All of the "big 3" are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, especially since americans have stopped buying cars regardless of brand because nobody is confident they will have a job tomorrow to pay for them. I feel bad for the workers but the United Autoworkers Union is partly to blame for the problems. The big 3 have to pay upwards of $30 an hour more than toyota or honda do because they didn't stand up to the unions when they had a chance 15 years ago. The companies are to blame because they didn't learn any of the lessons the oil embargo of the 70's should have taught them and instead of building quality cars they effectively exited the car buisness to sell high-propfit trucks and SUV's. Now they want the government to bail them out. I say tough rocks pal- you weren't giving the government a bailout while you made massive profits of fuel guzzlers and now that you can't sell them and all your cars suck you are gonna go out of buisness. too effin' bad jerkoffs.

Quote from: chipster on November 14, 2008, 01:35:52 PM
Also dont expect me to pay more money for a lesser or equal product because it was Union Made. Times are tough, my money goes where I get the best bang for my buck. 

Replace "union" with "American" and we have arrived at the root of our problems. Even when times are good, 90+% of American consumers will buy the imported product, even if it's only pennies cheaper. They don't bother to look at where it was made and most wouldn't care anyway. Globalization is a fancy way of saying "spreading the wealth" on a much, much grander scale.

Quote from: gearman on November 14, 2008, 07:08:46 PM

Quote from: chipster on November 14, 2008, 01:35:52 PM
Also dont expect me to pay more money for a lesser or equal product because it was Union Made. Times are tough, my money goes where I get the best bang for my buck. 

Replace "union" with "American" and we have arrived at the root of our problems. Even when times are good, 90+% of American consumers will buy the imported product, even if it's only pennies cheaper. They don't bother to look at where it was made and most wouldn't care anyway. Globalization is a fancy way of saying "spreading the wealth" on a much, much grander scale.

And while we're at it, lets focus on the act of paying pennies (or 2 %) less for a product. Where does that 2 % not spent go ? No where really. Not invested, not saved, just spent on some other piece of crap.


I don't blame unions, they're just workin stiffs. The ones to blame are the people that make the rules (which car gets a green light,  for production) at the TOP. The guys showing up 5 days a week just turn wrenches and pay their bills.

i would have bought a GM or another "american" brand when i bought my toyota. in fact, i went to ford first. test drove a little fusion. nice car but i wanted to shop around. the toyota was not only 1k cheaper, but an all around nicer car. handled better. the ride is smoother. gets better gas mileage. (okay, only like 2-3mpg but still). so, i feel i got the best bang for my buck. if american companies had the best bang for my buck, they would get my buck. 

Im in the market for a '90 ford escort myself.  It was my first car and I miss it.  Great little car. Never gave me any problems.  38-45mpg on the highway.  Solid as a rock, Little sherman tank.   

Everyone is talking like if GM goes bankrupt that there won't be any GM cars.  Bankrupt doesn't necessarily mean out of business.  Chapter 11 bankrupt means protection from creditors so you can reorganizing the business so it can survive and make profit in the future.  Because of this, I think a government bailout is a waste of our money unless GM has a plan on changing the way they do business.  It least that is my chop on things.

- Porkchop

it also means that all contracts are null and void.  as for the health care thing. the reason japanese makers don't have to pay is because, like all other g-8 countries other than America, the government pays the health care cost.  big government? why so scared? small government has not been successful.  big government takes care of the citizens, business only wants profits...get it?

Red Tag sale 4 the win ...... 

oh yeah, before they file bankruptcy it will be buy one get one free on all trucks.   

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_on_go_co/auto_bailout_what_s_next

suprise, suprise. congress doesn't want to do anything because i'm willing to be none of them have one dime invested in the auto industry. but when it came to the banking industry, well, now, we gotta do something fast.  i'm not saying for sure we need to do something and i'm not saying we need to let them fail all together. if they do fail, it's very clear it will hit the economy very, very hard. i'm disgusted at the fact that congress seems to just want to sit around and finger point and play the blame game. geez, what do we pay our represenatives for?

Quote from: jserio on November 19, 2008, 08:11:28 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_on_go_co/auto_bailout_what_s_next

suprise, suprise. congress doesn't want to do anything because i'm willing to be none of them have one dime invested in the auto industry. but when it came to the banking industry, well, now, we gotta do something fast.  i'm not saying for sure we need to do something and i'm not saying we need to let them fail all together. if they do fail, it's very clear it will hit the economy very, very hard. i'm disgusted at the fact that congress seems to just want to sit around and finger point and play the blame game. geez, what do we pay our represenatives for?

Dude they just want are going to wait for January, that's all at this point.

procrastination at it's best i guess. my job doesn't involve a two month vacation.     but then again, i'm not a politician. 

Quote from: frankieG on November 18, 2008, 11:25:55 AM
it also means that all contracts are null and void.  as for the health care thing. the reason japanese makers don't have to pay is because, like all other g-8 countries other than America, the government pays the health care cost.  big government? why so scared? small government has not been successful.  big government takes care of the citizens, business only wants profits...get it?

Big govt, big business. both waste money 

Quote from: jserio on November 18, 2008, 12:57:56 PM
oh yeah, before they file bankruptcy it will be buy one get one free on all trucks.   

I've read somwehere that a British car dealer is doing that already. Buy one car, get two.
Don't know the actual details of this promotional sale, though.

Fun fact of the day:  The 10 top officers for Toyota make less money combined than the CEO of GM. 

We can blame unions all we want, but the American car makers chose to give better pensions and health care instead of increasing employee pay.  They put off their labor costs, and now its biting them where we all knew it would.

and in a few months, it will bite the rest of the country/economy just as hard.

Quote from: Juan1 on November 20, 2008, 02:03:56 PM
Fun fact of the day:  The 10 top officers for Toyota make less money combined than the CEO of GM. 

We can blame unions all we want, but the American car makers chose to give better pensions and health care instead of increasing employee pay.  They put off their labor costs, and now its biting them where we all knew it would.

Interesting bit there about toyota vs gm officers.

the half off sale on trucks is silly too. it's a truck, which is defined as a cab + a box. but people 'need' 4 doors, 400 horsepower, 40" tires, and to be cooler than their neighbor. recognize a theme here from the housing market ?  yep, you got it $40,000 in payments too.

Alls I know is that i caught a part of the big 3's meeting they had, and, they got chewed the f%$k out.  One very upset representative said that he doesnt think they sohould get any money because they would continue to make the same mistakes theyve been making for the last 10 years.  Then later i saw footage of the ceo's of the big three leaving the local airport in private jets. Sounds like they are very worried about money.  I think ford has somethign like a fleet of 10 private jets for its top dicks.  The cost or a private jet flight is ridiculous. Let alone how ever many flights they make a year.  When the compay could be puttign that money into r&d for better quality cars.  I say drop the big guys salaries down to half of what they make a year.  Take away private jets, company retreats.  And give more to the r&d so they can have a perverbial propulsion device for thier native american water vessels that are heading up a tributary full of feces.
SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE IN HARD TIMES! Something alot of the upper echelon of this country cannot envision.  "Cut everythign else but my salary and luxuries"
f%$k that, everyone pays the piper now bitches.  And his name is Murphy!

i am very worried about our economy and country

I think Google should buy one of these car companies. They have proven the ability to make money in an industry that is nearly impossible to make money in anymore (the interwebs) No reason to believe they couldn't make one of these automakers profitable.