Sarah Palin does have a lot more in common with 'real people'.  She's a small town woman who hasn't been corrupted by the rest of Washington.  She's fought against bad ideas proposed by both sides.  She seems like an ideal candidate.  She's going to get things done, without all the corruption.

The way I see immigration is, come here legally, and you'll have a welcome mat placed at your feet.  Illegally, then you get sent back.

I agree, but it needs to be harsher if you come illegally

if you care caught illegally and you are sent back you are banned 10 years from entering the US.

But, I think we should get some kind of biometric data to make sure a fake passport isn't issued in order to ensure denial of entry.

If you manage to get in again and are deported a 2nd time, the ban should be LIFE.
If you manage to get in a 3rd time, then you get to go to jail and make our license plates at $0.25 an hour almost all of which is garnished to pay for the food you have to eat while we incarcerate you.

Its infuriating to see so many illegals get in then demand that they get rights just becuase they managed to duck the system for X number of years.  I fought tooth and nail to do immigration legally.  I know others who have waited years to get a chance to legally immigrate to the US or Canada.  If you want the dream of a better life that badly, then do what it takes to follow the rules.

Quote from: CanukGS500 on September 30, 2008, 12:42:12 PMIf you want the dream of a better life that badly, then do what it takes to follow the rules.

+1000 

Quote from: CanukGS500 on September 30, 2008, 12:42:12 PM
I agree, but it needs to be harsher if you come illegally

if you care caught illegally and you are sent back you are banned 10 years from entering the US.

But, I think we should get some kind of biometric data to make sure a fake passport isn't issued in order to ensure denial of entry.

If you manage to get in again and are deported a 2nd time, the ban should be LIFE.
If you manage to get in a 3rd time, then you get to go to jail and make our license plates at $0.25 an hour almost all of which is garnished to pay for the food you have to eat while we incarcerate you.

Its infuriating to see so many illegals get in then demand that they get rights just becuase they managed to duck the system for X number of years.  I fought tooth and nail to do immigration legally.  I know others who have waited years to get a chance to legally immigrate to the US or Canada.  If you want the dream of a better life that badly, then do what it takes to follow the rules.

I support that plan.  Good idea on the 10 year ban and stuff.  My brother in law is half Mexican...his mom was full Mexican, and came here legally.  They work hard and have a great life.  And they've also adapted the culture here.  She learned English, and blended in with the rest of America.  She didn't refuse to learn the language and stay amongst her own people.  That's what coming here is supposed to be about.  To become part of the American Culture.  Not just moving your culture from your homeland to here.  And I'm not saying that the immigrants have to leave their culture.  My brother in law's Mom makes some mean Mexican food!

Quote from: quiktaco on September 30, 2008, 11:25:42 AM
I've noticed something during this thread.  Obama supporters do not have God in their hearts.  I don't think a single one does.  That kinda makes since though.  Without the Lord, these people don't really see that Obama is not a good person.  They have been corrupted with what is right and what is wrong.

Once again, you post something (with lousy spelling, even) about which you have NO knowledge.  You cannot make that statement.  Do I believe what YOU believe?  Not at all.  Does that mean I am wrong?  Hardly.  There are plenty of Christian liberals, just like Jesus was.

Catholics say that all other religions are abominations.  Mormons say the same. Baptists say the same.  Muslims say the same.  Foaming-at-the-mouth right wing evangelicals say the same.  Rubbish.

Quote from: trumpetguy on September 30, 2008, 01:10:01 PM

Quote from: quiktaco on September 30, 2008, 11:25:42 AM
I've noticed something during this thread.  Obama supporters do not have God in their hearts.  I don't think a single one does.  That kinda makes since though.  Without the Lord, these people don't really see that Obama is not a good person.  They have been corrupted with what is right and what is wrong.

Once again, you post something (with lousy spelling, even) about which you have NO knowledge.  You cannot make that statement.  Do I believe what YOU believe?  Not at all.  Does that mean I am wrong?  Hardly.  There are plenty of Christian liberals, just like Jesus was.

Catholics say that all other religions are abominations.  Mormons say the same. Baptists say the same.  Muslims say the same.  Foaming-at-the-mouth right wing evangelicals say the same.  Rubbish.

Why do you say Jesus was Liberal? (and there you go attacking me again.  I know I don't spell well, who cares?)

About time for this to go to the TF.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Read the Beatitudes and tell me Jesus was not liberal.  Read what he said about camels and the eye of a needle and tell me He supports corporate America the way the GOP does. I could go on...

No, no TF.  I think this Thread still has substance

Quote from: quiktaco on September 30, 2008, 12:55:18 PM

Quote from: CanukGS500 on September 30, 2008, 12:42:12 PM
I agree, but it needs to be harsher if you come illegally

if you care caught illegally and you are sent back you are banned 10 years from entering the US.

But, I think we should get some kind of biometric data to make sure a fake passport isn't issued in order to ensure denial of entry.

If you manage to get in again and are deported a 2nd time, the ban should be LIFE.
If you manage to get in a 3rd time, then you get to go to jail and make our license plates at $0.25 an hour almost all of which is garnished to pay for the food you have to eat while we incarcerate you.

Its infuriating to see so many illegals get in then demand that they get rights just becuase they managed to duck the system for X number of years.  I fought tooth and nail to do immigration legally.  I know others who have waited years to get a chance to legally immigrate to the US or Canada.  If you want the dream of a better life that badly, then do what it takes to follow the rules.

I support that plan.  Good idea on the 10 year ban and stuff.  My brother in law is half Mexican...his mom was full Mexican, and came here legally.  They work hard and have a great life.  And they've also adapted the culture here.  She learned English, and blended in with the rest of America.  She didn't refuse to learn the language and stay amongst her own people.  That's what coming here is supposed to be about.  To become part of the American Culture.  Not just moving your culture from your homeland to here.  And I'm not saying that the immigrants have to leave their culture.  My brother in law's Mom makes some mean Mexican food!

The 10 year ban is already here.  I know someone from Macedonia who got scammed in an immigration scam.  He was supposedly going to get his green card and they deported him that day without even being able to go back to his apartment to get his things or anything.  He's now banned from entering for 10 years.

You hit something right on the head about coming to a new country, in particular the US... The offical language of the US is ENGLISH.  Im sick of hearing "para continuar en Espanyol, oprima el dos" or "para continuar, diga 'espanyol'".

If you love the US for something beyond the money you can make and your standard of living, make an effort to assimilate into society.  I'm not saying forget where you're from, but at the very least, learn english.

That annoys me almost as much as people who are adjective-americans... you know... "african american", "asian american", "latino american"... aside from these things being horribly innacurate unless you are a naturalized american citizen, what's so wrong with simply being an american?

Quote from: trumpetguy on September 30, 2008, 01:16:22 PM
Read the Beatitudes and tell me Jesus was not liberal.  Read what he said about camels and the eye of a needle and tell me He supports corporate America the way the GOP does. I could go on...

There's nothing wrong with Corporate America.  Successful people that worked hard to get there should not be cut down.  When corruption embeds itself into the system is when things go bad.  Corruption is on Liberal and Conservative sides.

Jesus was for one thing.  He spread the Word of God.  He obeyed the 10 commandments, and was perfect.  He then died for our sins, and rose again on the 3rd day.

You replied with an attack of Republicans.  I'm looking for what attributes of Liberalism are you saying Jesus had.  I'm sure there are issues that Jesus would agree with, as would I.  But Liberalism these days has turned into anything and everything goes, and has become a very Socialistic system.

From www.jesusisaliberal.org (temporarily down):

Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal

Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9]  Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39]  I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute you; [Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7]  Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]   

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.  [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7]  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.  [Matthew 6:15]

Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.]  Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.  [Matthew 22:21] 

Community:  Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39]  So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you. [Matthew 7:12.]  If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. [Matthew 19:21] 

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.] 

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.  But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret... [Matthew 6:6 & 7]

Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?  [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]

Liberalism as defined by Webster's Third New International Dictionary: "a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of man, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for tolerance and freedom for the individual from arbitrary authority in all spheres of life..."

This I would agree with.  I could see how you would view Christ as a Liberal.  However that is not the Liberal of today.

When I hear liberal, I think - baby killing, homosexuals, promiscuous sex, 'mother earth' worshiping, evolutionists, atheists, huge government that controls everything, high taxes, tons of needless programs and spending, stealing my money to pay for these programs, restrictions on guns, restrictions on tons of other things, freedom of all religions except Christianity, ACLU, Take the 10 commandments out of public places, take God off of the money, and out of schools, teach evolution and sex ed to my children.

These are not the morals and values that I hold.

Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?  The men of Sodom "were wicked, such sinners against the Lord, He decided to destroy them." For the people of the land, there was no escape, as the Lord "rained down fire and brimstone . . . He destroyed everyone living there and everything growing in the ground."

In Genesis 18, God informs Abraham that he plans to destroy the city of Sodom because of its wickedness. Abraham pleads with God not to destroy Sodom, and God agrees that he would not destroy the city if there were 50 righteous people in it, then 45, then 30, then 20, or even ten righteous people. The Lord's two angels only found one righteous person living in Sodom, Abraham's nephew Lot. Consequently, God destroyed the city.

America, because of Liberals is turning into these cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.  All of the world is really.

To the Lord, for we will be with him soon

What about where it tell you to rightly devide to WORD OF GOD.
You sir and that web site need to look at the entire BIBLE and not just what you want.
IMHO
PS You can't tell me if somone hurts you or the ones you love that you will turn the other cheek.
Nice to say but hard to do.

Quote from: cafeboy on September 30, 2008, 01:55:51 PM
What about where it tell you to rightly devide to WORD OF GOD.
You sir and that web site need to look at the entire BIBLE and not just what you want.
IMHO
PS You can't tell me if somone hurts you or the ones you love that you will turn the other cheek.
Nice to say but hard to do.

Feel free to quote contrary scriptures -- good luck.

No one said it was easy.  And no where does it say "unless you find it difficult, then do whatever you want."

Hey look, I'm pretty lucky huh?

Many people make the mistake of believing the Bible says, "You shall not kill," and seek to apply this command to war. However, the Bible actually says, "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word literally means "the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice." God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12; 21:15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but rather only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm is by going to war with them.

 I Timothy 5:8, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

II Thessalonians 3:6-12, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread."

I Timothy 5:3-10,16 "Honour widows that are widows indeed. But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God. Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless. But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work. If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed." Leviticus 22:13, "But if the priest's daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father's house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father's meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof."

Ezekiel 16:49-50, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

One of the reasons God destroyed the four cities on the plain was that they did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Government should try to strengthen the poor, not make them weaker. If the government is going to give things away, instead of giving fish, they should give a fishing pole. Then the poor would have the means to go out and catch their own fish. If government, church or individuals help the poor it should only be in such a way to get them started in helping themselves.

This principle is taught in the law of God:

Leviticus 19:9-10, "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God."

Leviticus 23:22, "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God."

(The widow Ruth practiced this in Ruth 2:1-3.)

By giving away free handouts (the fancy word today is "entitlements") the poor are weakened. They do not learn the value and self satisfaction of industriousness. The poor should not be weakened but strengthened. People should depend on themselves not on the government.



Wow I'm so lucky today...I should go play the lottery

TrumpetGuy
"Give me liberty or give me death"
  That tell me how you feel.



I am not going to go down and pee back and forth with you about the BIBLE or what JESUS was or is.
All I am asking is do you live what you believe or do you just like to talk it?
Becouse you seem to be very reddy to jump on others here so it just make me wonder.
The way I see it is what ever you believe if it be wrong or right one day there will be no ? about it.
Untill then just think about your walk and if it's up to par with what you say.



Have a graet day and Rom.10:13

Quote from: cafeboy on September 30, 2008, 02:28:47 PM
TrumpetGuy
"Give me liberty or give me death"
  That tell me how you feel.



I am not going to go down and pee back and forth with you about the BIBLE or what JESUS was or is.
All I am asking is do you live what you believe or do you just like to talk it?
Becouse you seem to be very reddy to jump on others here so it just make me wonder.
The way I see it is what ever you believe if it be wrong or right one day there will be no ? about it.
Untill then just think about your walk and if it's up to par with what you say.



Have a graet day and Rom.10:13

Thank you for your kind wishes.   

Back on topic and off of religion.

What do you guys think about Obama going to Kenya and supporting Odinga.

And also, about Obama going overseas and Negotiating with the leaders of other countries (something that, by law, only the current, active president can do)