OK so the thing is prolly Dead on the senate floor ... so ... should it live or die ...

I think it needs to die ... the companies should do a chapter 11 and return with some products we actually want to buy and I hope one of them is a freaking inexpensive hybrid, run it, fix it yourself, get back on the road motorcycle, as well as a similar car. I am sick and tired of Idiot companies design crap that's really really impractical, and ugly ... and throw it at the public, who fuelled by the desire to spend their recent wealth buy the crap and then slap spinners on the thing ... you're freaking busa isn't any less ugly or more useful with the spinners on peckerhead ...
BTW another recent stupid ass ugly freaking idea I see often ... weird shaped naked bike headlights ... have they learnt nothing from the valkyrie rune's spectacular failure when credit was indeed looser than Brittney Spears at a free cocaine event ...
If the headlights are not stuffed in a fairing ... listen up moron's who draw motorcycles ... the shape is round. A distant second is rectangle AKA square ... we dont need triangle ... skull shaped. tear drop shaped ... inverted tear drop shaped ... or the god awful ... potato shape on the gladius.

Anyway, back to the rant at hand ... let them die, and they can come back with a product that can make us buy. Or let them die, and they can make busses or trains.

However ... the 350 of the 700 billion we have thrown at the banks has been completely wasted ... I'd atleast pass the rest of the 350 billion to these 3 in a proper structured way and make them restructure and make them research and put in tax breaks for fuel efficiency etc etc ... because AIG, and citibank, and the rest of the banks are paying themselves with our money.
Its high time we got a decent useable motorcycle out of detriot. And I dont want no over blown over hyped harley/goldwing bastard child either. Fuel efficient, fix at home types.
Cool.
Buddha.

I'm ok with loaning the automakers a limited amount of operating capital in return for some oversite to assure they get on the right path. I would hope the workers/retired workers understand the serious nature of their employers problems and prompt the UAW to act accordingly. Filing any form of bankruptcy could be the kiss of death for an otherwise viable business.

I understand its a ton of jobs people would loose, but i cant help but think about other things we could do with 14 billion dollars rather than loan it to corporations. How about scratching the surface with public healthcare, homeless food and shelters, rehab programs, environmental projects,...

Besides, the loan is less than half of what the auto industry thinks it needs to be saved.

die.  I hope it dies.  I hope GM, Ford, and Chrysler all die.  Maybe their reincarnations will be properly run.

Nay, and while we're at it let's make all those banks pay back their cut of that bail out.......with interest.  We are not a communosocialist state and have no business mixing the federal government into private business.

Die.  Even if the bailout passes, it will not keep them afloat long enough for a return to profitability.

They couldn't give them enough money for the companies to return to profitability...because they're not changing.  It's sad when the politicians even say as much.  The big 3 are asking for money to keep doing exactly what they're doing.

Quote from: The Buddha on December 11, 2008, 02:49:53 PM

1) Anyway, back to the rant at hand ... let them die, and they can come back with a product that can make us buy. Or let them die, and they can make busses or trains.

2) Its high time we got a decent useable motorcycle out of detriot. And I dont want no over blown over hyped harley/goldwing bastard child either. Fuel efficient, fix at home types.
Cool.
Buddha.

1) ya man ya

2) there i no way i'd ride a two wheeled death machine manufactured to GM's quality/assembly guidelines. none. zilch. nada.



i see no need in a structured bailout of any kind for failing companies. the products are shaZam!, the quality similar, reliability also. sure, market it with OMG PONIES ! pearl paint and chrome wheels- i'm still not buying.


(my opinion doesn't matter to detroit, or toyota/honda/kia anyway, because i'll never buy a 'new' car. )

Quote from: makenzie71 on December 11, 2008, 05:08:52 PM
die.  I hope it dies.  I hope GM, Ford, and Chrysler all die.  Maybe their reincarnations will be properly run.

Be careful what you ask for...you may get it. These foreign companies that are kicking our industries @sses receive or have received substantial support from their governments. Any reincarnation will likely be under Asian or Arab ownership. Like it or not, our 'superpower' status cannot be sustained without significant US owned manufacturing capacity. Contrary to popular belief, shuffling paper and flipping burgers does not count as manufacturing.

Not concerned...foreign manufacturers aren't doing too much better than we are in the States.  Why do you think our foreign-owned manufacturing plants are shutting down?  We're not buying as many new cars as it takes for them to be able to afford to pay their workers $50+ and hour.

I'd be willing to bet that when the reincarnations come up they will be US-bound and we'll see either higher quality stuff for the price we pay or a price the match our current quality.

Die and live, BUT only if UAW goes bye bye. i hold them responsible for this, as well as building crap that not many want. reliability as of recent times hasnt been an issue, any mroe than anybody ewlse, BUT bennies and all the UAW workers are paid 3 times as much as tehir counterparts at honda toyota and nissan

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on December 12, 2008, 02:20:19 AM
only if UAW goes bye bye.

+1 I blame them for all this crap. Why should the guy that puts on hub caps make as much as the guy that puts in the motor.
It is all union crap.
I love my Chevy but I have had to fix alot of things to make it a great truck.
I think if the union goes away the quality would go up cause folks would have to work and take responsibility for there work.
imho 

When toyota and honda and whoever else opened up manufacturing plants here, why didn't we get them to join the same UAW that the detroit 3 have to deal with.
Further, cars are so freaking dead. Yea payload = 160 lbs, tare weight = 5000 lbs. Screw that, flawed in a 1000 ways.
Heck a motorcycle is still 160 lb payload and 500 lb tare wt. But better than 5000 lbs. I really think its time for a smart, green, well made, economical, fix it yourself motorcycle.
A 1963 VW of bikes. Couple that with decent weather gear, and I dont see why a 100+ mpg bike that costs 4K is not realistic.
Yea a dead detroit will be needed to get this done. Even so honda may beat them at it too ... however, forget any honda being "fix it yourself".
Cool.
Buddha.

Let them die through bankruptcy reorganization.  All the American automakers had or still have stakes in foreign auto companies.  They could just use a working business model from resources they already had.

- Porkchop

That will result in worse crap, designed even more thoughtlessly and overpriced cos the competetion is gone and it will be even more tackily made, and they will react with the seasoned attitude of ... "if you dont like it ... dont buy it ... walking sounds good right ? " .

Congress for years gave them assured profits for making Trucks, which promptly let them to slap everythign from minivan bodies on F250's to fitting car bodies on F150's and referring to them as trucks. I think congress has to push them to where they need to go. They need sensible vehicles that will last for several decades and use less gas. I dont see how a motorcycle types will not fit that bill if its designed right. Of course a small car can also do the job with some more dead weight to cart around.

R&D is vital. The cars in the pipeline can be shelved for later. Oil shock brought us some decent motorcycles. GS serises suzuki, KZ kawi's, etc etc. cant see why we cant go back that way and add in fuel efficient flex fuel hybrid you can fix yourself ... heck all 3 can make the same thing. Ford, GM, Chrysler motorcycles, all of which use the same everything.

Cool.
Buddha.

the only reason the bailout of the big 3 will die on senate floor is because they(our elected officials) have no stake in them. none. they had/have stake in the banking industry. that's the only reason we contine to just let them blow that 700 billion dollars. they've spent 350 billion allready...and what do we have to show for it? nothing. absoluetyly nothing. so, we're a "fair" country right? what the hell, let's bail out the big 3 too...why not right? we can print up more paper. f%$k it all.....   

so much for capitalism

hmm..i just read that the bill would have passed except that legislaturs asked UAW to take a lower benefits/wage package and they said no. the proposed package would have been more in line with other manufacturers such as honda, toyota and nissan. 

That's why they're going to die, jserio.  More money without justification.

Srinath, actually the last thing the auto makers need are cars that'll last decades.  One of the biggest problems we have is that we don't buy enough new shaZam!.  If we don't buy new cars, someone doesn't make them.

but they need to last a resonable amount of time. i can't afford a new car every year.