Obama NEVER proposed sex ed in kindergarten.  This is yet another right-wing lie or distortion to distract voters from the real issues.

Obama voted for a bill which said that ANY sex-ed in K-12 would have age-appropriate information about protection from sexual predators.  I think that every one of us would have voted for the bill.

Also, Obama's alleged brother (he has no brother named Malik) never stated Obama was a Muslim.  He actually stated Obama was a Christian.  Which he is.  It's a shame that some right wing posters on this forum don't bother to check facts.  Maybe they have the Google skillz of John McCain.

Okay that's just insulting and Nasty TG, I do a preemptory fact check before I post. That was uncalled for you owe me an apology.

You do not teach them about condoms and STD's, but we could teach them what to do in situations where their odd relative is a bit too friendly.  Teach them things that concerns kids their age.  I always vote for education.  Browsing the various right-wing sites does not count as a complete fact check.  You have to look at both sides and you will locate a decent opinion somewhere in the middle. 

I agree with moving elswhere.  I am trying to talk my wife into letting me take a job in Africa for a couple of years.  I tried getting her to letting me take a job in the UAE, but she had pretty good points on why that was a bad idea (a little issue of women having zero rights), but I am still working on Africa.

Today is a big day for the country.  Basically, the way I understand it, Bush gave a "we need 200 billion" speech which, frenzied the stock market and everyone sold causing the market to drop drastically.  Today within an hour of opening it was down 130 points and Bush gave another speech saying that no one has agreed yet, but it will happen.  Investors are being as patient as possible, but if there is no resolution today, they will have to stew all weekend and by monday morning, a large percent will cave .  At this point, the market will crash and the recession and/or depression will officially begin.  On the other hand, they pass the 700 billion bail out, putting us further in debt and dropping the value of the dollar even further, which will lead to the recession and/or depression anyway.

As I said before, I am not that educated in economics so, am I getting this correct??  How would the bail out be a good thing??  

The way I understand it is this ... and this is the only way it can work ... else tax payer is really really really F*(ked ... and this may be what Paulson does not want to see happen ... but for my $$ this is the way I'd do it.
There are these CDO's, they ahve 3-5% non performing mortgages, another 10-12% that is likely to start crapping out shortly, and another maybe 10% that is a wee bit less likely to perform ... as in I stop paying the mortgage on my house and the 3% count gets bumped up by 1.
However there is no concrete numbers on them ... maybe 3% in 1 bundle, maybe 10% in another ... maybe 0 in a third.
Recently Merrill Lynch unloaded a few million of these for 22 cents on the dollar. That was 8-9 months ago. The problem is that no one was willing to buy them since they had no idea what was performing and what was not. The one thing for sure is that over 60% will not ever default ... maybe even closer to 75 % ... why ... cos the houses that those mortgages represent are worth a lot more than the value of the mortgage and it will never change ... as in you owe 50K on a house you bought 15 years ago for 125K ... If the market was great, that house is worth 300K, bad market ... 250K. Stuff like that. So what we do is, allocate the max 700B, and we brow beat all the damn banks to 10 cents on the dollar ... what was 22c 8 months ago isn't worth 1/2 that now obviously ... which is why you've come to us asking for crap ... and the govt takes the CDO's, unbundles them, goes right to the un performing mortgage, either takes the house if its been abandoned or left by the owner/investor, sells it for the market price, and the owner is on the hook for the rest of the $, or they renegotiate their mortgage and continue the payments with new terms. The performing mortgages will be held or sold over the first few years.
Buy low sell high and let wall street get the shaft. After all they were the ones who made billions last year when they thought they were invincible.
However the Paulson plan is to pay them 80-90 cents on the dollar, so they can keep functioning as they are and we try to make the $$ back with some weird setup where we sell this crap to china ...
No ... hell no. If we buy it, we are in the business of CDO and MBS trading ... we'll do it like the sharks did it last year.
BTW ... the moron's at B of A must be feeling really really foolish now ... they paid 50 billion for merrill Lynch and today wamu gets bought by JPMC for 1.2 billion. Oh F*(k that gotta hurt.
In any case, the bailout plan needs to happen at snails pace ... it has to go through congress the same way any other BS happens, so wall street can shrivel and die and sell us the damn CDO's for like ... 3 cents on the dollar ...
If implemented right ... I would think of it as a bottle of oil to keep the engine that is jammed up from lack of lubrication going again ... if its implemented badly, its the gasoline and the road that this damn machine is eating up as its moving ... The govt is notoriously poor at doing hard nosed negotiation and these finer adjustments in the financial instruments.
Cool.
Buddha.

Nice analysis and understanding of mortgage markets and bundles there Buddah. I disagree that a bailout needs to happen. The free market and banking industry needs to pay for it's mistake, which means we will all pay for it interest rates are going to climb, the ability to borrow money is going to become very difficult.

Quote from: bettingpython on September 26, 2008, 07:21:10 AM
Okay that's just insulting and Nasty TG, I do a preemptory fact check before I post. That was uncalled for you owe me an apology.

You are correct.  I left out the word "some" in my nasty comment!  It has now been corrected.  I agree that you , BP,  do fact-check (and as a result, don't post falsehoods).  You are also critical of the GOP when it's wrong.  As I am of the Dems when they are wrong.

BTW, I am in total agreement that the bailout is wrong.  Capitalism is NOT about giving 3/4 of a trillion dollars to rich people and corporations for doing a poor job.

Possibly the best political cartoon ever...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19798680/?cat=td

BTW the failing financial firms need to throw these MBS and CDO's open to the public, as all their assets ... to br bought by the highest bidder ... for example, that Lehmann brothers video's they had, had a nice chandelier in their lobby, I need to buy that for my garage ... I bid 30 cents shipped. I also plan to buy Ken Lewis's office desk and install a toilet behind it ... so I can keep on posting uninterrupted on this site while on the toilet ... In fact I'll even bid for ken lewis to install the toilet. 35c per hour ... no counter offers ... sold.
Put the damn CDO's and MBS crap on fleabay ... Today it is worth 10 c on the dollar, tommorow it may be 2 cents ... hold it 10 years ... or unbundle and re format it ... BTW you need a few gazillion of these to be able to correctly unbundle them ... so that almost requires government intervention ... and fiddle it right and it could be worth 1.25 on the dollar or more ...
Its like these people all are holding some cards in the poker game complaining that their cards are worthless ... the man walks in, your cards worthless, here is 10c, its better than worthless, hand me your cards ... do it to 4-5-6 of the poker players, and voila ... A,K,Q,J of spades ... and take the whole pot.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on September 24, 2008, 11:48:33 PM
Oh and another thing. im beginning to doubt Obamas christianity. , which is not really relevant. but that recent interview, when he mentioned his muslim faith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M or did he not have another teleprompter breakdown?

and TG, if you were incinuating that I DONT fact check. the words came from obama himself. and staph corrected him. perhaps it was a freudian slip perhaps not. only he and god knows whats up.

alright TG let me ask you this, since youre so into obama. what has he done wrong?

specifically?, no need to mention mccain or bush or anything else.
just worng things OBAMA has done

Quote from: trumpetguy on September 26, 2008, 07:02:17 AM
Obama NEVER proposed sex ed in kindergarten.  This is yet another right-wing lie or distortion to distract voters from the real issues.

Obama voted for a bill which said that ANY sex-ed in K-12 would have age-appropriate information about protection from sexual predators.  I think that every one of us would have voted for the bill.

Also, Obama's alleged brother (he has no brother named Malik) never stated Obama was a Muslim.  He actually stated Obama was a Christian.  Which he is.  It's a shame that some right wing posters on this forum don't bother to check facts.  Maybe they have the Google skillz of John McCain.

and left wing posters do the same TG, , this will never change

i read the same exact things on liberal sites, and blogs and news media pretty much every day.

If you look at the context of when Obama said "my Muslim faith" he was speaking about the people who falsely talk about "his Muslim faith."  I don't understand how any thinking person could believe that he was saying he was a Muslim.  Lots of people have played the video out of context to make it look that way.

Obama's faults --

He's not a liberal.  I want someone to say we need single payer universal health care.  That EVERY American is entitled to health care, rich or poor, old or young.  At my university, we have employee health care -- the school pays for the employee.  If you want spouse coverage or child coverage, you pay for that.  Beginning in January, that will cost over $900 a month for children and spouse, for basic coverage, not Cadillac coverage.  We pay our staff like dirt.  The monthly check of a secretary is probably $1300 after taxes, and she could be paying $500-900 of that in health care?  Get real.  And every business in America is dealing with the same issue.  But they're not dealing with that issue in Canada or England or France or Germany.  Yes, their taxes are higher to cover health care, but they spend about 1/2 of what we spend on health care and on average get better care.  What they DON'T do is line the pockets of insurance companies.

He's also been too cozy with corporations for my taste.  Not nearly like the incestuous relationship that Republicans have, but still too cozy.

yeah TG TY i thought you end up posting to this. but again thank you. i knew the obama vid was out of context or taken as such. id be the devils advocate and say, perhaps, hed been accused of being a muslim since day 1, perhaps that had something to do with it. ill give him the benefit of the doubt on that. as far as his "brother", who knows. lol you know as well as i do, when you become "rich and or famous, or both, " for some reason, your family increases. maybe that has happened, OR maybe he does in fact have a brother. who knows 

He does indeed have a brother.  But that story (that his brother called him a Muslim) is a hoax.

nowaitaminute, hes NOT a liberal?, ive heard otherwise, i thought he was rated as number 1 liberal in the senate, or is that a conspiracy, right wing whatnot? http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/ what ive found so far, will continue to look for more links/info

http://voteview.ucsd.edu/sen110.htm

Quote from: Cal76 on September 25, 2008, 07:18:53 PM
You have been posting unsubstanciated videos since this thread began.  Videos and essays published by extremists and closed minded hipocrites.  I know the "troopergate" <--hilarious name BTW, is ongoing, but at least it is valid.  It is in an actual court not a radio talk show, and it has factual based evidence instead of propoganda and hearsay.

STD's to kindergarden students----When do you suppose we educate our youth.  At 16 when they are pregnant?  or 13 which, is the age some girls are having sex?  Or how about no education at all--I guess that would be the christian way of doing things.  After all, we can't go around educate our youth so that someday they may actually learn to think for themselves.  I do not think there is a time too early to educate our youth.  It doesn't mean that it needs to be explicit and vulgar.  Kindergarten aged children are not going to understand calculus and teaching them it at such a young age is most likely going to confuse them, but that doesn't mean we do teach math at all until college.  You start out slow by teaching them to add and subtract.  It is the same thing with Sex ed at an early age, start slow and we may be able to convince teenagers that Bobby the 24 yr old HS drop out bagboy at the local harris teeter is probably not in love with her and may not be the greatest mate to go into a financial partnership with.  She may just learn that there are other ways to get attention without mini skirts and tube tops.   

Just because there is one thing that is in the courts now, doesn't mean that Obama hasn't done things or is related to things that have been in the courts, or should be in the courts.

Yes, I would rather the schools not teach sex ed.  That should be up to the parents, for when and what gets taught.  People are just shoving their kids into the schools expecting them to learn the meaning of life, and they are being taught things that have always been the parents job up until recent years.  This is a very good example of one.  Another is Evolution.  IT'S A THEORY!  It's something that can't be proven, so by definition, it's a theory, and holds just as much merit as Creationism, however it's forbidden to teach that in public schools.

QuoteIf you look at the context of when Obama said "my Muslim faith" he was speaking about the people who falsely talk about "his Muslim faith."  I don't understand how any thinking person could believe that he was saying he was a Muslim.  Lots of people have played the video out of context to make it look that way.

I agree with this...this video was taken out of context.  It was just a slip of his tongue.  He was just talking about how other people are accusing him of having a Muslim Faith.  However, he's still no Christian.  And also, may still have ties with the Muslim faith, as which his cousin Odinga has in Kenya.  Also, his Father is Muslim, which automatically makes Obama Muslim by birth.  Now, whether he believes in Islam or not is another story.  But like I said, he's no Christian.


I don't know much about all this Economic Crap going on right now, but the right is not all to blame.  I'd say it's about equal.  What I want from this, is for the companies to go under, and being bought out.  the CEO's and other executives go under, because they made bad choices.  And for everyone that took a home loan that new in the back of their mind that they couldn't afford it, to loose their homes, and be starting at square one, where they should have been, since they shouldn't have gotten into a house in the first place.


-EDIT-  It seems as though Obama states that his father was not Muslim, and was always and Atheist.  Since there is no proof on either side of this, then the 'father was a Muslim' comments will seize.

Quote from: trumpetguy on September 26, 2008, 08:51:05 PMI want someone to say we need single payer universal health care.  That EVERY American is entitled to health care, rich or poor, old or young.

Exactly!  In a country like the US which is one of the wealthiest with the best medical care available in the world, there is absolutely no reason why people should have to jump through so many hoops to have health care.

Quote from: trumpetguy on September 26, 2008, 08:51:05 PM
But they're not dealing with that issue in Canada or England or France or Germany.  Yes, their taxes are higher to cover health care, but they spend about 1/2 of what we spend on health care and on average get better care.  What they DON'T do is line the pockets of insurance companies.

You're half right about Canada.  If you look at the overall taxation of the citizens, its about the same, its just structured differenty.  Income taxes are slightly lower, but consumer tax (GST, HST, etc) is higher.  Plus cigarettes and gas are taxed higher in Canada, so its pretty much a wash as far as net standard of living with the US having a slight advantage.

Where you're right is that there is no insurance company making a boatload of money because the provinces and feds decide how much drugs will be or how much a procedure is and the corporations have to deal with it.  They're starting to try and flex their muscles back, but I think the system is too ingrained in Canadian society.

For example, last week on a program called "White Coat Black Art" on CBC Radio 1, they were talking about how drug companies make backroom deals trying to get some of their expensive drugs on the formulary.  One example is Quebec where a lot of drugs are made.  Drug companies have said in a roundabout way "put drug X on the formulary or we'll move our operations to a province that will add it".  Though unlikely they would carry out the threat, the notion of job losses plays into politics and hence it gets added to Quebec's formulary.  This in turn causes a domino effect causing other provinces to put the same drug on their formulary.

The manipulation by corporate greed in health care isn't as overt in Canada as it is in the United States, but there is an unsettling movement in that direction.

Quote from: quiktaco on September 29, 2008, 09:02:11 AM
But like I said, he's no Christian.

To be a Christian one must simply accept Jesus as the son of God and ask forgiveness. How do YOU know what Obama is or isn't?  To make such a statement is to belittle your own faith.  It is a matter between Obama and God, period.  He doesn't need your approval to be a Christian.

Quote from: trumpetguy on September 29, 2008, 03:31:46 PM

Quote from: quiktaco on September 29, 2008, 09:02:11 AM
But like I said, he's no Christian.

To be a Christian one must simply accept Jesus as the son of God and ask forgiveness. How do YOU know what Obama is or isn't?  To make such a statement is to belittle your own faith.  It is a matter between Obama and God, period.  He doesn't need your approval to be a Christian.

If he's following the teachings of the Church that he attended for over 20 years, then he is no Christian.  That is what I'm basing my comments on.  Yes, I agree that it is between God and him, however, if he attended a Buddhist Temple for 20+ years and followed those teachings, and then called himself Christian, then you'd have to agree that he isn't Christian.  The Trinity church is not a Christian Church.  They may call themselves Christian, but it's not a denomination that is accepted by the 'Christian' Faith.  They do not believe in the same God, and the same Jesus as the rest of the Christian world.  Just like Mormons call themselves Christian.  They are not as well, because they do not believe in the same God, or the same Jesus.

If Obama is truly Christian, by the same means that the rest of the world sees Christianity, then good for him.  However, by his moral standards on issues, he goes against teachings in the Bible.

I am not belittling my own belief.  I am spreading my faith, and hopefully lessening the confusion on what it means to be Christian.  There are many false profits, and false teachings in the world, that try to lead people astray and away from God.  Obama, by saying he is Christian, is spreading an incorrect gospel, and therefor may hurt people in their quest to find God.

I'm sorry TrumpetGuy, but you cannot shake my faith.  God stands with me when I am attacked by people like you.  If I can help to get one person saved over my lifetime, then I'll be happy.  I feel sorry for you, because you have to know that you are trying to damn people.  Trying to turn people from God.  Trying to break people of their faith.  You are on the side of Satin, even if you claim not to be.

er its satan. weird thing is, ask kerry here, a mormon btw. i asked him in a roundabout way, after a religion flame war we had heere a few years back, the gis of the quesiton is/was what book does his church/religion preach/teach from, to which he replied the KJV. as well as somethign called teh book of mormon.