http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown

intresting eh? comments?

Worse ... these banks are using this cash to swallow up other banks ... making it worse for people ... waaaaaay worse ...

Like I said ... bailing out Idiots encourages them ...

Honestly the first 1-2 that started to get in trouble, I'd have thrown their CEO's in Jail while I looked over their books. Not after looking into the books ... if they convoluted their books, that is all the more time they spend being bubba's girl friend.

The first few homeowners that are defaulting on their houses after re financing their house for 5 times its purchase price and blowing the $$ on hookers and blow ... public flogging, them, and their mortgage broker if they didn't look into the papers or frauded the papers ... they're in for 3-6% so they get 3-6% of the beatings ... do it in 1 city in the case of 2-3 people and watch the default rates drop ... before that make sure you dont let the illegals who overleveraged themselves into a bind leave the country ... they stay illegal and work their debt off ... literally putting them in jail along with true criminals is a powerful incentive ... Heck I can see how a public dragging through the streets and tossing in jail can hurt.

I really dont see anything stopping this ... we will end up at 20 trillion and still have defaults and bank failures. Stop rewarding the crooks and punishing the honest savers. Only way to get out of this mess.

Bail out, is going to make things much much worse ... all the banks are now locked in a race to become "too big to fail" and then they WILL fail. Everyone wants that free money ... and everyone is ensuring that they can fail and cause the most damage. Lehmann brothers failure is a lesson everyone has learn ... they were not too big to fail and kill a significant portion of the economy ... so everyone else is going to get there or try to get there.
Cool.
Buddha.

I thought I said this would happen, maybe on another forum plus many people have decided they don't need to borrow.

And I refinanced my house for the amount I owed, took advanyage of dropping my interest rate 4%. Maybe I should sell it and borrow money again to help the economy?

All the bailout will do is put federal tax income into the pockets of the greedy assholes that caused the whole problem and then our taxes will get raised to pay for it. What they haven't figured out yet is that with the economy in the shitter everyone will pay less taxes because they are making less. I'm down 20% in the last 6 months over my average for the last 4 years or so. At least I'm not unemployed...yet anyway...

People are also to blame- at some point americans must learn not to buy shaZam! they can't afford. It's nice to see people want to juke responisbility in every aspect of life. These dickheads borrow more than they can afford and point the inger at banks for not keeping them from borrowing too much. nobody held a gun to your head making you sign that terrible mortgage you are being buried by jerkoff. Enjoy the horrific intrest rates you have earned by defaulting dork bags.

i do agree that this problem is two-fold......1)shady banks/investment practices and 2) idiots who bought more than they could afford.  i got a fixed rate with my home. we bought it in may of this year. good timing on that i guess.  but it does piss me off that the government has given banks the money they need to lend and kick start the economy again and the bastards are just siting on it. stupid. 

If you want to say that part of the blame rests with the buyers,  I don't agree.  There was no obligation for the lender to make the loan, and the buyers got foreclosed on and lost their house.  The lenders got a house AND will get a government handout for their trouble.  It pays to be a rich businessman. 

OMFG, are you smoking some serious shaZam!?  Part of the blame doesn't belong to the people borrowing with no collateral?  You're right, no blame should be assessed unto them.  They should have their f%$king house taken and my f%$king tax dollars sure as hell shouldn't go towards paying their f%$king mortgage.  With every f%$king breath Obama instills just a little more "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" into his platform and the minds of feeble.

I want you to do something for me TG, actually two things. First, watch the movie 'All the king's men', then if you still don't get it just go ahead and place your teeth on the curb.

The Constitution does NOT provide for our Federal government to do even a fraction of what it has assumed the 'responsibility' of today.  The Federal governement's primary and most important task is the protection of our nation, not assuring that everyone keeps their home when they make bad choices or when others get greedy, not regulating who may or may not marry, not regulating experimental medical practices that involve NO harm to human beings, sure as f%$k not falling into a communist redistribution of wealth-esque system and sure as f%$k the constitution does not allow for some power trippy DC mayor to completely ignore it's basic commandment of individual rights AND the highest court in the land because he thinks he's right.
Last I checked you were about 4 times more likely to be murdered in DC than in Iraq.  That whole gun control thing works f%$king wonders eh?  Yeah, Iraq is bullshit and we don't belong there, but a a withdrawal needs to be carefully planned out so as to cause as few casualties as possible.  I stand firm that we belong in Afghanistan.  Not only are we more than welcome by the current government, we have a duty to rid the world of the scum we so absent-mindedly created.

f%$k I need to break something, people in general are pissing me off.

Buyers don't get all the blame but get a good portion of it for being stupid and living beyond their means, and being enabled to do it by banks with shady practices. Common sense should tell most people if your income is 60k a year you can't afford to buy a $300k house. Just because some bank will lend you the cash doesn't mean it's safe and the buyer is absolved of responsibility for making bad financial decisions. Even the slightest bit of research would have shown buyers that interest rates 2-3 years ago were at or near 40 year lows. So knowing that, why would you buy a home or refinance the home you own with an adjustable rate mortgage? That crap isn't going to adjust down! Also people were refinancing like sonsabitzes to scrape every last penny of equity out of their homes, and then when the home market finally corrected itself and home values drop back to where they should have been realistically they are uspide down in a home- they owe more on it than it's worth to sell because it's mortgaged up the ass, and the interest rates just went up and now the payment is too high. Also, because there is no shortage of stupid people  40% of the homes in your neighborhood are also now for sale because thier owners did the same stupid thing and can't afford the place anymore either, but with so many houses for sale now nobody can sell theirs either. It's bad enough when people get buried in a car like that but sooner or later you are gonna pay one way or the other- you suck up the payment, or lose your property- except the home repo man knows where to find it. I bought my first home 6 years ago on a fixed rate loan of 6% with no mortgage insurance because I'm a veteran- I could have saved 1.5-2% on the interest with an APR, but I didn't see the interest rates staying that low for much longer. I chose right and all these people getting foreclosed on made their own beds by buying more than they could afford and financing it with interest-only loans and cashing in on the equity to buy that new car or boat. F them- nobody made them buy that crap, and any loan officer than profited by helping tie the noose should go to jail and so should the executives that encouraged these business practices- but now every tax payer is gonna have to fork it over to make up for these deadbeats and it's bs. I'm gonna have to pay more taxes for other idiots that weren't smart enough to do even the slightest bit of research before commiting to spend a huge sum of money over a long period of time they knew they just couldn't afford on the income they had available

The bail out money should be given to people who are paying their bills and current on everything as a reward. The rest of the defaulting Idiots need to be punished. That will teach them the right values of risk and reward. You want to enourage homeownership, encourage it by rewarding people who are not delinquent, and you will pump up the economy too ... but pumping the money back into the system ... the current people are the ones who are keeping this boat afloat remember. Every time one of those people drop into default, its one more blow to the economy.
Cool.
Buddha.

Hell I would just divide the 700 billion among taxpayers. if everyone got 20k tax free how many of those loans might become good again? That would help the banks from the ground up rather than expecting those thieving bastards to do the right thing and have it trickle down. Shure, a bunch of dumbasses would take the money and buy a new car or whatever but that still helps the economy and I think some dude facing the real possibility of losing their home would likely make the right decision. Of course I suppose many would not.

Its 4K per head. It had to be split right, remember only 3% is supposedly in default. Someone who is on the hook to lose 100K +, in fact there is people losing 3-4-500K ... check this out http://flippersintrouble.blogspot.com/ ... is not going to bother with that 4K. That 4K should be apportioned out over 2-4 years for paying all your bills, like the bush tax cut of 300 bucks for 07. Only its a good behaviour check. The hope of that reward will keep the marginal ones in line, if we hand out that $ to the ones who are delinquent, the marginal ones will jump right into that default situation. I mean how hard is it to become a deadbeat especially if "everyone is doing it".

Literally we need to get those people tossed in jail to be bubba's girl friend. That is the punishment for being delinquent. Overcrowding in jails ... who cares ... in fact these people get ankle bracelets and they get to their regular job everyday and live in jail, where we charge them rent, we also rent their houses at market rates, and garnish their pay for the remainng ... whatever is left over they get to keep in a savings account. Then when their balance is paid in full we get their records expunged and let them back into real life. Of course they can voluntarily offer to do this, and stay in the house and pay all the bills and live within their means, get the reward money and not be bubba's girl friend. Of course they fall off that wagon, its back to bubba.

BTW that is true communism ... however its communism only for those who cannot manage their money ... its regular democracy for everyone else ... and we only have to do it to a few 100 very public cases ... first start off by dragging Michael Perry, Angelo mozillo, duck Fuld etc etc to jail. Then do it to Casey Serin (the one who started Imfacingforeclosure.com) and literally call the TV stations to watch as he gets tossed in the squad car, have a ticker that says Casey serin defaulted on mortgages worth 2.2 million in 2006 and 2007, he was a web designer making 60,000 year and he bought houses for 2.2 million ... etc etc ... all the way to his jail cell as he is being tried. See how quickly the defaults turn back to current.

We need a pretty big stick, that 4K tax break is just the carrot. This will be the stick. Its called debtors prison, and its needed now more than at any other time in history. The flip side is, if someone is getting current on their mortgage, they should not be charged the idiotic fees and this and that the banks charge for every minute they are late going back to 3 months ago. That will be another of those reasons the banks are getting CEO's tossed in jail.

700B FOR GOOD PEOPLE SPREAD OVER 2-3 YEARS, JAIL FOR THE DELINQUENTS.

Cool.
Buddha.

the banks also should be forced to work with people to get these loans right. now, there are some people(like my father-in-law) who got a fixed rate and could afford the payment on the house and then suddenly lost their job and the new one doesn't pay as well so they're behind and being forclosed on. of course i see that position entirely different then those who bought with the adjustable rate crap.

I dunno, my method obviously has its flaws ... I would just say on a case by case basis. But the en masse speculators and gamblers need to be tossed in jail and forced to work off their debt. But the legit cases the system is designed to deal with that.
Maybe if the house isn't worth the outstanding mortgage and the situation is beyond the owners control, and the rest of the situation is all legit, then foreclosure is the recourse. And it can be erased from the owners records.
Remember the system is designed to accomodate maybe 100,000 foreclosures a year ... now everyone is throwing their keys in. So you have 3 million foreclosures where there should be 30,000 it kills the values of everyone else. The forcible rent and work and prison type system will cut down that 3 million to 30,000 or so which will be all the genuine ones. Some of them can sell and walk away if values were not plummeting due to the other 2.7 million.
Most of the crap we see on TV and the net is BS cases. In fact, we should not be borrowing money at all to buy houses. That way houses will also stay inexpensive, as well as small, and on lots that are well sized. People will buy a small house and build more one room at a time types. But yea, heating systems and what not wont be right for doing that ... too many flaws with all the options.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: spc on October 28, 2008, 09:29:55 PM
OMFG, are you smoking some serious oh my goodness?  Part of the blame doesn't belong to the people borrowing with no collateral?

If I go to my neighborhood bank and tell them I want to start a business, but I have no ability to pay them back, and they go ahead and loan me the money, how in the world am I the one smoking crack here? 

Banks got overly greedy, period.  They knew a certain percentage of borrowers would default so they went ahead and loaned the money in ARMs.  They gambled.   More people defaulted at the same time the real estate price bubble burst.  They lost.  Now THEY get government handouts and the borrowers lose their credit, their equity, and their house.  That's "fair"?

no, it's not fair. all we're trying to say is that you can't place the blame entirely on the bank. when you signed your paperwork, if you knew the rate would go up, chances are you also knew what the payment would be when/if your rate went up. you also should have known if you could afford the loan even with the new rate. if you knew you couldn't afford the higher rate when you got it then you are to blame for taking out the loan just as much as the bank is to blame for giving you the loan. i can't afford a $1,000+ car payment, so therefore i do not drive a $100k car and did not take a loan out for one, even if i have the credit score that says i can get one. the same common sense should have been applied by more people with their home loans.

Quote from: jserio on October 29, 2008, 05:03:22 PM
no, it's not fair. all we're trying to say is that you can't place the blame entirely on the bank. when you signed your paperwork, if you knew the rate would go up, chances are you also knew what the payment would be when/if your rate went up. you also should have known if you could afford the loan even with the new rate. if you knew you couldn't afford the higher rate when you got it then you are to blame for taking out the loan just as much as the bank is to blame for giving you the loan. i can't afford a $1,000+ car payment, so therefore i do not drive a $100k car and did not take a loan out for one, even if i have the credit score that says i can get one. the same common sense should have been applied by more people with their home loans.

Exactly my point. I have the income and credit to largely be able to purchase any car I would like to own under 75k or so, but know that if anything went south with my job (as it is currently) or my wife's we would be hosed- so we don't have a luxury sport coupe even though I would really like to have an M3. Common sense really isn't that common these days I'm afraid. The banks are defineltey to blame, but so are the customers- but I think the customers more so, because they should have known when the bank says no problem to a home loan on a house too expensive to match their income that the bank is doing what they do best- get rich off the little guy by screwing him blue.

Many of these buyers were told by loan officers that the rate wouldn't go up, even if the fine print said it could.  "And we can get you into a nicer house this way..."

Of course, a prudent person would not borrow more than they could afford to pay back.  But then again, no one held a gun to the bank's head and said you must loan them money.  The banks were greedy and they were careless.  And just when they were about to suffer the lesson of their greed, in jumps Uncle Sam with a handout.

And some of you are quick to call small payments to poor people "socialism."  That is SMALL BEANS socialism compared to the Wall Street handouts and no-bid contracts to donors during an elective war.

Quote from: The Buddha on October 29, 2008, 07:48:31 AM
The bail out money should be given to people who are paying their bills and current on everything as a reward. The rest of the defaulting Idiots need to be punished. That will teach them the right values of risk and reward. You want to enourage homeownership, encourage it by rewarding people who are not delinquent, and you will pump up the economy too ... but pumping the money back into the system ... the current people are the ones who are keeping this boat afloat remember. Every time one of those people drop into default, its one more blow to the economy.
Cool.
Buddha.

BING effing GO !

Quote from: bikejunkie223 on October 29, 2008, 06:36:13 PM

Quote from: jserio on October 29, 2008, 05:03:22 PM
no, it's not fair. all we're trying to say is that you can't place the blame entirely on the bank. when you signed your paperwork, if you knew the rate would go up, chances are you also knew what the payment would be when/if your rate went up. you also should have known if you could afford the loan even with the new rate. if you knew you couldn't afford the higher rate when you got it then you are to blame for taking out the loan just as much as the bank is to blame for giving you the loan. i can't afford a $1,000+ car payment, so therefore i do not drive a $100k car and did not take a loan out for one, even if i have the credit score that says i can get one. the same common sense should have been applied by more people with their home loans.

Exactly my point. I have the income and credit to largely be able to purchase any car I would like to own under 75k or so, but know that if anything went south with my job (as it is currently) or my wife's we would be hosed- so we don't have a luxury sport coupe even though I would really like to have an M3. Common sense really isn't that common these days I'm afraid. The banks are defineltey to blame, but so are the customers- but I think the customers more so, because they should have known when the bank says no problem to a home loan on a house too expensive to match their income that the bank is doing what they do best- get rich off the little guy by screwing him blue.

nice, nice. you know there are 72, and even 80, yes EIGHTY month car loans now, right ? 80 months, that's 7 1/2 freaking years (ok, 7 years, 8 months)  to pay off a POS car. a car. not a small business loan to move into a bigger facility, or a machine to MAKE PROFIT for you, but a stinking, oops-it-might-get-scratched-and-cost-me-MORE-money!, lame, crap box. bmw, lexus, whatever. it's still just a stinkin car.

by the way, the local KIA dealers are advertising to 'help' people that were just foreclosed, lost their job, car, whatever. great, a POS kia, 72 months to pay the pos off, and STILL no common sense !

my crapbox truck started the 2nd time this morning (hey, it was 33f out, and it's carburated, yay!) kept me warm all the way to work, and the radio works. 20 years old, and it's still just as much a crapbox as a brand new one. but it's paid for. so's the houses, and the dog house I bought for my mutt today. eff the credit cards. the lady in  front of me was charging a computer desk on her platinum visa. yes, a COMPUTER DESK from wally world. that pos will fall apart before she gets the bill, she'll default the credit, and owe 26 times it's worth... oh i'm ranting.

end

What crisis? I saw £73 knocked off my monthly mortgage payment today, that is equivilent to a before tax salary increase of about £1.3K pa  ....3 years ago everyone said DONT take out a Tracker mortgage, the rate is gonna skyrocket......well here I am laughing my plums off.