hey all

i've noticed that if i try to shift down several gears at a time, a few of them make a distinct (and rather unpleasant) crunch sound.  this only happens, when i shift down several gears without releasing the clutch (like when i ride up on a red light and shift down while braking).  everything shifts fine otherwise, both up and down.

should i be concerned? any ideas would be appreciated

(it's 2001, if that matters)

Okay I have a question related to this, do the trans. on motorcycles in general have synchronizers like trucks and cars do :dunno: ?  I have the same problem with my truck when I am sitting still at a stop light trying to put it in 1st gear (or reverse) at a dead stop.  I know eventually I will have to rebuild the tranny because of this.  If they do have sync's in them, could that be the problem with the trans. that crash is talking about?

Crash, first two things I would check in order are; oil level and clutch lever adjustment. MC trannys live in the engine case and share the same oil (in most cases) so when it gets low, the gears don't want to engage quite as easily.

If it doesn't make these sounds if you only shift one or two gears at a time between clutching and your oil level is fine, don't worry about it. I am sure others will chime in with theirs doing the same thing. Personally I don't think I have done that to a trans in a long time (not counting when the bike isn't moving or even running but thats to be expected).

Moose, MC trannys do not use syncros. They are a constant mesh design so that all the gears are turning at the same rate all the time so there is nothing to synch.

MC trannys are none syncronized, constantmesh, sequinchal shift, you cant skip gears, you have to shift into a gear to get to the next, the crunching your hearing is the gear dogs  bouncing off eachother before locking together. this is what they call a fasle neural. if you get this alot, try couple things, like differnt type of oil, check your clutch adjustments, dont loligag around when shifting from one gear to another, snap it into place, you can always wait to let clutch out. the lazy shift makes almost as much noise as bent shift forks.

[quote="Blueknyt"...the lazy shift makes almost as much noise as bent shift forks.[/quote]

Also helps bend the shift forks so it becomes twice as loud. Lovely.

Of course, synchronized trannies are constant mesh as well.  

Motorcycle trannies have no synchronizers thanks to inherently narrow gear splits, sufficient primary reduction and the desire for speedy shifting.  

The "clunk" is caused by the widening gear splits when downshifting and the resulting acceleration of the input shaft mass which may have the engine spinning in excess of redline under those conditions were the clutch to be released.  Not good.  Wait 'til you've slowed to the appropriate road speed before making the final two downshifts.

Hope that's not a Ford, Moose.

Quote from: GisserHope that's not a Ford, Moose.

In fact its a ford ranger, so not a fun one to rebuild.  I am going to have to rebuild the tranny on Lucky's bug before I rebuild my trucks.  The same problem but then again the tranny on the bug is 21 yrs older.  I have been told to just buy a rebuilt tranny for my truck but they are rather expensive.  So after the bug is rebuilt then I will work on my truck.  I HATE working on transmissions!!!! :x

A properly adjusted chain makes a world of difference too.  It sounds silly but trust me on this.

Moose, dont know what year ranger you have, but most of them used a T5 for early early modles and used brass snycro rings and gear oil this was only a couple of years, the next generation is what they called the World Class T5, they use a paperlike kevlar lineing  in the syncros, this tranny uses the ATF type lube. the rebuild kits arnt too terible, you can also use the trannys from the mustangs,mid 80-early 90 camero, and i think some dakota's. just about anything that used the WCT5 the V8 powered stuff had a slighty different ratio package, abit taller then the weaker brethren, alot of 1/4 mile stangers use the 4cyl tranies cuz of the slightly lower ratio, to jump through the revs alittle faster. the VW trany, well, those are alot of work and require a few specialty tools if im not mistaken. you might be better off looking for some place that deals with sandrails and getting another one.

almost forgot to add, Moose when your shifting, try double clutching, push in the clutch shift to neutral, let clutch out then back in, and shift to next higher gear. its a quick double pump on the clutch, downshifting its alittle trickyer, shift to neutral, let theclutch out blip the gas to get RPM's about where they should be for next lower gear, push clutch in and shift to lower gear.  it takes practice but once you have it down, every damn syncro in the trany can be burnt out and gone with last lube change, alot of big rigs dont have syncros at all. and they have 8-15 gears to shift through, hell alot of those guys only use the clutch for starting and stoping.they time the shifts "float the gears" and keep on trucking. alot of early car's were the same.

Blueknyt knows his trans, I should defer, but I do happen to have a Ranger in the family.  I think this one has a Mazda tranny.  Driven but never owned a FD with a T5 and that trans is unsynchronized in reverse.  No teardown needed on that one.

I've found that the crunch going into first is reduced if I clutch-out whilst in neutral. There is probably no logical or engineering reason for this, it just seems to happen.

ok cal, sounds like your going too fast before shifting down. i get the same noise when hauling ass and grab front brake and drop 2 gears ,feathering the clutch to keep rear from breaking loose, this way i dont lock up the rear with the brake.(my right foot doesnt get used much)i dont do this often as its hard on the tire,chain,and tranny.but it hasnt failed me for emergency slowdowns while changing direction,  Racers use heavy front brake and bite the rear brake to slide the rear into a turn, known as backing it in.  im not that brave....yet.

un syncroed reverse? grinds going into reverse does it? try this, push in the clutch, put it into 5th then drop it right back into rev.  by doing this, youstop the gears from turning enough to slip into reverse.  you might also want to check the clutch adjustment.

hey blueknyt, i do that on my frontier. (float the gears. used to drive truck), hadnt had any probs as of yet :dunno:  

Sorry didn't reply to this one sooner, the year is a 93 ranger.  From what I heard is that ford did end up using atf in the tranny.  Couldn't I just change it to gear oil like it should be in the first place.  I have also been told that this will help with the shifting problem.  BTW I used to be able to float the gears (speed shifting?) like you said Blueknyt in my old 280zx that I had.  Was really convenient when the slave cylinder went out on it.

Thanks Blueknyt, I think you're right. I find that if I have to drop rapidly through the gears a little clutch jiggle smooths the process otherwise there is a tendency to lock in second or third.

Ninety-three Ranger?  That's pretty close to the family rig.  Mazda tranny.  Look underneath; if the shift lever mounts on the front section of the trans (vertical split cases) its Mazda.  This is good.  If the lever mounts on the rear section, or if it has an oil pan, you got one of the bad alternatives.  Beware gear oil; purpose of ATF is to lube needle bearings.

I own a 91 f150 with the mazda tranny.  After 2 clutches, and slave cylinder.  I strongly recommend sticking with whcih ever type of fluid was in it in the first place.  
When I replaced my 1st clutch,  I swapped over to gear oil, and  it started making grinding noises.   after draining and refilling with decon 5 ( I think that was what it calls for in the book)   Three times the grinding went away.  So my suggestion would be to stick with the standard fluid ask for  my hte manual.


just my humble opinion

sorry to hear about your transmission but, due to the title of this thread, i was hoping for a discussion about lady-boys. oh well.

maybe next time.