yeah and liberals are perfect godly types Eh? who never do anythign wrong [/sarcasm]

we are angles    seriously though name a liberal/dem who stated a war, lied to congress,  wiped their ass with the constitution,  imprisoned thousands with no rights....hrm i can't think of any.  bush/cheney/reps are SOOO bad that they even screwed mccain.  this is not just a win it is a landslide victory.  god i am going to be impossible to live with the next eight  years lol.

Quote from: frankieG on November 05, 2008, 03:56:53 AM
we are angles    seriously though name a liberal/dem who stated a war, lied to congress,  wiped their ass with the constitution,  imprisoned thousands with no rights....hrm i can't think of any.  bush/cheney/reps are SOOO bad that they even screwed mccain.  this is not just a win it is a landslide victory.  god i am going to be impossible to live with the next eight  years lol.

bill clinton, somalia, bosnia lets see. hmm i know there are others

your ignorance is showing. i served and faught in somalia and bosnia, somalia was a UN mission and Bosnia was a NATO mission.  to this day no one says, at least intelligent people, that we should not have been in somalia or bosnia.  two are only mentioned, vietnam and iraq.

f%$k OFF (edited out of respect and because i wont lower my intelligence to name calling). somalia wwe were there bosnia was painted over us warplanes play thre f%$king audio

Quote from: frankieG on November 05, 2008, 04:18:27 AM
your ignorance is showing. i served and faught in somalia and bosnia, somalia was a UN mission and Bosnia was a NATO mission.  to this day no one says, at least intelligent people, that we should not have been in somalia or bosnia.  two are only mentioned, vietnam and iraq.

yeah you fought everyhwere. and the liberals lost vietnam for us and are trying to do so in iraq. ido NOT appreciate the name calling at all. ive had it i am done here. take care

whoa someone is a sore loser lol..language young man

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 05, 2008, 02:07:31 AM
every time he says change i rummage through my pockets. weird Eh?. but hey hes in, it may be a bumpy ride. im ready for what ever may or may not happen. no one knows cept him and god . so like i said, im ready. hell if it gets bad enough ill go to canada, or over tofamily home in the uk ( but that is a last resort though. meh ill just deal with it lmao

When you rummage in your pockets, have you found Obama's hand in there yet? it will be soon- no doubt!

Quote from: frankieG on November 05, 2008, 04:18:27 AM
your ignorance is showing. i served and faught in somalia and bosnia, somalia was a UN mission and Bosnia was a NATO mission.  to this day no one says, at least intelligent people, that we should not have been in somalia or bosnia.  two are only mentioned, vietnam and iraq.

Yeah but both places are so much better off now right? We sent in troops long enough to figure out there wasn't any oil and then bailed- and those countries are back where they were before. No disrespect to your service record- but those 2 conflicts really accomplished very little in the long term and the UN is basically pointless at this point.

Also I'd like someone to explain how a 4% win in the popular vote equals a landslide? 4% of anything is pretty small- the electoral college is retarded and I just don't get why the people don't get to have their voice truly heard for president. I mean in Oregon a republican presidental candidate hasn't won squat here in 25 years or more- so basically republicans here have no voice. Seems like we could go straight up popular vote at this point.

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 05, 2008, 04:10:44 AM
bill clinton, somalia, bosnia lets see. hmm i know there are others

Yama, you have been drinking the Republican cool-aid again. Who got us into Somalia - George Herbert Walker Bush. Why? hard to be sure, but given the timing (right after he lost the election), probably because he wanted to leave a mess that would be embarrassing for Bill Clinton. If that involved killing some of our troops, he didn't seem to care much. I seriously doubt he did it for the Somalis' benefit.

W, following in daddy's footsteps, is no doubt trying to figure out what new dumb-ass thing he can do in the next two months to make a bigger mess than he already has for Obama to clean up, and he won't care what that does to troops or country, either.

As for the question of the topic - centrists that Fox "news" thinks are liberals are good for the economy because they are not deluded idiots who think that borrowing from the Chinese to buy crap from China is better than facing the facts. And that's without even getting into their hypocritical social views...

FDR was a democrat and unquestionably he was the sole President responsible for getting us into WWII, Truman was a democrat and responsible for Korea, Johnson got us into Vietnam and many argue that Jackie-boys lack of action neccesitated that move so there's two democrats responsible for that one.


AND......it was under the Carter administration that we started supplying rebellions (ahem...afghanistan) with weapons to fight their wars............if we hadn't given the weapons to OBL, nature would have taken it's course and Russia would have over-run Afghanistan decades ago and we would have been save a very costly war.

and had they let Patton crush russia long ago things might be different there too. 

Quote from: The Buddha on November 03, 2008, 08:55:44 AM
Its somehow thrown about as fact ... like the sun rises in the east, the water in the ocean is salty, and liberals are good for the economy ... WTF ... how did we get there from here ...

Have you been paying attention the last 8 years? The repubs have ruined EVERYTHING they touch: taxes, education, environment, civil liberties, war in iraq, war in afghan, and the economy.

They have royally f%&ked UP the economy. I'm hearing things like "the greatest economic disaster since the great depression". HAHA Stupid republicans.

The less repubs in Fed gov't the happier I am..

Quote from: frankieG on November 05, 2008, 04:18:27 AM
your ignorance is showing. i served and faught in somalia and bosnia, somalia was a UN mission and Bosnia was a NATO mission.  to this day no one says, at least intelligent people, that we should not have been in somalia or bosnia.  two are only mentioned, vietnam and iraq.

haha. I love it. yama is such a staunch republican. It's great. You could tell him GWB eats babies for breakfast and he would find a way to defend it.

Of course I KNEW he would mention Bill Clinton. When Bill Clinton lied he was f%$king Monica L. When GWB lied he was f%$king the entire nation. LOL!

FYI, Clinton started the economic deregulation.

There are many people to blame for our current economy.  But, only one group of people that can make it right:  Us Americans.

SPC, Don't forget WWI and Pres. Wilson.

Yep, Plenty of wars started by Dems.

This Isn't getting us anywhere though.

eMouse is right. It's up to all of us to get thru this. I'm willing to give Obama the chance to do a great job. That way we all win.

I don't agree with him on ideology but our system works much better than the system in place where I grew up.

I grew up in Guatemala, I was there from 1964 to 1976. Went thru two periods of martial law with the military taking over the government.

That sucked big time.

We got it good here.

Besafe

Quote from: tussey on November 05, 2008, 04:42:25 PM

Quote from: frankieG on November 05, 2008, 04:18:27 AM
your ignorance is showing. i served and faught in somalia and bosnia, somalia was a UN mission and Bosnia was a NATO mission.  to this day no one says, at least intelligent people, that we should not have been in somalia or bosnia.  two are only mentioned, vietnam and iraq.

haha. I love it. yama is such a staunch republican. It's great. You could tell him GWB eats babies for breakfast and he would find a way to defend it.

Of course I KNEW he would mention Bill Clinton. When Bill Clinton lied he was f%$king Monica L. When GWB lied he was f%$king the entire nation. LOL!

tussey. you know i hate labels, dont be like frankie and throw labels when you dont know. any of it. BUT ill give you partial credit. unlike many liberals, notice i said many, not all)anyhoo partial credit, i am Staunch. but not a republican. this year yeah i voted repub for pres, demo for state congress.  i voted mostly 50/50 im staunch, but not republican, kinda like someone being a democrat but not liberal. yeah there are such tings. any hoo i ocnsider myself a saunch conservative. but my political views are more independant than either demican or republicrat. barring that court thing, if it passes and there is nothing to go on. ill support teh pres to be. i mean w e only have to deal with him for 4 years ( minimum)

See I am also an independent (don't vote in primaries here in OR) but tend to lean conservative. Where I fly away from the Republicans is with all of the religious angles and justifications for their policies, and where I differ from Democrats is with their idea that every single person should be able to have the government hold their hand and make everything better, and all the people who worked hard for what they have can pay for that BS with increased taxes. Especially since they do a horrific job spending the taxes they already collect, but constantly refuse to streamline government so naturally raising taxes is the answer. Republicans aren't off the hook either- they do the same crap, except their projects are for multi-billion dollar weapons systems that have no real use in urban guerrilla warfare, for a war we shouldn't even be in- and instead of raising taxes, they cut taxes for the rich and let the deficit balloon so they can almost say with a straight face "see, I told you I would cut taxes" and they did- just not for you, for their rich constituents. Our system is so broken no president is going to fix anything in the next decade.

BTW, last night I went to sleep in a 2 party state, and woke up in a one party state. Democrats now hold every marble there is in Oregon- They have a super majority in the state house, senate, the Governor, Sec. of State, Attorney General, and Treasurer. On top of that in an incredibly close race our 12 year republican senator was ousted for a Democrat empty suit who is basically a free vote for the democratic party in Washington. I mean they took care of all his mudslinging ads for him, and basically ran on the "Republicans enjoy killing kittens and playing Yahtzee with W so vote for Merkley" A state senator who has done little more than jack taxes at every opportunity while accomplishing nothing for the state. It's nice to see the opinions of Oregon are based solely on the Portland Metro area. Look at this map: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/

God damn I hate politics...

i may have been a bit off when i was comparing Iraq to Vietnam.  so far, in gross numbers,  we have 33,000 wounded in Vietnam it was around 150,000.  quite a difference....i guess i should have checked my numbers first.

Vietnam

Country Branch of service Number served Killed Wounded Missing
USA[2] Army 4,368,000 38,218 96,802 617 {A}
Marines 794,000 14,840 51,392 242{B}
Navy 1,842,000 2,565 4,178 401{C}
Air Force 1,740,000 2,587 1,021 649 {D}
Coast Guard  7 59 0 {E}
Civilians    38 {F}
Total 8,744,000 58,217 153,452 1,947

Iraq

4,119 dead as of July 15th 2008. As of March 2008 there were 8,914 wounded requiring medical air transport. 20,416 wounded did not require medical air transport. Of all the wounded 13,109 were unable to return to duty within 72 hours. Medical air transport was required for an additional 8,273 for non-hostile injuries, and for 23,052 for diseases or other medical conditions. [59][60][61][62][63]