the bike is too tall for her and I was close at hand to take the weight from her) and generally felt comfortable on it.  She decided she wanted her own bike so I found a low milage GS500 for her.  SHE HATES the bike, I mean, to the point where she no longer wants to ride.  She's dropped it 3 times either while stopped or while just taking off, she has trouble not stalling it even when I adjusted the clutch lever to bring the pull closer to the bars, and she can't seem to get good balance on it.  Watching her come to a stop and put  her feet down on it is a scary sight.  Even turns on it are much wider, to the point where I'm pretty sure she'd be off roading it to do a U-turn on a 2 lane.

Throw her on the 650 and shes back to feeling confident and comfortable.  Now, I'll admit, there is a HUGE difference between the 2 bikes, the Ninja feels so stable I can literally come to a stop and balance it without dropping a foot for a second or 2 whereas I almost have to drop a foot immediately with the GS.  The brakes on the 650 either aren't as aggressive as the GS (doubtful) or the soft front fork of the GS causes them to lock quicker.  Even trying to come to a slow gradual stop the nose dives.  I can however get on it, adjust to it,  and ride it fine, even when coming off the 650. 

So I'm trying to find reasons as to why she would have trouble.  She did better with the GZ250 the MSF class had than with the GS so I know its not that she can only ride one bike setup.  I know the bike is too high for her and she would probably do better at not dropping it if I lowered it.  I know the front fork is ALOT softer than the 650 (650 uses a progressive spring with a rate of 105) but at low speeds in a parking lot this shouldn't be a major thing.  The 650 is FI, the GS is carb'd so she now has to worry about stalling more.  The other important factor is one I noticed the other day when starring at the bike, the rear tire on it is completely wrong.  Someone installed a 130/90/17 on it so now the ass is raised higher than the front, forcing body weight onto the bars and messing with the geometry of the bike.  The 130/90 gives an inch more sidewall and 2" more outside diameter adding height to the rear.  I'd like to get a properly sized tire on it but I'm having a hard time finding a 130/70/17 locally.

All of these are things I can fix but I don't want to spend another $300 on the bike only to find they didn't help.  My idea was to bring the bike close to stock geometry first.  Either find an OE BT45R or maybe find a 150/60 if I can't.  That should at least set the ride height and weight balance where it should be.  Second step would be to lower the rear of the bike so she can flatfoot when stopped to handle the weight better.  Unless the stock tire size lowers it enough that is.  After that I assume I'd probably get a set of progressive springs and some 15w fluid to firm up the front. 

Money is very tight currently since the local economy seems to have died here in the past month so I don't want to throw away money unnecessarily.  The bike is a 95 with 6000 miles that I paid a bit too much for.  $1400 didn't seem too bad, but now that I think I may have to put another $300 into it and hope it fixes it it seems I overpaid alot.  I'd like anyones opinion on the problem or comment on my possible solutions, or just anything that might make her happier riding the bike so I don't lose money if I have to sell it.

Next time, let her ride the bike before you buy it.  No point in doing anyone a favor if they're going to hate you afterward.  Sounds like she's just suffering from bike envy tho.  Tell her to spend the money doing the mods on the GS to get it up to "her" standards.  If she doesn't like that, then tell her buy her own bike.

The progressives will help a lot and I would try Kenda 671 Krusiers.They are a great commuter tires,cheap and made in stock sizes.I really wouldn't lower the rear.The tire will contact the inner wheel well under the seat on hard bumps.

GS should be the easiest bike to ride....

Something doesn't sound right. Is it a possibility that the frame is bent? Seems like the bike shouldn't be that unstable coming to a stop. I can understand the soft springs and a little bit of diving if too much brake is grabbed. You should be able to roll to a stop with no stability issues like you are describing. Might be something to check into. Good luck and hope things turn out ok. Ride safe.

Even when my bike was stock , it handled better than so many bikes ,and stopped easy , doesnt sound right to me either

Bent Axle's
Broken Bearings ?
Tire Pressure
Fork Seals
Fork Oil?

Should have a good look over that

Could be the GS is damaged.  That's one angle.  Here's another angle.

If you want some advice about how to keep a girlfriend...   LET HER RIDE YOUR DAMN BIKE.  I mean seriously, if she's comfortable on it, and it's the only way she doesn't fall all over the place, what kind of crappy boyfriend are you?

Meanwhile, be a man, ride the GS and really try to figure out what's wrong with it, instead of leaving her with the second-rate probably-damaged hand-me-down.

OR... if she was a decent GF she'd buy YOU a new bike and take your old one...  Like mine 

Stock GS500 handles quite nicely and I doubt there's anything seriously wrong with yours.  Sounds like your gal is short and having trouble reaching the ground, can cause problems starting and stopping for a new rider.

Your right about the 130/90 rear tire being too tall, I had a couple on GS500s when I wanted to run touring type tires for milage and the GS's already near sportbike steering head angle is further steepened with the tall rear tire.  I found the bike quicker steering with the 130/90, even a bit twitchy at times depending on the front tire type.  Get a 130/70 rear first, nothing wrong with the 671 Kenda suggested and it can be bought online for about $50 plus shipping.  There are many choices in decent inexpensive tires for a new rider not burning up the twisties yet.

Pre 01 GS's need to be reved up and the clutch slipped to get them moving from a stop, a change from a 16 to a 15T front sprocket can help this.  Should be less than $20 locally for a front sprocket.  Should help the stalling problem along with a slightly higher idle speed.

I put some lowering links on my 02 GS mostly to keep the seat height a bit below standard when running 140/80 and 150/70 sport touring radials.  Just lowered it about 1 1/4" and it worked out nicely.  Paid less than $60 for the links and put them on myself.  You can even make your own as others here have done if your handy at such things.

Get the tire first and go from there.  If you want to stick to major brands, the Avon Roadriders and the BT45 G spec 130/70 made for the GSs are probably the best buys now.  Can be had for $70-80 locally here or also online.

Also check the steering stem and make sure it's tight.Put the bike on the center stand,shift your weight back until the front tire is off the ground.Grab the bars and push fore and aft.If there's play simple snugg down the stem nuts.Loose stem can cause shake on hard stops.Watch her and see if she is using the rear brake along with the front.That helps keep the front from hitting bottom.Hope this helps.

Just a quick update.  I  ordered a properly sized rear tire (130/70/16) and the shop got it yesterday.  I decided to take the bike for a short ride before bringing it in for the tire change so I had a good comparison.  On the short ride I felt like my weight was being forced onto my hands and the bike wanted to nosedive under even normal braking conditions.  It also felt twitchy around 60mph, I could feel an unsteadyness in the bars.

With the new tire on the rear, its a night and day difference.  The bike is leveled and the weight is off my hands quite a bit.  The bike no longer nose dives under normal braking (I will be changing the front springs still though,) and it feels more solid at speeds than it did.  Shes got the flu so she hasn't gone for a ride yet, but she did do a stand over of the bike and was able to touch the ground and control the weight of the bike better leaning it from side to side.

There was such a size difference in the tires that the bike shop called me about 30 minutes after I dropped the bike off and asked me if I was sure about the tire size I ordered (I went to a Honda dealership .5 miles from my house since I have a friend there).  One of their techs had taken the bike for a ride before and after and agreed that the change in tire size made a huge difference in the characteristics of the bike. 

Quote from: IN_DET on October 06, 2007, 08:42:25 PM
Just a quick update.  I  ordered a properly sized rear tire (130/70/16) and the shop got it yesterday.  I decided to take the bike for a short ride before bringing it in for the tire change so I had a good comparison.  On the short ride I felt like my weight was being forced onto my hands and the bike wanted to nosedive under even normal braking conditions.  It also felt twitchy around 60mph, I could feel an unsteadyness in the bars.

With the new tire on the rear, its a night and day difference.  The bike is leveled and the weight is off my hands quite a bit.  The bike no longer nose dives under normal braking (I will be changing the front springs still though,) and it feels more solid at speeds than it did.  Shes got the flu so she hasn't gone for a ride yet, but she did do a stand over of the bike and was able to touch the ground and control the weight of the bike better leaning it from side to side.

There was such a size difference in the tires that the bike shop called me about 30 minutes after I dropped the bike off and asked me if I was sure about the tire size I ordered (I went to a Honda dealership .5 miles from my house since I have a friend there).  One of their techs had taken the bike for a ride before and after and agreed that the change in tire size made a huge difference in the characteristics of the bike. 

Are you sure they didn't call you because you ordered a 16 inch tire for a 17 inch wheel?  J/K.....kind of.

Doh, you're right, 17".  I just replaced the rear tires on my car today and they are 16" so I guess that stuck in my head.  The tire I got was a 17 and I knew that, I just had a brain fart when I posted.

I would of never guessed a tire would have cause such a major difference in the bike. hope she enjoys it 

Quote from: CndnMax on October 06, 2007, 10:10:06 PM
I would of never guessed a tire would have cause such a major difference in the bike. hope she enjoys it 

It must have decreased the trail too much having the 130/90 on the back.  I guess anyways, I don't know a whole lot about that stuff.

I just began riding today and noticed the same problem you were talking about; I stalled all the damn time, and was getting very very frustrated.

On the old nighthawk 250 I learned on, i would begin to roll the throttle and release the clutch at the same time, got off every time without a hitch. With the GS, I have to keep the engine revving and slowly slip the clutch slowly. Took more than 1 crazy start because the bike would choke up after  I took off.

It's the one aspect of the bike that scares me, and will take a lot of practice to make natural. I can understand why the transition would be so aggravating. I'm beginning to think stalling mid-turn is what caused me to low side. 

Other than that, though, I've got no complaints.

Quote from: warpzone on October 06, 2007, 11:46:32 PM
I just began riding today and noticed the same problem you were talking about; I stalled all the damn time, and was getting very very frustrated.

On the old nighthawk 250 I learned on, i would begin to roll the throttle and release the clutch at the same time, got off every time without a hitch. With the GS, I have to keep the engine revving and slowly slip the clutch slowly. Took more than 1 crazy start because the bike would choke up after  I took off.

It's the one aspect of the bike that scares me, and will take a lot of practice to make natural. I can understand why the transition would be so aggravating. I'm beginning to think stalling mid-turn is what caused me to low side. 

Other than that, though, I've got no complaints.

bump up your idle a bit higher, thats what they do in the msf course to help out the new people.

From what I could tell, the reason the tire made such a difference is because it shifted the weight to the nose of the bike.  a 130/90 is 2" in diameter larger than stock so it raised the back of the bike an inch but it looked and felt like more than that.  I know on most bikes if you drop the front end down without lowering the rear you have the same effect; twitchy front end, nose diving under braking, etc.  The front fork already had weight on it, preloading the springs, so when you had to stop the forks were already slightly compressed causing a nosedive.  It rained today so I didn't get a chance to take it for a good ride, but the first sunny day this week I'll be out on it.

My first thought= agree with above post and also what you realized about your weight being on your hands. Both of those factors, the raised rear end changing the front end geometry, and the extra weight from LEANING on the bars = a very much harder to steer front end. You really can't do a tight circle that way. Weight on the bars, especially if there are stiff elbows invloved, makes you fight your own body and affects (stiffens) steering input, sometimes drastically. Sitting back, with a little roundness to the back especially if short, with a bend in the elbows and one's weight dropped into the seat makes for very light steering input and a calm and responsive front end, especially with aftermarket springs in the forks instead of stock. Have her try gripping the tank lightly with her knees at first to help remember to stay off the bars, it adds more tension in the abdominals which keeps the back in the correct and comfortable position... quite a difference in the feel of the bike to the rider, and the handling. 
Also proper tire pressure and good tires help a LOT.

I actually noticed the complete opposite after riding my friends ninja 650r regarding stability.  My GS feels very stable and nuetral through the turns.  I rode my friends 650r and I kept thinking he had a flat tire or something, the slightest touch to the steering made the bike feel like it wanted to fall over.... my friend said he noticed the same thing when he first got the 650r but he got used to it.   As far as smooth take-offs, I will give the nod to the ninja.  The fuel injected ninja felt smoother when taking off and accelerating.  I learned to just slip the clutch a bit more and give more throttle for a smooth take off on the GS.