Quote from: jserio on March 14, 2008, 08:25:08 PM
as i've stated in previous posts, i'd like for there to be a "none of the above" place on our ballots. f%$k, maybe i should vote for nader. damn. isn't that pathetic? if we vote mccain, well, we will still stay in iraq and the economy will still be shaZam!. if we  vote for either dem then well, we may loose our guns and we'll become f%$king pansies in the eyes of our global friends/enemies. shaZam!. can i be president?

jserio, the wisest girl I've ever met told me the same thing - she wants to see a "none of the above" option as well on the ballots because this situation arises almost every election - we're forced to choose between two terrible options.

I would really like to hear your opinion about this, because I've mentioned it to you before: I advocate approval voting (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38394.msg441913#msg441913), or "choose one or more candidates you approve of."  This allows more candidates to be on the ballot with no chance of a spoiler effect.  You can vote for your favorite candidate, even if they're not viable, and still cast a vote for that "lesser evil" candidate who has a better chance of winning.  The reason I disagree with "none of the above" in a purely plurality voting system is that if 20% of the people in the country vote "none of the above", the candidate they thought of as the "lesser evil" is punished provided either of the candidates gets more than 20% of the votes.  Your "none of the above" vote, unless enough people agree with you, helps elect the candidate you despise most.

And I prioritize my issues, since no candidate is likely to agree with me on all of them.  I don't think either McCain or Obama is going to infringe upon the right to bear arms, certainly not to bear arms on your private property.  Bill Clinton pushed for the federal assault weapons ban with Hillary Clinton strongly supporting it, which ought to be enough reason to conclude that she's not the one you want.  Obama has said some things but I think he has many other things on his mind before he's going to worry about gun control.  Has he mentioned gun control in a single speech this campaign season?  I certainly haven't heard it.  What I have heard is pushing for transparency and accountability in government, a sane foreign policy, and a strong economy.

okay...where to start? where do i stand on important issues? first and foremost issue has to be the economy. and i feel alot of things have an effect on our ecconomy. now, i'm not an economics major and i may tend to be a tad off on some facts and opinions but here's my thinking.  illegal immigration is a problem. it needs worked on. i do believe we need "migrant" workers. say for example the farmer who can't afford the newest harvesting eqipment? i'm sure he'd enjoy getting some cheap labor together. but it shouldn't come at an expense to the rest of the country. make sure they are only here when they are needed. i do feel they take jobs from americans. i know we have some lazy folks in this country but i also know there are many, many people who cannot find work simply because comapnaies are hiring cheap labor. i feel this is wrong. companies who are so worried about their bottom line that they close down factories here and ship them to china where crappy products get produced hurts the american economy also i feel.  we should focus on creating jobs in america. putting money back into the american consumer's pockets. which in turn should boost our economy. it's simple i think. the more money you have, the more you spend. also at the top of the list is the war in Iraq. we should leave. i don't think it should be an immediate all out "retreat". but it should be a swift, systematic, orderly withdrawl. we have taken the dictator out of power and shown the Iraquis the "ropes" for democracy. let them figure out the finer points on their own. healtcare is an important issue as well. costs need to be cut somewhere. that money that is saved should be passed on directly to the consumer. it is expensive to insure your family today. i've heard many people scream that taxes are a major priority. i only partly agree. i see taxes as a necessary evil. we need taxes to fund certain things. however, if you want to decrease the taxes, first you much decrease your spending. once you realize you're spending less than your making, then you have the funds and abilty to actually give the consumer a tax break. the right to bear arms is always a heated debate. it is a right, along with many others in our constitution, that needs to be upheld. as for what you've called "approval voting". let me get this straight, you think we should be allowed to "pencil in" any cadidate we choose?  i am thinking maybe we should do away with our two party system. i think it creates more problems than it solves. i've heard on so many issues that many of our elected officials will vote against an item simply because the "other party" are the ones behind it. this is absurd. we are all americans. we should be working together for the strengthening and unification of our great country. we should be trying to improve our overall well being. we should work together for the overall progress and advancement of our nation. if i've skipped a topic that is dear to you, let me know. we can discuss it as adults. ask me how i feel on any subject and i'll be more than happy to discuss it with you. we may not see eye to eye but that's okay. it's gonna happen like that from time to time. we just have to learn to agree to disagree. 

oh, and if you're wondering, i don't consider myself a member of any political party. 

anyone can, if they got enough money, and can tell enough bullshit stories to keep the us listening. theyre all like used car salesman, they wont quit, until you leave with teh car.

my wife told me once i'd make a good sales person. you think that was a compliment? 

Quote from: jserio on March 15, 2008, 11:13:40 PM
okay...where to start? where do i stand on important issues? first and foremost issue has to be the economy. and i feel alot of things have an effect on our ecconomy. now, i'm not an economics major and i may tend to be a tad off on some facts and opinions but here's my thinking.  illegal immigration is a problem. it needs worked on. i do believe we need "migrant" workers. say for example the farmer who can't afford the newest harvesting eqipment? i'm sure he'd enjoy getting some cheap labor together. but it shouldn't come at an expense to the rest of the country. make sure they are only here when they are needed. i do feel they take jobs from americans. i know we have some lazy folks in this country but i also know there are many, many people who cannot find work simply because comapnaies are hiring cheap labor. i feel this is wrong. companies who are so worried about their bottom line that they close down factories here and ship them to china where crappy products get produced hurts the american economy also i feel.  we should focus on creating jobs in america. putting money back into the american consumer's pockets. which in turn should boost our economy. it's simple i think. the more money you have, the more you spend. also at the top of the list is the war in Iraq. we should leave. i don't think it should be an immediate all out "retreat". but it should be a swift, systematic, orderly withdrawl. we have taken the dictator out of power and shown the Iraquis the "ropes" for democracy. let them figure out the finer points on their own. healtcare is an important issue as well. costs need to be cut somewhere. that money that is saved should be passed on directly to the consumer. it is expensive to insure your family today. i've heard many people scream that taxes are a major priority. i only partly agree. i see taxes as a necessary evil. we need taxes to fund certain things. however, if you want to decrease the taxes, first you much decrease your spending. once you realize you're spending less than your making, then you have the funds and abilty to actually give the consumer a tax break. the right to bear arms is always a heated debate. it is a right, along with many others in our constitution, that needs to be upheld. as for what you've called "approval voting". let me get this straight, you think we should be allowed to "pencil in" any cadidate we choose?  i am thinking maybe we should do away with our two party system. i think it creates more problems than it solves. i've heard on so many issues that many of our elected officials will vote against an item simply because the "other party" are the ones behind it. this is absurd. we are all americans. we should be working together for the strengthening and unification of our great country. we should be trying to improve our overall well being. we should work together for the overall progress and advancement of our nation. if i've skipped a topic that is dear to you, let me know. we can discuss it as adults. ask me how i feel on any subject and i'll be more than happy to discuss it with you. we may not see eye to eye but that's okay. it's gonna happen like that from time to time. we just have to learn to agree to disagree. 

I was actually just asking about your opinion on approval voting, but I'm glad you've chose to discuss more.

On illegal immigration: I say, go after the employers who are paying people under the table (less than minimum wage, no taxes) and fine them.  If the employers have to pay minimum wages, they're more likely to hire American workers if they're available.  And if they do hire illegals, at least those illegals will be paying taxes into the system.  It takes two people to allow an illegal employment situation, and everyone wants to go after the side that's hard to pin down - the employee.

War in Iraq: agree.

health care: agree.  I actually think Kucinich's health care suggestions made the most sense.  He wants health insurance to be a non-profit industry.  Not health care - let doctors make a fair market wage the same as they do today - but health insurance.  Think about it - how do HMOs improve medical care?  They're only there to collect payments from the employer/individual and then pay out when a procedure is needed.  Why should they be incorporated and thus forced to maximize shareholder profit at all costs - including refusing to pay for certain procedures?  How does their profit improve the quality of health care or quality of life in America?  OK, fine, the health insurance industry has many employees and is a large sector of the economy.  But I don't believe Kucinich is advocating removing them altogether; he just wants to force them to become non-profit entities so their focus is on providing care and not withholding care to make money.  Any jobs lost would be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money saved by the average insured citizen who could now receive a better standard of care for less.  The current situation amounts to the broken window fallacy - "a loss helps the economy". 

approval voting: Yes - this is exactly what I'm saying.  This system has been used for centuries, it is currently in use to select the UN Attorney General, and since 1976 it has been subject to increasing amounts of academic scrutiny as it was "rediscovered" by professors at Northwestern and NYU.  The alternative - getting rid of the 2 party system - would be difficult.  We can't even force them to open up the debate system, how are you going to get rid of them entirely?  It would be preferable to change the voting system to allow the people to "vote the bums out" entirely if that's what they want.

In addition to this, if you want someone who's been bipartisan in the past, I think McCain or Obama are your best bets.  I prefer Obama myself because he's in favor of withdrawal from Iraq, but both have published several bills with members of the other party in the past few years. http://factbeat.com/get_story.php?id=263  Obama is also saying much more in terms of unity, especially compared with Clinton.  Clinton would obviously be a massively polarizing candidate, but given Obama's poll numbers with independents and Republicans I don't think you can say the same thing about him.  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0314obamamar14,0,7185898.story

Quote from: jserio on March 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
my wife told me once i'd make a good sales person. you think that was a compliment? 

perhaps, my thinking was along the lines of politicians