I wish I understood the finer bits of economics. I know there are some really smart heads working on this, and some even smarter heads figuring out how to steal their share.

The problem is, evil > good. :-(

Would you leave $100,000 on the table at your house along with a place for me to eat at ? Big gov't is, and they're not even asking for you to turn the stove off after you have a plate. :|

Okaaaayyyy,

Your assuming that since I'm conservative, that I eat and drink the coolaide of Republicanism.

Don't assume.

Hoover did not practice hands off. Look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff act.
    This give you an instance of a Republican instance of Gov't interference.

    See, I'm fair. If the Republicans screw up I call it a screw up.
This act increased Tariffs on imports which raised prices. That's the wrong thing to do in a depression. People already can't buy goods so raising the prices doesn't help.

What difference does it make which outlet I'm referencing?

My point was to answer your question about whether the economist I was referring to has tin hats, and also to let Frankie know that I wasn't just pulling something out of thin air.

There are Real economist who question the policies of Both sides during the depression.
They contend that those policies hurt more than they helped.

I am referencing a study done by two UCLA Professors .( last time I checked, UCLA wasn't exactly a media bashing research center.)

I'll see if I can find a different new outlet that references the same story about that study.
Maybe CNN or MSN .

BeSafe
PJ

here ya go.

From UCLA themselves:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409

From a Libertarian point of view:

http://www.politicalcapital.info/fdrs-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/

From a UK news outlet:

http://uk.keegy.com/tag/production-quotas/


And from the New York times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/business/26view.html



By the way your assuming I don't know anyone who lived in the great depression.
My Granddad benefited from the works project.  I grew up on stories about hard times.

All the above reference the same study. they aren't exactly conservative outlets.

BeSafe.
PJ

 

QuoteThe Great Depression has been studied for generations and most conclude that overall, FDR's policies and actions made a significant impact on alleviating or significantly reducing the suffering of millions of American citizens.

I never implied that all accounts were a glowing approval. I'm quite aware that there are opposing viewpoints on this subject. I called bs when they put a number to their claim...7 years. Economist seem to be hard pressed to provide an accurate assessment of current economic conditions. This certainly doesn't give credence to their speculation of past events.

Neither does a " Tin hat comment"

I made a statement, You and frankie Questioned it, I gave a reference to a study conducted by a university, Then you questioned the validity of that because I found the reference to the study on a website you don't approve of.

Soo, I found other sites that reference the same study.

My original statement that it seems history is repeating itself still stands.
Notice the words "seems".. That means that from my point of view, it appears that  we could be poised to make some of the same mistakes of the past.

That doesn't make it a fact, just my opinion.

And just because my opinion is different than some, doesn't mean I get my information from people wearing tin hats.

Now if I said that Scotty recently beamed me down to this planet to study its culture.....

That would be a tin hat moment.

BeSafe
PJ

what's wrong with tin hats?         

zombies wear tin hats

And so do canadian liberals  ( a friendly jab)

Well I see it this way. The constant increase in unemployment is a vicious cycle.  When you get to where your consumer base has dropped off the face of the earth due mostly in part to them not having an income because they were layed off, guess what you start cuttin g back in your business as well.  then come the layoffs, and killign some one elses consumer base.  Perpetuating the downward spiral.  With no one makign money, no one can buy anything.  With no one buyign anything, places shut down.  Makign more people unable to buy anythign.  Its never ending.  Cut the luxuries.  Buy smarter. 

silly comments aside i agree with you and this situation has me concerned as a citizen.  i know i am safe with my pension coming from the federal government and more specifically veterans affairs.  but there are thousands who may see their pension funds shrink greatly

Puddle jumper is not totally right ...
The govt worsened the great depression.
They first did nothing.
Then they attempted to balance the budget and increase interest rates.
Then they attempted to halt the spiral and stimulate the economy (after hoover got tossed on his butt).

Now this time is different ... and this is why it will be worse than the depression ... A rough thanksgiving example is - you can cook the turkey ... or you can leave it frozen ... like the govt did in the 30's, or you can torch it to a flaming charred up crisp like they are now ...

Now we are stimulating the economy regardless of what will survive and what is viable.
The dead industries will soak up a lot of the funds.
The economy will continue to spiral downward with more and more and more defaults, people throwing in the towel, and people just bailing on stuff cos they see their neighbors ... or people on TV doing so. This is called moral hazard. Rewarding crime is only going to turn the whole world into criminals. If they had let the foreclosures just happen and let them crash and burn, only the small percentage of actual foreclosures will happen ... now everone is tempted to walk away from their depreciating debt trap. Cars, student loans, businesses etc etc etc ... all of it.

Then it will just get worse and worse and worse ... nothing can stop it, people have been rewarded for being imprudent ... the pnes that got out early are feeling smug, the ones that are getting out now are feeling smugger, and the ones that are getting out in the future will feel even smugger. The only way to have stopped this ... bail out the honest and hardworking and those who didn't default on their commitments. The crooks belong in prison. Not be rewarded.

Then, the unfeasible industries etc etc need to die. Injecting funds into the economy at random is just going to waste ... like Hummers being made by GM, and people with credit buy it and attempt to fill gas at $10 a gal to commute 100 miles 1 way to their McDonalds job. Random shaZam! like that.

Slowly only feasible businesses survive. That point after the death and settling of the dust, the governemt can stimulate the economy ... and ensure new growth.

I dunno how they cannot see that whatever is on the verge of death ... needs to die. What they will do is ... stimulate now, and have the dying industries eat up the $, then they die anyway, and that will create a crisis among the ones that can survive as well. That makes some extra dead companies ... at which time the govt will hate stimulus ... cos they did so much and it didn't work. Yea peckerheads that's the problem ...
Cool.
Buddha.

wow i really did not get that turkey analogy

Underdone vs over done frankie ...

You also dont want to be caught dead with unused ammunition ...

So as a first step our government is throwing the gun at the problem ...

Or ... its emptying the bullets into the abyss ... right out of their pockets.

Cool.
Buddha.

got it...the ammo did the trick..i'm not that bright u know

Yeah,

This sucks, I work at Universal in Security and have not been scheduled to work for three weeks now. What they did was hire 85 officers to work Halloween Horror Nights and give them five days a week and was hired as Part-time not seasonal. My perception of Part-time is 1-2 days a week not 1 day a month. I'm not hurting as bad (I'm on disability with my heart but not enough to survive on) as other officers that were hired on who got used to 46 hours a week and now nothing! Many were told they would be full-time after 90 days but after the letter saying there would be 1.5 million budget decrease I doubt that will happen. I overheard one of the managers saying they do that every year expecting 1/3 of the force to just quit because they can't survive. I'm sure that many of my fellow officers would not have hired on if we had been told you will work for four weeks like crazy then you will be lucky to get a couple of days a month!

To make matters worse my health has tanked which I'm kinda glad I wasn't scheduled. But, the night I was taken to the hospital by ambulance my car was broken into and my stereo system was stolen and a four foot hole in my convertible top. I fear it is only going to get worse i.e. burglaries and thefts. I even got screwed over by my insurance company in order to keep my monthly statement the same my deductibles were changed drastically from $500 to $1500! So this will come out of my pocket. This is what I get for an automatic withdrawl I guess I didn't see a big difference so I didn't notice the big deductible change because it was not mailed and I didn't think to go on-line and look at the policy. Thought that is something they would tell me but I thought wrong and now even though I shouldn't be riding my bike I have too.

It wouldn't be so bad if I were working 1-2 days a week but now I just don't know . Anybody in the central Florida area know how to replace a convertible top or have one for a 1999 pontiac sunfire GT that they could sell reasonably?

Thanks for listening!

Mary S.

if i were a bit closer, i could help thre are a few junk yards, which have these tops in em

Do you think I'd find a descent top at a salvage yard? wonder how much it'd cost. man I didn't even think of that.

thanks for the thought at least!

Mary

great example Budha!

Yeah, I agree that at first they did nothing. I was just picking up the story where they did too much. LOL

What is interesting about that time is that It's a great example of both the Republicans and the Democrats getting it wrong.

Hoover first did nothing, then started raising the tariffs.
FDR raised taxes and increased public spending.

Come to think of it, there may not be a right thing to do. Maybe this is a common cold type problem for the economy.

ie, no cure, you just have to let it run it's course.

BeSafe
PJ

Justin hows it going man, have you heard anything new?

another notice earlier this week. they have decided not to pursue a large purchase. (expansion plans put on hold basically.)  Not that big of a set back for us really. we are the 6th largest forklift maker in the world. no word from management about lay-offs. of course there are rumors flying around the shop. probably started by employees for employees. i'm sure you know the kind i'm talking about. for example, my has a friend who's boyfriend works for my company. (don't know the plant etc, just that he works for crown as well.) my wife's friend told her the other day that her boyfriend told her that they are going to lay off everyone hired after 1999. sounds a bit far fetched to me. espcially considering they said last year somewhere around 40 percent of the current employees have been with the company 2 years or less. (I just got my 2 years in this july.) and i'm sure the percentage is much higher if you go as far as number of employees with the company 10 years or less. sure we got some 20+ folks too. i dunno. not much i can do really. just punch in on time, do my job and go home. ain't much i can do other than that. every manufacturing type business i've worked in, things get slow in the winter and then pick up in the spring. only this winter we are dealing with a shaZam! economy also. hopefully the vacation days they're making us take and the waiting on the expansion project will float us through and they won't have to let any of us go. playing the waiting game for now. sucks. will keep yiou guys updated though.


BP, thanks for the inquiry!