i got some disturbing news today at work. "as a result of the current global economic crisis, we are decreasing our production and evaluating staffing needs. also, all plants and offices will close for an additional 2 days at the end of the year. these will be paid to employees as vacation days." of course they said if we wanted we could opt to NOT take vacation days but we still have to sit at home for those 2 days.  okay, i'm sure some of you are like, dude, what's bad about 2 vacation days? nothing really, except that i was trying to save some of them for emergencies. this cuts my emergency days down a bit, no biggie really. what bothers me is the statement, "evaluating staffing requirements." last year we got a memo that said that. i suppose that's a nice way of saying, "shorty some of you poor bastards will have no job".  i barely squeeked by last lay-off and didn't get nabbed. had i been at my job a couple weeks less, i would have been. i have no idea what the criteria will be this time around. the economy is in much worse shape than it was this time last year. and of course they really won't say much else until they know for sure. (can't hurt production by pissing people off ya know)  from a business standpoint, i can understand that a company must do what it can to survive the bad times. i also understand that if they lay-off it doesn't mean it's permanent, there's a chance i'd get called back. and i'd get un-employment. that's where my problem lies. i don't know what i'd make on unemployment but i'd be willing to bet it won't be exactly what i make now. i'm looking at things in my budget i can trim. allready going to cancel my gym membership. the internet is next if it comes down to it. then the only thing left really will be cable.  my wife doesn't work, she's a stay at home mom. she hasn't needed to work because i make enough money. this really blows. if i loose my job, there's a great chance i'd loose my house and my car as well. not to mention health insurance for my wife and 3 little girls. someone point me in the direction of the sorry bastard who f%$ked the economy so badly? i wanna junk punch them. how the f%$k is a father suppose to look his kids in the eyes and tell them he lost his job? (i know, it hasn't happened yet but still...... my mind is racing...)       just stop and think, next time you hear of someone falling on hard times, it may not be "just because they spend more than they make".  it could very well be that they just don't have a job anymore. think of how many other stories like mine you'll hear in a few months when/if GM and the other Big Three go under and have to lay off millions of workers.  then look around at your family, and remember what really matters.   

Quote from: jserio on November 20, 2008, 01:59:14 PM
 just stop and think, next time you hear of someone falling on hard times, it may not be "just because they spend more than they make".  it could very well be that they just don't have a job anymore. think of how many other stories like mine you'll hear in a few months when/if GM and the other Big Three go under and have to lay off millions of workers.  then look around at your family, and remember what really matters.   

Well said and good luck jserio

Part of the problem with being a male is that life centers around work. Females lives' center around family, and this makes losing a job much tougher on a male. Not saying there aren't women that support their families, there are plenty.

You may lose a job, I've lost several to machine shops closing. It's not the end, but the beginning. New things to learn, new people to meet, new places to explore. It's a change that persists through life, and I feel sorry for people that continue in the same job until retirement. They have missed so many opportunities to expand their scope of knowledge and friendships.

Losing a job (layoffs/closures) is something you have no control over. Do your job, do it well, and accept the changes as they come. Take it easy on mama, she's worrying worse than you. THe girls will be fine. They just want daddy to be daddy.

As far as dropping the gym membership, ok, fine. Find another form of exercise. Hot muscles mean cool tempers. Been there, done it. Endorphines (post work-out) are a good good thing.

Keep the internet, downgrade if you think it will help, but keep plugged in. Job opportunities are out there, but being online is a big plus for finding businesses, appointments, entertainment, whatever. Sure, kill off cable, it's a brain sag anyway.

Good to you, and i'll be happy to crotch punch whoever that one person is that screwed our world economy right along with you.

Quote from: jserio on November 20, 2008, 01:59:14 PM
 just stop and think, next time you hear of someone falling on hard times, it may not be "just because they spend more than they make".  it could very well be that they just don't have a job anymore. think of how many other stories like mine you'll hear in a few months when/if GM and the other Big Three go under and have to lay off millions of workers.  then look around at your family, and remember what really matters.   

these are unprecedented times. Blame? there's plenty of points to blame. Consider yourself lucky to still have a job. Your wife will surely need to go back to work as well. Family is primary, and we all have to do what we must to keep our families moving.
I have my own business and its very (VERY) slow for us now. I've had to lay off one of my 2 staff recently and it was the hardest thing I have had to do...my wife has to go back to work too. I feel your pain. Good luck.

and i had to close mine. so yeah its a Buddha Loves You

jserio, I'll debate all you want on many political topics, but I feel for you big time right now.  My stepson was moved to about half-time employment (at least he has a job) but his wife doesn't work -- she cares for their two kids, 1 and 2 1/2.  They are very good at living on a budget.

This economic depression (yes, I believe it is a full-blown depression) scares the hell out of me. My job is secure, and I have no debt except for a mortgage which will be paid off in 6 years, but my kids are in danger.  This is scary.

You'd best learn to live well within your means.  This will mean no eating out, no extras, no cable, etc. until things get better.  It will mean accepting help from others (church, family, social agencies, etc) and being creative and buying things secondhand.  But you will survive!

Hang in there, man.

Quote from: trumpetguy on November 21, 2008, 06:57:34 PM
jserio, I'll debate all you want on many political topics, but I feel for you big time right now.  My stepson was moved to about half-time employment (at least he has a job) but his wife doesn't work -- she cares for their two kids, 1 and 2 1/2.  They are very good at living on a budget.

This economic depression (yes, I believe it is a full-blown depression) scares the hell out of me. My job is secure, and I have no debt except for a mortgage which will be paid off in 6 years, but my kids are in danger.  This is scary.

You'd best learn to live well within your means.  This will mean no eating out, no extras, no cable, etc. until things get better.  It will mean accepting help from others (church, family, social agencies, etc) and being creative and buying things secondhand.  But you will survive!

Hang in there, man.

well said, and sage advice sir

Were having the same problem at work, Thomson fly have pulled out of the airport (our main airline) they have cut 18 fire men jobs, 90% of the ground handlings staff. Our department will be next (air traffic) thankfully theres a shortage of air traffic controllers currently so it shouldnt be the end of the world trying to find a new job but it will take time.

My dads an IT director, worked for IBM for 25 years, then worked for Sun, Photocorp, Capita, made redundant at the end of year pretty much with them. Now the family is really in the shaZam!, hes made over 300 job applications and only got about 5 interviews, mostly because people keep pulling the jobs due to this economic crisis. Hes tried applying for jobs half of his normal pay packet and they tell him hes over qualified. Its crazy stuff. Mum works as a practice nurse (so not alot of money in that either). Im currently loaning a portion of my wage and have my savings as back up to tide them over until he can get another job.

In times like this you have to do everything, and do it now. You can see the fork in the road coming up, does your job continue or do you get made redundant. While its not the end of your job yet you need to sort out the wife getting back into work, and get a plan sorted for if you do lose your job. I know its a huge upheaval but too many people just coast along thinking they will sort it out if it does happen. You don't want your wife to go back to work if she doesnt have to but atleast if she gets a job now and earns some extra cash she can always quit if they secure your job.

The bad part about a serious economic downturn is the downward momentum of many folks doesn't stop when the crisis is deemed officially over. The '81 recession affected me for the better part of a decade. I could probably weather the storm but the fates of my two sons and their families are a huge worry to me. I've been advising them for some time now not to spend money for anything except when absolutely necessary. Hang on to your hat...we're in for a rough ride.

Having not lived through any sort of depression I'm a little nervous what to expect...  a lot of questions in my head after reading your posts... how will Canada be effected? I'm a f/t student with a wife and 2 kids (7 & 3) living on my wife's income and student loans... how hard will it be to pay those off when I'm done? 

Luckily I've got my self in a debt free (except student loans) environment... I'm renting my place in part of a government assisted program, I own my car, my bike, my guitars, etc.  No narley bills either but all this depression talk is unnerving...

Anyways, thanks for sharing your wealth of experience here... I hope your experience can help us 'kids' thru it.   

no new news from the "management" yet as to the status of our jobs. i'm sure they'll give us a week or two's notice. as of now it's just sit and wait. so with that in mind, i'm still taking my trip to see my old man in kansas. would it be more wise to save that money "in case"? maybe, but family is first. i haven't seen my old man in 8 years. i've always felt a life lived in fear isn't a life lived.  whatever happens eh? take the good with the bad, roll with the punches baby. can't keep a good man down.     

our country and all of use are in for some hard time...however as in the past i am sure we can get through it.  we are ameriCAN and yes we can !!!

In 1975 my family had just come back from 4 years in Guatemala C.A.

Ford was in office, with Carter to take over soon. The economy was getting ready to tank.

Unemployment eventually approached 20 % and I remember people getting house loans at 21% interest.

Yeah, those were interesting times. We lived on Rice, Beans and cornbread for several years.

We will be OK. Just have to learn to live on less.

My Grandfather always told me that it wasn't how much money you had coming in, It was how little you had going out that counted.

Take care of your pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.

Right now, I can come up with several things I can cut out of my life that I really don't need to survive.

Cable TV          60.00
cable internet  60.00
cell phone        45.00
total               165.00

If I dig a bit more I can come up with more stuff. 

Anyway, We just have to live smarter now till it blows over.

BeSafe
PJ

In a way ... government intervention is really going to help the young, the rich and financially secure at the expense of the weak, older and marginal workers. If they let things run their course and not intervene till all the bad news is done with ... it will be over in 3 months and we will see the down drop to 5-6K, tons and tons of $$ lost (mostly by the rich and those who can lose it) and the whole economy can recover with all the worthless industries dead. The random stimulus crap only keeps the bad ideas in the market and sick companies still living and eating up before eventually failing.

If it were a serious depression it will last 3 months, and the government can start on doing infrastructure projects at the end to trigger renewal. 3 months of 20-30% unemployment will actually hurt everyone, not just the people with a lot of liability. This will hurt the rich more then the poor. You have 10 bucks and you lose it but people who have 10 million will lose it all.

If they keep meddling with it, we will see a 5 year long recession and the marginal people will be left in the dust. This will have 8-10% unemployment with the unemployed people being the ones who cannot move at the drop of a hat and the ones who are supporting a lot of people with 1 paycheck.

700 billion is a joke, I am pretty sure the rich people who own these banks can hold a lot more in their safe at home.
Cool.
Buddha.

Kinda what happened in the '30s.

Some economist contend that gov't intervention then made the great depression last longer than it should have.

Seems like history repeats itself once again.

BeSafe
PJ

Indeed

Quote from: PuddleJumper on November 27, 2008, 09:56:55 AM
Kinda what happened in the '30s.

Some economist contend that gov't intervention then made the great depression last longer than it should have.

Seems like history repeats itself once again.

BeSafe
PJ

really and how was that? 

Quote from: PuddleJumper on November 27, 2008, 09:56:55 AM
Kinda what happened in the '30s.
Some economist contend that gov't intervention then made the great depression last longer than it should have.

Were these economist wearing tin foil hats by chance?

No tin foil hats.

I am willing to discuss but not at all interested in trading barbs. I can treat people with respect while questioning their point of view. Something that seems to be lacking now days.


But anyway, here's some interesting conclusions from a couple of UCLA economics profs.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20081027150030.aspx

BeSafe

I see your source is an offshoot of the conservative media basher Media Research Center. Now it all makes sense. Hoover tried the "hands off" approach and that failed miserably. The Great Depression has been studied for generations and most conclude that overall, FDR's policies and actions made a significant impact on alleviating or significantly reducing the suffering of millions of American citizens. Unfortunately the tales of my grandparents' generation are slowly fading, being replaced by 27 minute television documentaries flashing the same tired archived photos over and over. That's not quite the same as looking into the face of someone who experienced it.