That's the issue I have.  Ideally, a person would buy a new car every 5 years.  The problem with that is quality and cost.  From the get-go I've been bitching because the guys up top are letting the guys on the bottom call the shots.  Those little guys want more money for the same work or they won't work.  The guy up top doesn't want to hear them whine so he gives them more money.  Is the big man going to take a hit in his pocket book, though?  Hell no.  He'll just skimp on materials and quality control and charge 10% more for the product.

It's shaZam! like this that's made it so that you can't own a Pontiac Bonneville made in the last 10 years that doesn't have a faulty intermittent steering case...or a Focus that doesn't have the sealer in the gas tank peeling off because it dissolves in, of all things, gasoline...and so on.

I wouldn't have a problem with that stuff it it weren't for the fact that buying a new Bonneville means $30,000.  You an buy a fully loaded Maxima for around the same as a Bonneville and have a car that will last at least 5 years before shaZam! starts falling off it.  I don't mind buying crappy cars so long as I get what I pay for.

The American consumer buys large and/or inefficient vehicles by the millions. Whose fault is it? The manufacturers obviously! They hired armed thugs to force people into buying these vehicles when all they wanted was a stripper econo-box. Yep, we're all victims...plain and simple. Now's our chance to exact revenge on those scoundrels!

Umm the auto makers are going broke because people ARE NOT buying their cars.  Have you been a part of this conversation?

Quote from: makenzie71 on December 12, 2008, 07:56:35 PM
Umm the auto makers are going broke because people ARE NOT buying their cars.  Have you been a part of this conversation?

My sarcasm was directed toward those who claim that the US automakers woes are due to offering vehicles "we" don't want. Lots of folks want them, they're just not in a good financial position to buy them. After being slammed to the mat by the oil speculators, people expected the automakers to throw a switch and miraculously start producing vehicles we "want". Q: exactly what is it we want? A: we want it all, we want it to last forever, we want it cheap, and we want it NOW. My guess is that we will soon find out how well the Chinese can do at satisfying those "wants".

We have to bail out the big 3, or well just GM. I mean if they fail what will all the thugs and drug dealers drive ?
They gots to have da caddi.

Kinda interesting about the thugs and caddies analogy. I heard somewhere that although the Cadillacs were on par in quality with other luxury vehicles that GM could not get them financed for their notoriaty. I guess the thought was these vehicles will either get stolen, choped, or be a complete loss in many instances. So, it wasn't the quality of the vehicle it was who is wanting the vehicle.

I dunno sounds plausible. But, I guess Civics and such would be the same way with the getting stolen bit.

Oh well I think if they do get any money the union has gotta go. They make $28 bucks an hour to put on nuts and bolt. I got $10 an hour to be an EMT. Which requires more skill?

Mary

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on December 14, 2008, 04:20:52 AMOh well I think if they do get any money the union has gotta go. They make $28 bucks an hour to put on nuts and bolt. I got $10 an hour to be an EMT. Which requires more skill?  Mary

Fixing them requires more skill, I wish to GAWD I had 100% health insurance and a FAT pension to retire on AND made $28 an hour. I may lose my job, but the big three need some humble pie here, bankruptcy, then reorganize WITHOUT the bloated UAW pigs puling the strings..  This vid i found interesting also.....http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on December 14, 2008, 04:20:52 AMThey make $28 bucks an hour to put on nuts and bolt.

And that's the low end of the scale....

$28 or $100 an hour its the american way... Just like "non-proffit" agency leaders that make over 500K a year. 

I think the bailout is BS. If our minimum wage in PA is $7.15 an hour and there are union Jobs paying 10X that.... How is that fair? It hurts small business and it hurts the economy.

The average UAW worker, when you take their entire employment package in mind, makes well over $70/hour.  For installing an engine, laying paint, or turning bolts.  This isn't "Service".  It's "put part A on part B".  It requires very little skill.  This is why GM, Ford, and Chrysler is going to fail.

I just hope the union's claws aren't sunk far enough into the government that they can't be extracted to free the car companies to be more economically viable. The unemployment would be just as catastophic I imagine.

If the big three crashed unemployment WOULD be tremendous...we're looking at whole cities in some areas...but it wouldn't last.  Also, I think we'd have to see something of the likes of it to be motivated enough to do something about it.

Think about how many people Buddha Loves You about the government and it's practices.  Then think about how many of those people are doing ANYTHING about it?  Maybe the big three crashing would be big enough to move us.

maybe the big 3 crashing is the only way to effectively crush the union. and at the same time send a message to other unions, we will not be bullied. don't want to be a team player? want to be all selfish and only worry about your paycheck? fine, you won't have a job...we'll go bankrupt and then re-organize and hire non-union workers. 

Quote from: jserio on December 14, 2008, 05:42:41 PM
maybe the big 3 crashing is the only way to effectively crush the union. and at the same time send a message to other unions, we will not be bullied. don't want to be a team player? want to be all selfish and only worry about your paycheck? fine, you won't have a job...we'll go bankrupt and then re-organize and hire non-union workers. 

Unions are what Sent Levis Jeans overseas.A real Shame too.Put most of this county out of work several years Ago.The quality went in the Hole.Used to I could get a little over a year from a Pair of Jeans.Last pair I bought I think I got 4 Months.

Gee, what a surprise, Bush gave the big three their $ 

Yea there is the "not on my watch" mentality ... anything we can do to postpone the problem into the next guy's term. The next guy will do anything he can to get himself a second term, then at the end of that second term he will do anything he can to secure his legacy and put the problem into the lap of the next guy. McCain would have been better, he'd most likely have dropped dead after the first term ... however that aint no definite thing, look at duck Cheney ... 12 heart attacks, 11 strokes, 6 quadruple bypasses and he's still at the top of it all, directing people and making sure its one rule for the have nots and his opponents and one rule for him and his buddies. That takes committment. better yet, he's not even going to have to worry about his legacy. He was only president in truth, not president in name and title.
Cool.
Buddha.

wost president ever!!!!!!

Go back to sleep Frank.

Quote from: Revere2 on December 19, 2008, 07:29:23 PM
Go back to sleep Frank.

Lmao +1