On the ignition rotor, which pickup goes to which cylinder?
Also, does it fire every time the rotor passes each pickup?

The pickup with the black/white wire is the Right cylinder.
Green/white is left.
It sends a pulse each time the rotor passes the pickup.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

I installed a new top end and cylinders, adjusted the floats, and upped the main jet. Started it up and ran perfectly. Even idled for the first time. But I notice an oil leak at the base gasket. Lifted the cylinder about 1/2" to put some permatex. Did not remove the cylinder or head. While lifting the cylinder, the pistons moved rotating the crank. So my timing moved. Set the cams to where I thought I had set it before and now it won't run. Then I followed the directions in the service manual for setting the cams and nothing. Moved several teeth both ways and still nothing. Spark is good and fuel is there. I took pictures before I removed the stock setup but didn't take any before fixing the oil leak. Man is this frustrating.
:x

Gotta love it!  

Are you using a stock or V&H ignition rotor?

Make sure that you are using the correct mark?
The rotor nub should face forward when you setting the timing.

good luck!

I am using the V&H but I do have a stock rotor I compaired it to. Both have the TDC marks. When marks line up, it puts the left side exhaust cam pointing down pushing the valve open so I have to rotate the engine to close the valve to tighten the cams blocks. But I move everything together. When took it apart, I had the rotor set between the two pickups and pointing about 10:00. So the #1 mark on the ex cam was around the 2:00 position. I marked everything so I would know its position. It worked the first time...must have been beginners luck!

First step is to line up the TDC mark on the rotor with the forward facing pickup. That will put the right side piston at TDC.
The exhaust cam will stick up on the left side. Just leave the cam bearing caps off for now on the exhaust. Just finger tighten the intake side after you line up the marks. Slowly turn the crank backwards until the exhuast cam sits down in the head. Finger tighten the bearing caps. Then release the chain tensioner. Rotate the crank forward until the TDC mark lines up with the pickup. Check the alignment of the cam timing marks making sure the rotor is lined up at TDC.
If the marks are off, then move the crank backwards to the point where no valves are being opened. This should be the same point where the exhaust cam sat in the head. Remove tension on the cam chain and re-adjust the cams as needed. Put tension on the cam chain and rotate forward to TDC.
Putting tension on the cam chain is critical. The cams timing is moved when you apply tension.
You should not rotate the crank completely until the timing is lined up correctly. It could bend a valve  :x

Thanks for a better way to set the timing. Bend a valve?.....How about 2! Apparently with high lift cams and a decked head there was not enough clearance and bent both exhaust valves very slighly. The intake valves show signs of hitting the pistons as well. The pistons do have valve reliefs. When I had it running the first time, I never rev'd it about 6k. Good thing it happen now instead of the track. Putting the original head back on with the megacycle cams. There is not any porting but does have necked valves. Need to switch springs and changing valve seals as well. Have to learn somehow.

too bad one couldnt make a drift punch to hammer valves back flat while still in the head,   too bad a valve cant be rebent and straightend that easly

They really aren't difficult to remove. Only need a large c-clamp and a custom cut piece of pipe to remove the retaining clips. I have been getting really good at taking apart the engine. They aren't bent very bad, just enough to lose compression. May try putting them on the lathe and see if they could be straighten, got nothing to lose.

see, i have acouple GS450 heads, i belive they are the same sized valves as the 500, the CC is not as tight, looks like same casting numers on cams, but not sure.  Hell, i wouldnt mind using the 450 head as a mandral for straightening valves, if i was sure it would work.

The valves can be straightened.
You need to put them in the lathe chuck and use a dial indicator to see where to adjust them. Then use a soft mallet to wack the head to tweak it straight.
Once they're as close to straight as you can get them, have a shop grind the seat area. Then you should be able to lap them in with lapping paste.
You might be able to do it by just lapping them.

What grind cams are you using? The ones I use require some mods to the head to clear the lobes, and different spring/bucket setup.
I'm going to do something similar to what you did. I have 1mm over stock pistons. I'll mill the head and see what I can get out of the stock components.
I have 34mm carbs off an 03GS from Canada I'm gonna use.

Quote from: Blueknytsee, i have acouple GS450 heads, i belive they are the same sized valves as the 500, the CC is not as tight, looks like same casting numers on cams, but not sure.  Hell, i wouldnt mind using the 450 head as a mandral for straightening valves, if i was sure it would work.

If they are in decent shape I'd love to get one! Price? or trade for 500 stuff?

Quote from: Bob Broussard....What grind cams are you using? The ones I use require some mods to the head to clear the lobes, and different spring/bucket setup.
I'm going to do something similar to what you did. I have 1mm over stock pistons. I'll mill the head and see what I can get out of the stock components.
I have 34mm carbs off an 03GS from Canada I'm gonna use.

I have the largest cams Megacycle makes (384-20) with .417" lift for both intake & exhaust. Using stock buckets but with stronger springs. Looking at a way to replace the stock shims & buckets with lighter ones.

One thing I have been thinking about...The exhaust valves or pistons do not show any signs of impact. The intake valves have signs of hitting the pistons, similar to what they look like after valve float. My theory is...if I did not let the engine cool enough before removing the exhaust header, the cooler air hitting the hotter ex valve may have caused them to warp. They were both bent towards the port.

Either way, I am going to use the stock head with the stuff from the milled head. I do not want take a chance on bending anymore valves, running out of spares. Will lose some compression but I do not feel I have enough valve-piston clearance to have a reliable engine, already using a copper Cometic head gasket.

Is there a good way to ckeck valve-piston clearance?

I'm running 384X4 cams (.438 lift). It required removing some material from the head where the buckets sit. The lobes will hit the front/back edge of the bucket area. I converted to shim under bucket.
Check with Kibblewhite Precision Machining (650-359-4704). Let me know if you have any trouble dealing with them. They are great folks, but have changed their policy on dealing with individuals (been burned too many times :x ) I'm grandfathered in so I can help you out.
They will put together a kit with springs , buckets, Titanium retainers, collets.
I think it was around $150.00.
You will need to use Kawasaki 13mm shims to set valve clearence.
Much lighter than stock setup and won't spit a shim at higher rpm.

Now the way you describe the bent valves, sounds like they got bent by the intake valves contacting the exhaust valves. I had problems with that because someone degreed the cams wrong. The intakes where closing as the exhaust opened and they clipped each other.. Didn't bend the intake valves but did start to warp the edge. They get hot and soft and tweak easily. Also the bind on the valve stem kept breaking valve guides right where the clip fits in the groove. Which reminds me. With the cams I run I had to change to shorter valve guides or the retainers would mash the seals. You probably have the max lift to use the stock guides.


Put some clay on a piston and put the head on. Then after the cams are set up. just rotate the crank slowly by hand. Remove the head and cut some of the clay away so you can measure the thickness of the clay where the valves are. I would check with Megacycle on minimum clearence, I can't remember off hand.

I have JE pistons with massive domes to raise compression, so I haven't dealt with milling the head.  How much did the mill off the head?
I can cut some extra clearence in the pistons if needed, since I have the equipment. My investments are finally paying off

QuoteIf they are in decent shape I'd love to get one! Price? or trade for 500 stuff?

I have 4 one has bent mildly bent valves, either intake or exhaust not sure. the others are all intact save for shims/buckets (same used for 500)
Fact i have one complete still assembled 450 engine cept for stator cover.


Fact, if you can locate and ship to me stock 500 pistons and cyl, and carb needles/tubes, Ill give you 2 of the better 450 heads i have.

Quote from: Bob Broussard....How much did the mill off the head?
I can cut some extra clearence in the pistons if needed, since I have the equipment. My investments are finally paying off

It's Alive!
Finally got it back together correctly. Now it has a serious lope to it. Sounds deeper but not a much as my TLR. Idle was still a little off but better. Maybe just need to adjust the air screws. Have to go back it and check the valve clearance again, heard one ticking a little.

Not really sure how much was milled off of the head. I am guessing about 1.5mm. The rasied portion is gone and they milled almost the whole bottom of the head. There is about 1/4 of untouched ares just at the right & left side of the head at the fins. Don't have a good way to measure it.

I was told that TL shims & buckets fit. I know a guy rebuilding the top end on his TLR so I am trying to snag some parts to see if they fit.

I am planning on running the way it is for now. Hopefully it all stays together. But I am planning on building a larger engine this year as I aquire the parts.