So I put all the side covers back on and I'm going to start tearing out the head.  I haven't done much work internally with engines, I'm more of a bolt-on or turbocharging kind of guy (i've built two turbocharged civics and torn apart countless turbocharged mistubishi eclipse's) but with the engine seized I'm not really worried about breaking anything!  But at this point I'm looking for any tips or things to check!

I just ordered my manual through the link to amazon, so I can quit using the excuse I don't have a manual!

But here are some more pics:

Front Cam:


Rear Cam:


Top View of Cams:


Cams Removed:


And finally.........BATTLE WOUNDS!


It was so very hard not to give the finger to the camera, but alas, maturity prevails.

Nick

The tabs on the clutch basket.I didn't have those on mine.Once you remove the head post a pic of the inside of the cylinders before you pull it from the case.

Here is a picture of the cylinder walls.  Remeber that I sprayed PB Blaster in the spark plug holes hoping that something was just rusted to the walls and it would help free it up.  One cylinder still has liquid in it, the other does not!

Left Cylinder (chain side)







Right Cylinder (non-chain side)







Anybody got some suggestions?

Thanks,

Nick

Yech... that's brutal 

edit:
What did the inside of the head look like? You've come this far, keep going! 

By the way, thanks for the detailed photo record of your tear-down!

Here is the bottom half of the head:

View of the entine head (exhaust side facing down):


Right side (non-chain side)


Left Side (chain side)



what is the best procedure to get the cylinder walls out?  I don't have a manual yet and I've just been winging it and taking pictures as I go!  Anyone have any ideas what would cause this kind of nasty insides?

Thanks,

Nick

Quote from: utgunslinger13 link=topic=41982.msg473941#msg473941
what is the best procedure to get the cylinder walls out?  I don't have a manual yet and I've just been winging it and taking pictures as I go! 

Normally you just lift the block. In your case, because of the rust build up, you probably want to clean up the rust flakes as best to can prior to lifting the block. I wouldn't scrape at it, just try to remove the loose flakes that will make a mess later.



When you get the cylinder block off, stuff some rags around the connecting rods to prevent pieces from falling into the lower end.

Quote
Anyone have any ideas what would cause this kind of nasty insides?

I guess it had water sitting in the engine for years. Maybe it was stored outside, uncovered, and without sparkplugs?

Dude, I can not get this thing to budge!  Unfortunately I don't have a rubber mallet so I tried to pry with a breaker bar beteween the bottom fin and the case and broke a portion of the fin off!    Any suggestions on getting it to pop free?  I tried to spray some PB Blaster where the cylinders meet the case but I don't think that'll help.

Here is the new "Engine Stand" I bought:




Here is the part of the fin I broke off:




I guess if needed I will go buy a rubber mallet, but any suggestions?  I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE things being stuck!

That bike has sat in the rain,probably with the plugs out or the carbs open to the air.

I had that in my GR last year ... tap the pistons down with a small wooden dowel, like the handle of a mallet. That will usually get it moving and get it freed up. BTW you prolly can hone it and hand gap 1/2 over pistons and rings and get it nice and new ...
The head is nearly in great shape. Clean everything, new seals and new 3 angle job and fit back on. most car engine shops will do it, if you can give them instructions. I got one shop that did my GR, my savage etc ... just walk in there with a box of donuts and the next 3-4 hours they do what you say ... 
Cool.
Buddha.

I got the cylinder freed from the case but can't seem to get it to move 1/8 of an inch up.  What is the easiest way if the pistons are rusted to the wall to break them free?

Soaking with PB Blaster and time.Try to move it a few times a day and keep it lubed.

It should be pulled straight up, you also can do the PB blaster or other penetratant.
Cool.
Buddha.

Well I am notorious for starting something and not stopping till its on my terms and not that something is stuck!  So I kept prying and pulling, and using a breaker bar and hammer and POP! The cylinder wall came off!  The left piston (chain side), the one that was ugly orange colored with the nasty spark plug was rusted to the side!  I tugged on the chain and the crank rotated!

So now I need to find some place to take the cylinder walls and have them honed/straightened.  I have never done anything like this so I have no clue where to go or how to find a good shop!  Any suggestions?

And of course, I wouldn't leave you without pics!

Ther are FREE!!!!!! 


This is the chain side piston, it was rusted to the wall:




This is the chain side cylinder wall:






This is the right side piston, it was not rusted:





This is the right side cylinder, it was not rusted:



Top View, definetly needs cleaned up!




You gotta love the work space!

Here is an idea.  http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=14401.0

I recently checked and the pistons are still available.

Congrats!    I do love the ghetto workspace... especially the TV where the beer fridge should be 

Search the yellow pages for a local machine shop; cylinder honing is pretty standard. The rust looks bad enough that they may have to bore the cylinders, which would require new (oversized) pistons. Your pistons look to be in rough shape, so that's not such a bad thing!

At a minimum, you will need to replace the wrist pins (15), circlips (16), oversized piston & piston rings (17?), etc.



I think #17 is an 0.5 oversized piston and ring set, but you will have to check with the dealer (and check with your machinist to see if this will work). I think you're supposed to buy the pistons and bring them to the machinist so that he can custom bore the cylinders to match.

Get it all priced out and then decide if its worthwhile, compared to the cost of a replacement engine. Based on Mr. Cycles for reference, it looks like approx $160 + taxes + machine work


This all assumes that the rest of the engine is not damaged (crankshaft bearings, etc). Given the condition of the cylinders, you may need to have a closer look?  I don't have enough experience with an engine in this condition to guess at what the rest of the insides would look like. Maybe Buddha can give you a good guess based on the rusted engine he described in his post?

Thanks again for this inside look at the dismantle. 

I appreciate the options guys, I would prefer to stick with the closest to stock option so I think the 0.5 oversized pistons would be the best bet.  So should I take it to a machinst and get it checked before I order the oversized pistons or should I just get the oversized pistons and take everything to the machinist?

As for anything lower, I do not have any experience so how will I know if anything else needs replaced?  I think this was a case of the engine sitting for an extended period of time and the piston just rusting to the wall.  Perhaps Buddha can enlighten me?

no problem, I like to take pictures so what better way than to wrench and shoot pics! 

Thanks for the continued input guys!

So I went back out for a little more work after dinner, and I decided to see what I could find out about the bottom end.  So I started to spin the crank by any means (chain and ignitor bolt) and it spun freely and beautifully.  I don't want to have to dig in any deeper if its not necessary?  Any inputs?  I really need some knowledge dropped here by someone with more experience internally!

I also cleaned up the pistons a little bit just check for any cracks etc. and man they look good now!  I think I'm going to drop these off with the machinist and see if he can hone the cylinders to match the stock pistons!

And here is the last pic for tonight:

Cleaned up pistons:

Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 14, 2008, 10:51:23 PM
So I went back out for a little more work after dinner, and I decided to see what I could find out about the bottom end.  So I started to spin the crank by any means (chain and ignitor bolt) and it spun freely and beautifully.  I don't want to have to dig in any deeper if its not necessary?  Any inputs?  I really need some knowledge dropped here by someone with more experience internally!

Sounds promising. How much of the bottom end can you see with an inspection light? Any signs of rust down there? My main concern would be the bearings so hopefully someone can fill in details on the likelihood of damage.

I don't know if the bearings would have been fully submerged in oil and therefore protected from water damage. What was the consistency of the oil you removed? Did it look like water had seeped into the oil? I guess if the bearings were rusted it would be obvious when you spin the crank.

Quote
I also cleaned up the pistons a little bit just check for any cracks etc. and man they look good now!  I think I'm going to drop these off with the machinist and see if he can hone the cylinders to match the stock pistons!

The pistons did clean up pretty well. Unfortunately, considering the rust damage, I think it's unlikely that the machinist will be able to preserve the original diameter of the cylinders. You're right though, the best thing to do is ask.

Quote from: sledge on June 09, 2008, 10:33:20 AM
If you cant turn it by hand, cold and with the plugs out it is siezed ....period!....Get it out, get it apart, weigh it up and make a decision based on what you find.

Next step is to take the cylinder block to a local engine reconditioning company. General machine shops dont usually have the equipment or interest to handle this sort of job. The amount of damge shown in the pics wont hone out, it needs to be rebored. Dont order any oversize pistons until you have spoke the reconditioners, the size of piston you need will depend on the amount of metal that needs to be removed to restore the concentricty and surface finish of the cylinder wall and that is an unkown quantity as yet. Dont overlook the fact that a 0.5mm oversize piston only needs 0.25mm removing from the wall so if the damage runs deeper than 0.25mm you will have to go up the next oversize piston...........The recon` company will advise you and may even supply the correct pistons as part of the job.

Dont forget to order a top-end gasket set and you are going to need a torque wrench.

Sledge, what are your thoughts on the bottom end? Given what you've seen so far, do you think it is likely the rest of the engine would be in good shape?