Okay, so a couple weeks ago, I installed some 89 clip-ons. i.e. this thread -->http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38562.msg432970#msg432970

Anyway, I finally got the new clutch and throttle cable in. The clutch works perfectly, really smooth (well, as perfectly as it can when the bike isn't moving). Now, the bike won't start at all. It turns over, and over, and over, and over. You get the idea.  Sometimes (three times in 5 minutes) it'll backfire and shoot a 6" flame out the tailpipe. It's really loud, especially inside. I've tried it with choke, without choke, on prime, on reserve, on "on". Whatever, it doesn't work.

I'll mention that once I put the clip-ons on the bike, the bike would not start unless you sprayed ether into it. Then, it would idle at 7000 without stop.

I know I should be looking for fuel, spark and compression, but I don't have any (real) tools at my college place and was looking for a point in a specific direction.

Thanks for your help guys.

That's interesting...  It ran fine before?

Check to see if you're getting a spark.  In a shady area, remove one of the plugs and ground it out on the frame or engine.  Motor the engine over and check for a spark.  The spark should be white or blue in color.

If you have a spark, check to see if the choke is sticking.  Push the choke plunger slide towards the carbs.  Was it stuck partially on?

If that doesn't do it, check to see if the throttle is contacting the idle stop.  Releasing the throttle from 1/4 open, you should hear a sharp "click" as the throttle stop contacts the idle screw.

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 05, 2007, 04:48:49 PMI know I should be looking for fuel, spark and compression

Good approach!  I can't imagine that anything you've done would have affected the compression, so let's concentrate on the other two for now.

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 05, 2007, 04:48:49 PMIt turns over, and over, and over, and over. [...] Sometimes (three times in 5 minutes) it'll backfire and shoot a 6" flame out the tailpipe.

This tells me that you're getting a spark at least 3 times in 5 minutes.    There may be plenty of fuel coming through, or just enough for that spark to light up ... hard to tell yet whether the fuel or the spark is the limiting factor.  The first thing I would do is the spark test that GeeP described.  Something like this...



... but if the spark plug will dangle in the right position without you holding it (touching the cooling fins, but not right next to the spark plug hole) so much the better! 

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 05, 2007, 04:48:49 PM[...] once I put the clip-ons on the bike, the bike would not start unless you sprayed ether into it. Then, it would idle at 7000 without stop.

Hmmmm, almost contradictory-seeming symptoms. 


Well, let's keep things simple for starters.  Let us know how the spark test comes out (for each plug) and we'll go from there.  It's too bad you don't have any tools, etc.  You could make your very own spark checker unit and avoid the whole "Am I gonna get shocked?" question.   



If this is a concern at all, most car parts stores should have some kind of "real" (but similarly simple) spark tester tool you can buy.

Kerry and GeeP, you two are always so helpful!

I honestly think that the spark plugs are fouled from being flooded or something. Problem is, I don't even have a spark plug socket for the bike, only ones for my car. I have a friend coming over tonight to help me poke around at it. If we can't get it running, I know a guy who works at the dealer and he's offered to trailer it to his house and he promised to get it running by Monday.

Hey, but on the upside, the clutch is really easy to pull now!

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 06, 2007, 09:42:25 AM
Kerry and GeeP, you two are always so helpful!

Awwww, shucks!   

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 06, 2007, 09:42:25 AMProblem is, I don't even have a spark plug socket for the bike, only ones for my car.

If your bike doesn't have an under-the-seat toolkit (which should contain a "socket" for removing the plugs) you can also use a regular 18mm wrench.  Of course, how many people have an 18mm wrench lying around?

I think we both feel that a GS owner should have a good understanding of the GS and be unafraid to work on it.   

You can also use an 18mm deep socket.  However, when the plug breaks free it is possible to crack the insulator on the end of the plug if you're not being careful.  A deep socket has no provision for preventing the socket wall from coming in contact with the insulator.  If you plan to replace the plugs, this is moot.  New plugs are available from your local auto parts store.

That's a nicely made spark tester Kerry, I need to make one for myself.  I've been zapped one too many times.  Ironically, the one that hurt the most was when the wire bot slipped off the plug on my 3 HP Briggs lawnmower.  It actually knocked me on my butt.   

Okay, before I start testing the spark plugs, I have a question.

If one is covered in white and the other covered in brown, is that a bad sign? I'm pretty sure that means that one of the cylinders is either lean or rich.

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 08, 2007, 09:15:46 AM
[...] one is covered in white and the other covered in brown [...] I'm pretty sure that means that one of the cylinders is either lean or rich.

And ... you would be right. 

Check out this [spark plug chart] from the Haynes manual.

Okay, so that's not good. How can I remedy the situation? Btw, I cleaned the plugs and still no start. I'll have to check and see if they are even firing next. I'm getting a friend to do that, I really, really don't want to get shocked.

(If you can't tell, I normally don't do engine work. Suspension, brakes, interior and the like on my car are all the mechanical work I've done.)

Hi there,
Since you describe the problem as happening after you installed the clip-ons, my feeling is that maybe there is a wire, such as a kill switch wire on the right handlebar control, that is shorting out, causing the no-spark problem.
I would try bypassing the kill switch for a moment by disconnecting the kill switch wires, running a wire between the two wires that normally plug into the kill switch, then start the bike. This will BYPASS the switch on the handlebars so it is not getting power and is not actually able to shut the engine off.
If it starts and runs fine, then the problem is the kill switch, which can be delicate.
You can turn the bike off and on with the ignition key of course.
Then I'd fix or replace the kill switch assembly.
It's easy to check and will tell you if it is working properly.
When doing repairs, always go back to what you just were working on if something stops working.
Good luck and let us know what happens after you check this.
Best wishes,
Todd

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 08, 2007, 03:43:43 PMI really, really don't want to get shocked.

I guess you could use any number of things to keep from getting shocked:
    * Salad tongs
    * Toast tongs
    * Chopsticks
    * You get the idea

All you're trying to do is get some of the metal on the plug (the threaded part, ideally) to touch some metal on the bike.
    * Bike on sidestand or centerstand
    * Shift to NEUTRAL
    * Kill switch on RUN

    * Remove plug, reconnect the plug wire
    * Ignition ON
    * Hold plug against the engine or frame
    * Have a friend pull the clutch IN and push the starter button
    * Note the presence (and COLOR) of the spark.  Also note (the
       2nd time around) whether the engine "runs" better on one
       plug versus the other.
    * Ignition OFF
    * Reinstall plug
    * Repeat for other plug

    * Report back 

Before all of these changes the bike ran and idled fine , Yes?

I would check your throttle cable at the carb end again ( as GeeP said in your other thread )also You said something about a mixture setting ( i assume you mean the idle adjuster under and between the carbs). If you have the cable adjusted too far in it's holding the throttle open. Also if your idle adjuster is set in too far it holds the throttle plates open too.

With it running at 7k after it starts on starting fluid it makes me think throttle is way open or you have a super lean condition... (See end of message..)

Charge the battery up ( after all that cranking without running ...the battery is likely down..) make sure the cable is where it needs to be. Get a set of fresh plugs as was said before too. They can get gas fouled fairly quickly ( you can clean them...but plugs are cheap..).

And I am repeating TRW here...but like he said.....

When doing repairs, always go back to what you just were working on if something stops working.

Your bike is a 1992...right? Check your intake boots/manifolds that bolt to the engine. If one of those are cracked-it will be giving you a HUGE air leak and a lean condition.

I had a GS that ran poorly when I got it... cleaned the carbs/put evrything right and it would be hard to start then go right to 6000 rpms when it did. I had damaged one of the intakes while taking the carbs off/ reisnstalling them.

  With you having just taken the carbs off and on- You disturbed them and could have possibly damaged one ( old heat /fuel /time hardened rubber...).They are maybe 18-20$ each if I recall correctly.

Good luck.

Okay, we have spark, we have compression. We also have a lot a fuel. The choke seems to be stuck open, essentially flooding the engine. In trying to fix it, the cable snapped at the adjuster near the bars. (Yay old shaZam!!)

Here's a question: the spring that holds the choke cable at the carb end on my bike seems REALLY REALLY weak. I'm pretty sure that it's not doing anything. Should I pick up a new one of those while I'm buying a new choke cable?

I'm going to take it to a friend's house this weekend (he builds race bikes) and have him work on it, maybe I'll try and get him to synch my carbs too.

I have a good feeling that it'll be running by Monday.

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 09, 2007, 07:34:01 AM
Okay, we have spark, we have compression. We also have a lot a fuel. The choke seems to be stuck open, essentially flooding the engine. In trying to fix it, the cable snapped at the adjuster near the bars. (Yay old shaZam!!)

Here's a question: the spring that holds the choke cable at the carb end on my bike seems REALLY REALLY weak. I'm pretty sure that it's not doing anything. Should I pick up a new one of those while I'm buying a new choke cable?

AHAH!  That makes sense.

The spring is very small, it doesn't provide much tension.  That's normal. 

Can I run a bike without a choke cable? I'm assuming yes.

Parts take a week to get and it's getting cold quick...

Quote from: mullethunter3 on November 09, 2007, 12:39:40 PM
Can I run a bike without a choke cable?

Sure ... but you may need to pull the choke slider over yourself to get the bike to start in the cold.  Not sure how you'll do that with one hand on the clutch lever and the other one pushing the Start button.... 

Baling wire?   

It works!!!! 

I trucked the bike over to my friend's house and he used his magic on it. Literally, he didn't do anything but start it. He checked if there was still gas in the carbs, he hooked up a battery charger (it was pretty much dead by the time he got to it) and cranked it over. No joke. Right now, I'm running no choke cable, but it's fine, it'll be in in about a week.

So, I have no idea what was wrong, but this bike definitely has "character".

Oh, and since I got a new throttle cable, the bike doesn't rev when the bars are turned right. Very nice! 

Oh, and I broke the replacement visor on my helmet. Fix one thing break another...