went for an estate sale bargain hunt with the wife today. found a big house, on a big property, with a big empty feeling inside. most of the nicer bits were gone, the projector from the home theatre, the nicer mercedes from the garage, the nicer art pieces from the walls.

there was an older gentleman seeing to things. figured he was the executor, and didn't think much else about him. there was an office, a mans office, with plaques, awards, accreditations, accolades, and certificates of doctorate( S ). figured someone was long gone to the hiway in the sky, and had a good life.

when we looked for someone to pay for the couple of tools, chain-fall, etc from the garage, he enlightened us. he was the previous owner of the house and land. and the mercedes. and the boats. and the grandfather in the pictures on the walls. and the man whose name was on all those certificates and achievements in the office.

he asked how many kids we had (guess he just knows after seeing a few couples) and asked about genetics, so we told him the little bit we knew. nice guy, took notes, seemed interested, the kind that never stops learning. sponge for knowledge ? maybe.

his big house was empty, no kids around, no grandkids, no family. no money. not sure where he was going to live when the bank took his house. yep. foreclosure. didn't want to talk about it much, but you could tell he needed a talk. just not with strangers.

the wife and i talked about it on the way home. how a doctor could end up in that position. why his kids weren't there helping. all the whys and hows.

thought about myself, if my kids will be there when i'm aging and feeble. man, hope we're doing things right. hope they will be.

there, covered the subject line i guess. recession, depression, reflection. you just never know how things can change.

Indeed, i know of one ( same type of situation) happened about 10 years back. a bit depressing

spending more than one has does not discriminate.  it is not just the banks, lenders, Realtors or the myriad of people/professions in the industry that are to blame. it is those who purchased these huge dungeon like homes that they did not need nor could afford.   there is plenty of blame to go around.

Yea, I dont feel bad for people who got them selvs in over their heads... My wife and I dont make a ton of $ but we own our own home and stay within our means of paying for things

Me well I work three jobs now and have had to go in debt the past 10 years just to Pretty well Survive.The rest of the debt was Done just to be able to Help make a Living.With the 1 Full time Job and the 2 Part time Jobs I'm having to Scrape to be able to pay the Debt off and still be able to eat.I don't really own anything and the only thing I have to show for the Debt is all of these Suzuki parts in my bedroom that I was doing really well at selling until the Post office raised the rates. Anybody want to buy $100K worth of Suzuki parts for $10K? I'll throw every bike I own in with them.Well Except for my 68 and 69 T500's

How can you not live off the money put together by 1 full time job and 2 part time jobs? If you can't then you really need to rethink, i know we've heard in other topics that you 'just cant let some of these jobs go' well mate, let me tell you something, NO ONE looks after you ONLY YOU. You may feel that you cant give up some jobs for sentimental reasons but they arnt paying you enough to live and theyre taking up any time you have to go out and get a job that will pay for you to live. Your either not as bad off as you feel (say) or you need to pack in running around like a mug and go out and find a decent wage with the skills you have that can pay off your debts and you can live on. Also do you really have 100k?s worth of parts in your bedroom, thats another thing you can't do, you can't hold on to them for the hope that someone will pay the price you want for it for one item. You'd be best going to fixers, breakers and selling them your parts in bulk. Sure you may take a huge hit on them but if you need the money you need the money. Luxuary's such as owning a 68,69 T500 are only good if you can actually afford to live. if you can't they also go.

Im single, work 1 full time job (air traffic) and a summer job (harvest on a farm) and am managing to pay rent, own a car and a motorcycle and feed myself. Im 19 and when i set off at 17 i had no qualifiactions other than high school (6th form for you UK people) so i have A levels in Physics, Maths, Psychology but not amazing grades. I searched for ages found a job in the industry i wanted to work in (air traffic control/flying) and applied for the lowest position there and worked my way up, i now have a couple more qualifications and am now training to be an air traffic controller (on a modular basis) within a year. Im not taking holidays and use all my works holiday through the summer months to take time off my full time job to do the harvest as its a good cash boost to top up my income. I don't buy new, i don't buy anything unless ive saved up for it, both the car and motorcycle have been bought with cash when i had the money. I ebay all the stuff i grow out of, or don't need anymore. If i upgrade anything i sell the old stuff. I consider myself to work hard and have a good life and my annual income is probably £22k at the moment $44k in US money i shud think.

Im not trying to critizise at all, every month i have to concnetrate on where im spending my money to be able to afford to learn to fly to give me even more career prospects, ive got my car to get MOT'd this month and some other bits and pieces done on it which i need to budget for and at the end of the month there wont be anything left but then you get paid again and can work on the next month. When times are hard you have to cut down to a minimum, look where you money is being wasted and come up with a plan to fix it.

If your working 3 jobs, im sure you have some pretty damn good skills you could apply to somewhere, look where your skills would work and start applying for jobs. Theres no point taking a shitty paid job if its not going to even meet our outgoings. Reduce the outgoings as much as you can, find what you need to be earning to live and eat every month, and then look for jobs which are going to get you there. Be inventive, theres tonnes you can do!

Yeah I'm a Skilled Carpenter,Electrician,Plumber ETC. The Jobs are getting Harder and Harder to find around Here.Business was Booming around here back several Months ago but it's just about like it is everywhere Else.The reason I'm holding onto the Parts is because I haven't had time to try to sell them.All three of my Jobs will be getting really slow in the Next few weeks so maybe I'll try ebay Again.I'd like to be able to do Inventory and stick everything on Ebay all at once but I know I'll never get what I have in it out of it now.

Could always come to the UK, plumbers particularly in the south are taking home exec pay theyre so sought after. If times are hard sometimes you have to sell things for a loss.

living within one's means is a good thing. agreed.

i can only speculate on what caused his financial problems. just this morning, while driving to a hilltop to shoot, i heard this:

in some states, if you have not checked your balance, or deposited funds in any account within 3 years, the state seizes the assests. CD's and other deposites are NOT IMMUNE. Deposit boxes (used to be called safe deposits) are not immune either.

check your local laws.

there are people that counted on a CD (college graduation gifts, etc) for buying a house, which is JUST GONE. states recieve on average 500 million a year from this kind of seizure.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS, CHECK YOUR ACCOUNTS, CD's IRA's, retirement funds, etc.

someone wants your money worse than you, and will steal it in a heartbeat !

Sounds like he squandered the inheritance and the expectant offspring no longer have use for him.

Quote from: frankieG on November 16, 2008, 04:06:53 AM
spending more than one has does not discriminate.  it is not just the banks, lenders, Realtors or the myriad of people/professions in the industry that are to blame. it is those who purchased these huge dungeon like homes that they did not need nor could afford.   there is plenty of blame to go around.

BINGO, i can snip off the rest. but leave "could not afford" and frankie hits it on the head. house can be dungeon like or a f%$king mobile home. but all the same 

Quote from: ohgood on November 16, 2008, 05:33:44 PM
living within one's means is a good thing. agreed.

i can only speculate on what caused his financial problems. just this morning, while driving to a hilltop to shoot, i heard this:

in some states, if you have not checked your balance, or deposited funds in any account within 3 years, the state seizes the assets. CD's and other deposits are NOT IMMUNE. Deposit boxes (used to be called safe deposits) are not immune either.

check your local laws.

there are people that counted on a CD (college graduation gifts, etc) for buying a house, which is JUST GONE. states receive on average 500 million a year from this kind of seizure.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS, CHECK YOUR ACCOUNTS, CD's IRA's, retirement funds, etc.

someone wants your money worse than you, and will steal it in a heartbeat !

i believe it is called "counting your chickens before they hatched"  there is absolutely no need for anyone to hold more than one job.  unless they are living above their means.   so if u want to live like a king but do not have the money then what?  downsize to what you can afford. then either stay there or get an education so that you may get a job that pays enough to live the style you wish to.    i mean really take a look around your place.  what do you need? what do you have? what do you REALLY NEED to live.  you are watching too much TV and spending too much money.  the motorcycle, the HDTV, HDTV signal, PS 3 or what have you.  got a bunch of kids that you need to support? BIRTH CONTROL, invented in the 1920's....i am pretty sure it is readily available now.   i suspect much of your income is going to health care.  if we had universal health care like the rest of the G-8 countries this would not be an issue.  currently i am living in Canada.  i pay ZERO for health care, nothing at all and i get treated on a timely basis by professionals that are equal to that of my home country of America.  my mother, who is a nurse and works for a private hospital pays 350 a month for health care and has to fight for benefits all the time.  she had a stroke 18 months ago and they sent her home without rehab rather than paying the bill.   "but my taxes will go through the roof"!!! no, Canada does not have higher taxes than the US...about the same give or take a few points.  what is different is that Canada does not spend the bulk of its tax payer dollars on the military and police.  i don't see or hear of any terrorist attacks on Canada.  the attacks are on the countries, Britain and America, that stick their noses where they don't belong. but even Britain manages to give their citizens the basic right of health care.  we, Americans, have been told to spend spend spend.  you all remember bush our great president telling us to do that?  f%$king idiot.  he could not organize a blow job at a chicken suckers convention.  he is so f%$king stupid and the worst part is that people actually listen to him. our debt is unpayable...absolutely unpayable.  the whole system is going to collapse. it may be 10 years it may be 100 years who knows but there is no way it can be paid.  we don't have a balance budget let alone one that will pay off the debt. we are not able to pay the interest.  other g-8 countries not only have had balanced budgets but are working quickly to pay off their debts.  they have the light at the end of the tunnel that we in America do not have.  unabashed capitalism does not work. it is a flawed concept that is doomed to failure.   the last great depression was broken by a world war, deaths of millions and then a baby boom.  are we to repeat this?    you want to save some money so you shop at walmart.  your money goes straight to china which holds most of the American debt.  both china and Russia are in very strong positions to keep America in check.  Russia is the lesser of the two.  but china holds our purse strings.  if they call in those debts we are ruined.  if we don't pay china has the means to force us too.  and i am not speaking of just the courts.  what china lacks in technology it certainly makes up in man power, money and natural resources. in a all out war with china we don't stand a chance.  that may be hard for many of you to swallow having being spoon fed the "American superpower" propaganda that we have seen and heard the last 50 years or so.   at best we can come up with 2 million soldiers. china can more than triple that.  the bomb, they have it, resources? they have more than us, money? they have more? technology? they are behind but not as far as we are led to believe.   OK to sum up this rant.  we need to stop spending over our limits. not just in government but all of us.  i mean cut spending by 1/3.  it is going to hurt but it is the only way we can save ourselves.  the best place to cut is in the military and policing.  the USSR collapsed because they could not keep up with military and policing expenditures. now we are next on the list.  STOP spending.  save your money, stay withing your means.  get rid of the credit cards. demand that your elected officials cut spending but increase health care and human services.  it is not socialism it is humanism.  there is no other choice if we are to survive as a people and nation.

actually in canada you pay for it. ( healthcare) its called taxes frankie . nothing is free 

Yea but the taxes arnt significantly higher than they would be in the US for the healtcare. Plus its a part of life. I suspect the equivelant cost of NHS healthcare (altho not as good a private) its miniscule in comparison to your healthcare payments each month.

Quotewhat china lacks in technology it certainly makes up in man power, money and natural resources. in a all out war with china we don't stand a chance.  that may be hard for many of you to swallow having being spoon fed the "American superpower" propaganda that we have seen and heard the last 50 years or so.]what china lacks in technology it certainly makes up in man power, money and natural resources. in a all out war with china we don't stand a chance.  that may be hard for many of you to swallow having being spoon fed the "American superpower" propaganda that we have seen and heard the last 50 years or so.

Ok, I was pretty much with you up to this point. They may be able to sail over to Taiwan and invade, but there is a lot more water between us and them. Although they have the means to get a few warheads here, we have way more of them. Did I mention that there are still a few militarily powerful allies (including the country you reside in) that we haven't pissed off yet? It's not propaganda, we're just not "walking softly".

1.  The original intent of this was to have sympathy for those who have lost much of what they own.
2.  The OP gave an example of a conservative fellow who has fallen on hard times.
3.  Not everyone who is economically in a bad place today ended up there as a result of their own fiscal irresponsibility.  No one, except for an exceptional minority of economists, saw the housing market crashing, interest rates increasing massively, and the stock market taking a huge hit.  Those who just retired are in especially bad places right now.

Lets save the healthcare cost discussion for another thread.  Yes, all countries pay healthcare costs in one form or another.  In that thread, I hope percentage of GDP, total $ spent per person, and resulting life expectancy are discussed, as well as the citizen's happiness with their health care. 

it should go without saying that taxes pay for the health care...but for those that need to be told....in Canada your taxes pay for health care.  simple?   often you will hear that taxes in Canada are way higher than in the US.  this is not true.  taxes in Canada are higher than the US but only marginally.  it depends on province and state so the numbers can be difficult to match.  taxation in Canada is 37% of GDP whilst in the US it is 27% overall.  Canada's deficit is 1 % of GDP while US is 4%.  Canada gets the majority of its taxes from the 50% in the higher income brackets while America is the opposite. the lower 50% pay more taxes than the "rich".   overall Canada is 39% whilst America is 38%.  there is no real differences in the amount per capita it is how it is captured and used.  also the adage that Americans are richer is not true.  Although wealth is more highly concentrated in the U.S., the median (50th percentile) worker has essentially the same purchasing power in each nation. In terms of purchasing power parity, the most recent statistics from the IMF has Canada (US $35,494) lower than that in the United States (US $43,444).  just a note i am getting my info from some of my business school text, the economist magazine and of course wiki.   personally i prefer to live in America rather than Canada even with the health care difference.  i love the purchasing power, i love the fact i can get what ever i want when ever i want it.  i get much more respect as a retired service member home than i do in Canada.  i just wish there were some changes made at home...that's all.   if it came down to it and i was forces to give up one of my passports it would be my Canadian one without  hesitation.  i am red white and blue from the inside and out.  i just have the privilege of dual citizenship and the knowledge that comes from calling two countries home.

Quote from: scottpA_GS on November 16, 2008, 09:25:59 AM

Yea, I dont feel bad for people who got them selvs in over their heads... My wife and I dont make a ton of $ but we own our own home and stay within our means of paying for things

And you and me too ... as well as the Gstwin cheapskates (obviously we are all here cos we dont run and buy hayabusas on credit, cos we are frugal and smart) ... are going to be hit just as hard.

I see this scene playing out, I wish someone could paint it.

I see people ... several 100 of them sitting, kneeling, standing lying down ... and I see other people beating them, kicking them ... I see the govt looking at this scene ... and looking ... and looking ... for years.
Then the govt acts ... they yell, they scream ... they send out what look like uniformed and disciplined paramedics and counsellors and doctors and firefighters and cops ... and people carrying medical kits.
They run to the middle of the field where the beating was occouring ...
And I see the paramedics helping and applying first aid, and counselling, and treatment, for the people who were beating the other people.

End of story ... scottpA_GS - we get the beating, then our tax dollars are going to first aid for the people beaitng us.

That's how taxation works.
Cool.
Buddha.