i've been hearing alot lately about the newest package. and debate about it. it pisses me off that the republicans are voting against it, just because they're against the democrats. sour grapes is what it's sounding like. of course the republicans are saying stupid shaZam! like, "we're mortgaging our childrens, childrens future" and "this is a spending bill, not a stimulus bill". f%$king morons. they Buddha Loves You about the shaZam! in the bill but yet don't want to hear people point out that the only reason our national deficit is so high is a direct result of them having power for the last 8 years. hmm....partisianship my ass. they could give a shaZam! less about us average workers. they aren't the ones without jobs. they aren't the ones with no money, no health care etc. they've got a fat cat pension plan and health plan. creating jobs and putting americans back to work is priority number one. no matter what the cost of that may be. people working, pay taxes, spend money, invest money, etc...all of which would help motivate the economy. people not working, are saving whatever money they have, not spending, not investing, thus, the economy fails, and will continue to fail, no matter how much "cash" they pump into the banking industry or credit industry. republicans are saying, "oh, we need more time, we need to debate about this. let's talk some more." what the f%$k are you doing talking? seriously. get off your fat f%$king lazy ass and do your job. while you're talking, we lost over 600,000 more jobs in january. while you were busy talking, unemployment centers are having their servers crash because so many people are applying. while you are busy talking, people are losing their homes, their cars, wondering how they're going to feed their kids and stay warm at night. but sure, let's talk some more.  right now isn't the time to point fingers and cry like little babies because you lost an election. your average american, such as myself, did nothing to put themselves in the position they're in. we went to work everyday, busted our asses for companies. trying to follow the so called american dream. and now, we're out. and yet washington, the people we elect, they need more time...      "oh there's too much pork". yet, your f%$king administration put us here to begin with you duck sucking faggots!       f%$k! 

Repubuickans are assuming we will sell bonds and pay interest on it for life. However we can print $, pay off old debts and fund this.
The thing that gets me though is, it will create many mnay more opportunities to do worthless things wasting resources and $.
In 2001 there were blind stimulus that was injected into the system by the govt. It spawned countless houses, in far flung subdivisions with 1 lane roads running to them and no way for the people to live there and avoid being in commuter hell. That will happen again. Then of course we will hire many many illegal mexicans with the next batch of stimulus who will demolish those houses.
That in fact will help both housing and the employment atleast at the bottom of the pile and atleast temporarily.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Politician] "Hello everybody!, lets cut educational funding cause schools aren't helping the economy, and with those cuts we can give these poor bastards over here, (insert bailout recipient), millions.  Its not to much just a couple billion here and half here ... see its easy just do this like that."

[Reporter] "What about when those cuts aren't enough"

[Politician] "Well see those cuts are recurring cost so we just keep it that way ...  then in not so long  ... "FIRE UP THE PRESSES!"

Yeah i hear about it from a ragingly upset wife so i keep track, ahhh politics ..... you got to fund it somehow ...



edit: politics moment of weakness, damn beer, all i really have to say is sink or swim bitches! leaving thread in 3 .. 2 .. 1 ..

education is vital. that's my biggest roadblock at the moment. there are thousands of job listings in my area. but they all want that degree. which i don't have. so cutting education funding is just plain moronic. if our work force is more educated, they'll have better paying jobs, and pay more in taxes. education is vital also.

i agree. but most of this package is pork. non stimulus stuff. education is key . key because, msot out there, believe what a politician say without so much as a shred of proof or guarantee  . those i feel sorry for

Quote from: jserio on February 10, 2009, 03:32:09 PM
education is vital. that's my biggest roadblock at the moment. there are thousands of job listings in my area. but they all want that degree. which i don't have. so cutting education funding is just plain moronic. if our work force is more educated, they'll have better paying jobs, and pay more in taxes. education is vital also.

Sorry to hear that, man.  I have to ask, though, wasn't Ohio a manufacturing mecca at some point?  I'm not from there so I don't know, but I thought I heard it was a good place to work back in the day.  Maybe not manufacturing, per se, but weren't there a lot of "blue collar" jobs there?  If so, what happened?  Why aren't they there anymore? 

I agree that education is a good thing, but it seems that the whole "you have to have a degree" phenomenon is a recent development. It seems to me that the loss of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. is really hurting us right now.

I live in a small city (Lincoln, NE) where there's maybe 2 factories but they employ a ton of the local population.  One of the factories is a drug company and the vast majority of their workers are through a temp service.  It's not hard work and you don't need a degree to work an assembly line.  The pay isn't great but it'll get the bills paid.

All that said, I'm no historian but it seems that the loss of those types of jobs that pay decent wages without experience or college education has kinda crippled the backbone of our economy.  Nowadays, people who don't have an education work at retail places, which is okay, but the ceiling seems a lot lower than, say, a car assembly job.

the problem with the area i live in is that all of the major employeers are manufacturing based it seems. and alot of them are in the automobile industry.

Ohio is steel country, so yea lots of manufacturing. Charlotte NC is same but with banking. Needless to say its also dead right now.
The freaking consolidation theory is just begining to bite. Its never useful to have all of 1 inductry in 1 city. Silicon valley - tech, all tech, heavy tech, nothing but tech. NYC finance, etc etc etc. So if you lose your job, well guess what 1000's and 1000's of your colleagues are also out at the same time and the scrapping for crumbs starts. Then they all start to get out and freaking hell, you cant even rent a U haul, there is a fight to get out there too.
Stupid I tell ya.
Cool.
Buddha.

and everything is so connected. the financial market is tied directly to everything else. if banks aren't loaning money, it hurts everyone really. people can't get loans to buy products causing companies to lay-off. or companies can't get loans to pay their payroll thus have to downsize. and of course the more companies that do this, the less people are gonna buy stuff, the banks get stricter, giving even less loans, causing more companies to fail, causing more people to not buy stuff causing...ok...i think you get the point. at what point does this bottom out? i honestly think we are past recession and into depression. but hey, that's just me. i'm not a financial anylyst or any of the "smart people" who got us into this mess. 

if they removed alot of teh bs pork in this bill it would get alot more support. dems do the same thing if the roles were reversed. Politics man, welcome to juvenile antics 101

Ah, but the Republicans eight years ago were the PORK KINGS (seriously, historic highs).  Now they're against it?  And they'll try to vote down a bill vital to restoring the economy over it?  That's why they lost, folks -- they are willing to put politics over common sense.  If they keep at it, it will be much longer than eight years until they have a shot at getting a majority.

Everything can be classified as pork. Really. Lets say we want to put a satellite into orbit. Its going to be launched from FL, it will have a command in houston and it will be used to monitor weather in wherever ... New orleans lets say. These 3 benifit greatly and michigan gets diddly squat. Easy to call it pork. Everythign is in 1 state or another.
Cool.
Buddha.

You do know that the Democrats have been in control of both houses of congress since 2006, right?

My point is, it's not the Rep. or the Dems. it's all of them.

both parties will spend this country into oblivion if we let them.

The only way to change things is to vote 100% of all congressmen and senators OUT!!!!

Untill we wake up and start acting like the employers that we are and start holding those

office holders accountable for their actions, We will slowly but surely fad away.

BeSafe
PJ

Yes they do things to be elected, not what they think is right or heck even if they know. The CEO hearings - yea I could have nailed their asses to the wall ... but the senate banking commitee morons were just too stupid/corrupt to think up anything.

Yes, I know its silly to assume stupidity when corruption is an option. Stupidity comes into play when really people cannot corruptly work their way out of a tight spot - like Martha Stewart acting on Douglas Fanneuil's tip about selling Imclone because the owner of imclone is selling. The clean way to have done it, is to have claimed that she was going to sell it, claim that Fanneuil's inability to keep his mouth shut cost her $$ and make the firm liable for her stock loss ... instead the Idiot that she was, she sold it and got nailed for insider trading.

Anyway, all politicians should be 1 term only and we keep a tight grip on what is going on in side there. The rank and file will all be aspiring politicians, and there will be 1000's of ex politicians in our general public. That will mean the secrets will be known to a few 1000 people, and the crooks will be caught easier.

And Pelosi and Reid are way worse than any one else ... yes and add in Christopher Dodd and some others too. It will soon get the public disgusted with the whole democrapic party.
Cool.
Buddha.

te republicans were saying BEFORE obama took office they would work hard to hinder him. no matter what he tried to pass. sounds like sour grapes to me. the majority of republicans aren't even attempting to be bipartisan, about anything. they are the ones who got us into the deficit position we are in today, with nothing to show for it either. and yet they are saying this bill is too costly? but it wasn't too much to give the banking industry over 300 billion dollars? to one industry? seriously? give me a f%$king break. and yet, the republicans are saying that they also opposed the bailout money given to the big 3. hmmm..that money actually had something to show for it....they tried to keep their workers working with it. i never saw anything about AIG laying people off, yet they needed over 150 billion dollars? really? what for? and i agree with buddha, anything can be classified as pork, it all depends on your situation. if a measure doesn't affect you directly, it's easy to say it's wasteful. 

Quote from: trumpetguy on February 13, 2009, 01:42:46 PM
Ah, but the Republicans eight years ago were the PORK KINGS (seriously, historic highs).  Now they're against it?  And they'll try to vote down a bill vital to restoring the economy over it?  That's why they lost, folks -- they are willing to put politics over common sense.  If they keep at it, it will be much longer than eight years until they have a shot at getting a majority.

Okay if that is what you think, then ill respect that. but there is crap in this bill that dont need to be there. nothign to do wiht a stimulus of any kind. this is more liek an omnibus bill. where the hell is the line itemveto. and why did pelosi allow only 48 hours for review, and tbh hardyl anyoen read it. or even knew what it contained. that is naive/foolish no matter who is starting it. repub/dem or whatever, but over a thousand pages that was a bit excessive dontcha think? or can you jsutify it ALL?

that's my point J, Republicans don't want the dems to look good just like the dems didn't want bush to look good.

The Dems are just as bad at not being bipartisan as the reps.

They are ALL the problem. each and every one of them.

Until they are ALL voted out, this country will continue to go down hill.

It's time for the american voters to fire the politicians and put new blood in DC.

BeSafe
PJ

The repubuickans can not vote for it, and it will still pass. That means if it fails they can say we told you so. If it succeeds, they can say, man we worked our asses of to get it even better and well, you got some good, but had we got our way, it be much better for you. Either way they have a talking point.
Anyway, I am sure it will fail, as will all other attempts at stimulus. The premise is to prop up sheite like housing, when they oughtta let it drop like a rock and when its hit the depths, they can count on a real rise.
Cool.
Buddha.

and remember a statement obama made something along the lines of no earmarks in my bills, give me time ill find the quote, but im sure TG or frankie or someone can find it sooner. 

oh, he said it. the problem is, they have found a way around it. politics at its best.