I had both my front and rear wheel powdercoated a while ago.. I just realized that my front wheel was loose .. and I found out that the front wheel bearings slide inside the housing..

Anyone know if this is fixable? or if I need a new front wheel?
The bearing being used is a 6302Z , the previous bearings I had in there were 6302ZZ.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4365819810559753043&hl=en
Both sides do this...

im not sure i see what your talking about?

are you saying that the bearing is not bigenough for the wheel?

The extra Z is for sheilding ... as such its not of consequence.
And ...
WTF ... installing and removing bearing by hand ... unless you are superman ... very very bad. Usually it takes several good dized blows with a 16 Oz hammer and the right sized pipe to get them seated.
Where is the spacer sleeve that sits in there too.
I dunno ... maybe the powdercoating peckerheads ground that area in place of just sand blasting it ... maybe they acid dipped this and it got eaten ... I dunno, but it looks bad.
You know if the old and new bearings are same OD maybe these were in the wrong box ? the 6302 series has specs on the net, like 17mm ID, 35mm OD, 15mm width ... measure your wheel in that area, if its larger than 35 ... its cooked, toss it and get new wheel.
Cool.
Buddha.

the spacer sleeve is removed because both side bearings are removed... which brings me to another concern..

When I had both bearings installed with the spacer sleeve, the sleeve seemed like it was too long, and would not allow either bearing to fully seat.. Does anyone know the length of the sleeve?

I might have mixed it up with some other junk I had laying around..

Gaaaa ... its getting from bad to worse ... I dont think I can measure the spacer ... maybe someone else here can.
Cool.
Buddha.

Housing looks worn to me, there should be some intereference between the outer race and the housing to prevent the bearing from spinning. You need to get the housing measured with a internal-micrometer or a borescope, anything more than about 35.02 and I would say its worn. A smear of Loctite on the bearing will help but if its much beyond this your stuffed. A good machine shop will bore the housing, sleeve it and bore it out to OEM spec if there is enough parent metal but a 2nd hand wheel might work out cheaper.

Get another wheel ...
If you want powdercoated ones ... I'll take one I have, make sure its good, knock its bearings out, block off that area with plates and a bolt, and get it powdercoated and send you.
My guys will not touch the bearing area ... and they dont acid dip. Just sand blast and coat.
Cool.
Buddha.

Hi Franke,

The only purpose of a light press fit is to ensure that the bearing does not spin inside the bore.  This will obviously wear the bore and contribute to mechanical noise and vibration.  A running locational fit such as you have is perfectly safe from the mechanical standpoint.

Here are a couple of repair options:

1)  Link --> Loctite compound 603  Follow the directions carefully.  Compound 603 is commonly used by toolmakers on jig plates, after the jigs have been bored to size to fit the wear bushings and pins, since a force fit can displace the absolute location or shrink the ID of a bored bushing.  It will work well in your application.  Remove with heat, lots of it.

2)  Stake the bore with 6 or so punch marks radially around the inside of the bore, about halfway between the bottom of the bore and the face.  By upsetting material into the bore with a punch the bearing will now press tightly.  Be careful how much you stake the bore, you can make it TOO tight. 

If it is too loose after the first go-round, add a few more upsets and try again.  However, you DO NOT need a fit so tight that you have to pound the bearing in with a sledgehammer.  A few smart taps with an average framing hammer or ball peen are plenty.  The fit isn't keeping the bike together.  I've staked my fair share of bearings, they all work fine.  The fastest one operates at 24,000 RPM.

No need to replace the wheel or bore and bush unless the radial play of the bearing is excessive.  If the fit is within .008" diametrically you'll be perfectly fine with either method.

Quote from: GeeP on September 12, 2008, 04:42:11 PM
Hi Franke,

The only purpose of a light press fit is to ensure that the bearing does not spin inside the bore.  This will obviously wear the bore and contribute to mechanical noise and vibration.  A running locational fit such as you have is perfectly safe from the mechanical standpoint.

Here are a couple of repair options:

1)  Link --> Loctite compound 603  Follow the directions carefully.  Compound 603 is commonly used by toolmakers on jig plates, after the jigs have been bored to size to fit the wear bushings and pins, since a force fit can displace the absolute location or shrink the ID of a bored bushing.  It will work well in your application.  Remove with heat, lots of it.

2)  Stake the bore with 6 or so punch marks radially around the inside of the bore, about halfway between the bottom of the bore and the face.  By upsetting material into the bore with a punch the bearing will now press tightly.  Be careful how much you stake the bore, you can make it TOO tight. 

If it is too loose after the first go-round, add a few more upsets and try again.  However, you DO NOT need a fit so tight that you have to pound the bearing in with a sledgehammer.  A few smart taps with an average framing hammer or ball peen are plenty.  The fit isn't keeping the bike together.  I've staked my fair share of bearings, they all work fine.  The fastest one operates at 24,000 RPM.

No need to replace the wheel or bore and bush unless the radial play of the bearing is excessive.  If the fit is within .008" diametrically you'll be perfectly fine with either method.

1) i've always called that a "friday fix" as in, it's friday, and i dun wanna come in to fix it proper tomorrow. usually works fine, even with tonnage.

2) i've always called that "chinese knurling". think some journeyman toolmaker coined the phrase 100 years ago. dunno. works great for allot of things. i wouldn't do it for a wheel on my bike though. option one is better.

option 'locate, bore, shrink fit sleeve, re-bore to spec' is the best for repair.

best option overall ? new wheel.

2 cents. good advice all around

Thanks for all your guys suggestions...

Here's some measurement pics:

http://picasaweb.google.com/FranklinYChou/GS500WheelProblems#

Pic 7 shows the problem with the spacer sleeve

Geep-

What do you mean by stake?
Am I suppose to apply the 603 and then ?

Hi Franke,

Looks like the bore is around .004" over.  Plenty fine for either method.

Your spacer problem though...  That's a mystery. 

Obviously though, the bearings must both bottom in their respective bores, otherwise there will be side play in the wheel.  I'm wondering if you somehow got a wrong bearing, mixed parts or otherwise.  Do you have the removed bearings for comparison?

What I mean by "staking" which is a bastardization of another bearing term, but roughly applies is using a center punch of suitable size to produce upset marks around the inside of the bore.  The purpose being that the upset material will impinge on the bearing outer race and prevent it from rotating, securing the bearing.  It's an old repair trick and works well if done carefully.  Most small roller and ball bearings create little torque around their axis of rotation, so not much friction is required to keep them from spinning.  But that doesn't solve the obvious problem with the spacer/bore bottom.

I can't imagine that the wheel hub simply SHRANK what looks like a good 2-3mm while in the oven.  There's something else going on here, I think.  Are the bore depths on both sides the same?  Been a while since I had the front bearings out... 


Ohgood, fess up!  You just like getting a brown stripe down your apron.  Damn lathe hands...   

You guys want to knurl the bore ... OK I would have much rather got those clevite style crank bearings in just about the right thickness/diameter and sanded them or the bore to all fit with the right interference.
Knurling the bore seems worrisome to me ... knurling is good where there is oil trapping. This runs dry and takes impacts and shock, I think the knurling will start to get glazed and once a little of it goes, it will just accelerate its polishing and be smooth as a baby's butt in no time.
Cool.
Buddha.

i finally got the pictures link to load. that bore looks like warmed over shaZam! on a stick. i wouldn't trust it. before i'd go through the expense of shrinking in a bushing, a wheel would be found on ebay/ gstwins/ whereever.

that really looks like hell !


geep- if i wore an apron.. . ya !

Well I just used some red loctite and it seems to hold the bearings in place. Put about 50 miles on it so far.. seems okay.. front end feels much better.
I'm still wondering why the sleeve seems longer than normal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem as long as the axle is tightly in place.

I'll probably be replacing the front wheel later as a long term repair

How'ntarnation didja git th' bearings seated if'n th' danged spacer is too long!

I suspect that well before the powder coat project there were bad bearings in that wheel that locked and spun -- galling those bores around the circumferance and the bottoms -- thus the spacer is NOT too long, the bores are too deep.  So now Ya dun went an' glued the new bearings in with Red Loctite, but I reckon the whole deal is an abortion now.  New wheel is the way t' go if you don't want to get stranded out on the road sooner or later.

prs

That might have been true.. but when i punched out bearings they were basically rusted in... it took a lot of hammering to get them out.