I didn't want to hijack Roy D's thread about buying a left over 2008 model.  But this tangent came up and I'm too curious to let it go.

Fred, sorry to put you on the spot, but this is an interesting point you bring up, and I've picked up hints in other posts that you're not alone in your assessment:

"The dealers around here are all about selling people bigger bikes. It is as if they don't treat the GS as a "real" motorcycle. They're happy to sell you a scooter or a GSXR 600, but I think they don't really know what to do with the GS. The dealer I go to for parts usually only has one GS sitting way off in a corner of the lot pretty far away from the other street bikes and close to the dirt bikes and scooters... They also never ever have any GS parts in stock, which leads me to believe they don't think the GS is important enough to actually have things on hand for fixing them. I'm talking about simple parts too, like oil filter cover gaskets, they never have them and always have to order them. They also don't stock any valve shims, which means there is an annoying 3 day wait every time I need to change a shim (although I'm working on avoiding that all together by learning how to make my own, but that's a different story). One more parting piece of evidence: when I ordered a new rear tire for my GS, the lady on the phone said "so, this is a front tire, right?" and then was amazed there were bikes out there that used such a small rear tire..."

Don't get me wrong.  I take it as a point of pride that after being away form motorcycling for 14 years, I come back attracted to the very sort of machine that apparently defies conventional wisdom.  But I have to ask: is the GS500 really such a stretch from the norm? 

As far as horsepower and acceleration are concerned it is way different. Assuming the norm is a 600+  I4 crotch rocket.

yep top speed on a gs is like 2nd or 3rd gear on a 600+ bike.  kids dont want a little old gs500f i know a high school kid bought his first bike last year he got a YZF600 this year he already bought a newer bigger bike why?  because he out grew that little bike.  i really wish honda and suzuki would come out with a 250 sport bike like the ninja i would buy one for my wife in a heart beat and it would bring the price of the ninja down.

It's not so much that they don't respect the GS500 as a cycle.  It's simple numbers.  They sell lots more GSXRs and they make far more profit on those more expensive bikes.  They probably also sell more parts for them (one squid can destroy lots of parts), so they keep more of those in stock.

We're a small market bike.  We're underpowered, old technology.  BUT it's a great bike to learn on, it's fast enough in the hands of a good rider, it's FUN to ride.  What more does one need?

hmm depends on the dealer, I think for the most part you are right. but we have a couple dealers around here that welcome the gs , one even owns a track back that is you guessed it a older gs500. there are a decent bit of parts in stock and they always love to talk about my gs when I come in.   I guess for the money when you are looking at a brand new bike, why not spend the little bit extra and buy the bigger bike?    I am not really a fan of the new GS500 I dont think it was a wise decision to put fairings on it. they should have gone with the naked deal or I think they are on the right track with the new gladius .

to be honest if I didnt own a bike and I went into the dealer to buy a new one, the GS would not be on my list. not because its not a great bike. maybe if it was the way it looked years ago yea but I am not a fan of it new. plus modefying it voids warranty and all that crap.

GS500's are the number 1 selling model in Australia atm 

Quote from: Susuki_Jah on February 11, 2009, 01:46:42 PM
hmm depends on the dealer, I think for the most part you are right. but we have a couple dealers around here that welcome the gs , one even owns a track back that is you guessed it a older gs500. there are a decent bit of parts in stock and they always love to talk about my gs when I come in.   I guess for the money when you are looking at a brand new bike, why not spend the little bit extra and buy the bigger bike?    I am not really a fan of the new GS500 I dont think it was a wise decision to put fairings on it. they should have gone with the naked deal or I think they are on the right track with the new gladius .

to be honest if I didnt own a bike and I went into the dealer to buy a new one, the GS would not be on my list. not because its not a great bike. maybe if it was the way it looked years ago yea but I am not a fan of it new. plus modefying it voids warranty and all that crap.

Aww, I want to go to your dealer.

The most annoying thing people ask me is if the GS can go on the freeway. As if it might be so underpowered it might not go 65... Happens all the time.

Quote from: fred on February 11, 2009, 04:17:38 PM

Quote from: Susuki_Jah on February 11, 2009, 01:46:42 PM
hmm depends on the dealer, I think for the most part you are right. but we have a couple dealers around here that welcome the gs , one even owns a track back that is you guessed it a older gs500. there are a decent bit of parts in stock and they always love to talk about my gs when I come in.   I guess for the money when you are looking at a brand new bike, why not spend the little bit extra and buy the bigger bike?    I am not really a fan of the new GS500 I dont think it was a wise decision to put fairings on it. they should have gone with the naked deal or I think they are on the right track with the new gladius .

to be honest if I didnt own a bike and I went into the dealer to buy a new one, the GS would not be on my list. not because its not a great bike. maybe if it was the way it looked years ago yea but I am not a fan of it new. plus modefying it voids warranty and all that crap.

Aww, I want to go to your dealer.

The most annoying thing people ask me is if the GS can go on the freeway. As if it might be so underpowered it might not go 65... Happens all the time.

haha the GS can go faster than most cars are governed too so what are those silly fools thinking!

Quote from: galahs on February 11, 2009, 03:43:25 PM
GS500's are the number 1 selling model in Australia atm 

really ? wow. where did you pull that info ? cool.

Quote from: Majorhavoc on February 11, 2009, 01:28:11 PM
I didn't want to hijack Roy D's thread about buying a left over 2008 model.  But this tangent came up and I'm too curious to let it go.

Fred, sorry to put you on the spot, but this is an interesting point you bring up, and I've picked up hints in other posts that you're not alone in your assessment:

"The dealers around here are all about selling people bigger bikes. It is as if they don't treat the GS as a "real" motorcycle. They're happy to sell you a scooter or a GSXR 600, but I think they don't really know what to do with the GS. The dealer I go to for parts usually only has one GS sitting way off in a corner of the lot pretty far away from the other street bikes and close to the dirt bikes and scooters... They also never ever have any GS parts in stock, which leads me to believe they don't think the GS is important enough to actually have things on hand for fixing them. I'm talking about simple parts too, like oil filter cover gaskets, they never have them and always have to order them. They also don't stock any valve shims, which means there is an annoying 3 day wait every time I need to change a shim (although I'm working on avoiding that all together by learning how to make my own, but that's a different story). One more parting piece of evidence: when I ordered a new rear tire for my GS, the lady on the phone said "so, this is a front tire, right?" and then was amazed there were bikes out there that used such a small rear tire..."

Don't get me wrong.  I take it as a point of pride that after being away form motorcycling for 14 years, I come back attracted to the very sort of machine that apparently defies conventional wisdom.  But I have to ask: is the GS500 really such a stretch from the norm? 

My real take ? They don't love motorcycling. I've met bicycle dealers that are in good shape, will race occasionally, but don't have that glint in their eye. You know the one I mean. "New Rider" eyes. Happy, full of expectations, full of dreams of riding into the sunset with some chick... all the fun stuff you fantasize about before you own a bike.

Where did it go ? Maybe those 1400CC bikes blew it away. Maybe all the long days and nights trying to over-sell pimply kids with daddy's plastic ? Maybe they just don't give a shaZam! anymore because of other reasons ?

I'd bet there are a few dealers (owners) that still love to ride. I mean love - like LOVE to put the gear on, thumb the starter and even wait for the bike to warm up. LOVE - like can't wait for their first "hey there biker!" wave of the day.

Now and again I'll get that "f%$k I LOVE THIS MACHINE !" feeling... love the waves, love the kids hanging half out of a car to hear my pipe.

There is so much to love about two wheels. I'll settle to just enjoy mine a few more decades if I'm allowed. Let the rich-guy dealers spoil it for themselves- I remember where the fun (GS !) is at.

- Kyle

Quote from: galahs on February 11, 2009, 03:43:25 PM
GS500's are the number 1 selling model in Australia atm 

The reason being (for those of you outside Aus) is that learners and P (provisional) riders in Aus have to conform to power/weight ratio of 150Kw/tonne (or other similar restrictions) in most states meaning the GS500 is about the cheapest/fastest bike you can get while you're learning.

The GS is "old tech" and I kind of like it that way. It was never cutting edge but that doesn't mean it is not a great fun bike to ride. That also means parts for it are cheap and pop up on Ebay all the time - I picked up a complete rear fender for $1 and those little chrome foot guards behind the pegs for $1 each too. Can't do that with Gixxer spares.

Quote from: Majorhavoc on February 11, 2009, 01:28:11 PMBut I have to ask: is the GS500 really such a stretch from the norm? 

In a word..yes... Like it or not its a Dinosaur and people dont want them anymore.......You cant escape the fact that its 20 years old now and the engine and g/box go back even further. Its outlived numerous other models because of the fact its simple and cheap to manufacture and it makes a decent enough profit for Suzuki to keep giving it a stay of execution. It probably works out cheaper to keep making and selling them than it does to shut the production lines down. The bike was left behind by its rivals years ago and its only saving grace is it that its popular with and sells well to learners because it fits in with the various learner laws that exist around the world. A few years ago you could make a fair profit buying and selling the right ones but now values have plummeted, you cant give them away and they are worth more in bits on ebay.

I am not a GS5 hater but I can see that its had its day, markets change and manufactures need to make profits. Ask yourself a question........If you went out to buy a brand new car would you want one thats not changed since 1989?.

Quote from: sledge on February 12, 2009, 06:19:07 AM

In a word..yes... Like it or not its a Dinosaur and people dont want them anymore.......You cant escape the fact that its 20 years old now and the engine and g/box go back even further. Its outlived numerous other models because of the fact its simple and cheap to manufacture and it makes a decent enough profit for Suzuki to keep giving it a stay of execution. It probably works out cheaper to keep making and selling them than it does to shut the production lines down. The bike was left behind by its rivals years ago and its only saving grace is it that its popular with and sells well to learners because it fits in with the various learner laws that exist around the world. A few years ago you could make a fair profit buying and selling the right ones but now values have plummeted, you cant give them away and they are worth more in bits on ebay.

I am not a GS5 hater but I can see that its had its day, markets change and manufactures need to make profits. Ask yourself a question........If you went out to buy a brand new car would you want one thats not changed since 1989?.

There's a lot of merit in what you say and I agree that the air cooled vertical twin has it's roots in a different decade . Back in the day a vertical twin was the hot ticket and nothing was able to touch them. Honda used the vertical twin for ages in their CB450, CB350, CB400, CB450 bikes and sold millions. It wasn't until Honda developed the CB750 inline four that the world changed and the inline four became the defacto standard.

Lately, we've seen the resurgence of various motor types including singles and V-twins in various guises from cruisers to sport bikes. The venerable vertical twin has also been making a comeback and modern examples can be seen in the Kawasaki Versys and BMW F800S which both use a newly designed water cooled vertical twin.

The GS500 uses old technology perhaps, but it has been refined over the years and it's still a viable motor. If they were to develop a water cooled 500cc vertical twin the GS500 would surely continue for many more years. There's nothing wrong with wanting a simple bike that does all things well and is cheap to own and maintain. I've had all kinds of bikes and they were all good but were more than I was using, hence by decision to dumb down to the GS500. I'm still faster than virtually any four wheel vehicle out there and the cost to fun factor is about as low as it gets.

Cruisers to the left of me, crotch rockets to the right, here we are - the closest thing in current production to a UJM.

That's Universal Japanese Motorcycle, for all you folks that were not born when they were firmly in style. A bike that can do pretty much anything pretty well.

The GS is also one of very few bikes in production (or shipped to the US) without an oversized, overweight, gas-sucking motor. 900-this, 1200-that, 1500-the-other oh-my-goodness. Not to mention my aching back and wallet. A 1986 honda hatchback gets better milage than most of those....

Could it be better - sure. But as the dealers don't bother with it, neither does the factory. The decision not to ship E's here anymore clearly does not suit a segment of our population.

For the factory, fuel injection would be easy. Fall right off the log - swap the carbs for a throttle body, modify the exhaust for the sensors, upgrade the computer, leave the rest alone and away we go. As an individual project it's daunting, and you can just go buy a FI bike so much easier and cheaper. Scale it up and it's easy and fairly cheap.

I'd be happy to see something like a "SV 500" (or 400) - injected, liquid-cooled, V-twin - but I was quite happy to buy a GS last year in part because it's been made with pretty much the same parts for 18 years, so they are easily available. Not that I bought a new one, or would - for the price some folks want for a used F, I'd have to give strong consideration to a used BMW F650 - not that I've checked one out to see how it fits. As posted in July, I'm not quite happy with the fit of the GS500, but I haven't yet made the modifications to improve it - and spring is coming, so I should do that. Than get back to the old bike, which actually fits quite well.

-Rambling observations-


A lot of people buy motorcycles not because they enjoy riding them, owning them, or working on them, but because they enjoy being seen on them.  Therefore, they must buy something that looks good.  The GS-500 doesn't fit into that category.  It doesn't look like a repli-racer, and the engine is definitely too small for "street cred".  Same thing applies to Harleys.  Very few guys will buy a Sportster, because that's a "girl's bike".

Personally, I don't care.  A motorcycle, ANY motorcycle, is all I need for enjoyment.

Just last weekend, I went out for a few hundred miles on the SV before work.  It was 65F out, so a number of the "fair weather weenies" were out.  When I left town, a small group had gathered just off the highway.  They waved for me to join them.  I gave them the "no thanks" wave and headed out of town.  Four hours later when I came though to head the other way, they were still there, seeing and being seen.

Quote from: SteveM on February 12, 2009, 07:06:37 AM
The GS500 uses old technology perhaps, but it has been refined over the years and it's still a viable motor. If they were to develop a water cooled 500cc vertical twin the GS500 would surely continue for many more years.

Unlikely.....and in fairness you could say the same thing about any air cooled twin from any manufacturer from the last 35 years, they all did the same thing.

The relative simplicity and the age of the GS5 will be its downfall, it has a huge sword hanging over its head in the form of the Tier2 (USA) and Euro3 emission regulations.

http://www.bikersrights.com/epa/EPA_emmissionsHistory.html

http://www.aimag.com/epa/Nov04-pt2.htm

There is no K9 model listed for the UK for 2009, and the K8 (2008) was identical to the K7 (2007) so any remaining UK stock will be K7. It got a stay of execution here in the UK a few years ago when it was dropped from the lineup, then reintroduced when the dates for Euro3 compliance were put back by 2 years. This tells me Suzuki have no intention of modifying it to comply. Particularly as since then they have introduced the GSXF650F and the Gladius both of which do meet the requirements as Suzuki are keen to point out in all the adverts and sales blurb.

I am certain we will without doubt be saying goodbye to the GS5 and its 30+ year old engine for good when Tier2 and Euro3 does finally become law in 2010.

I dont see why we cannot make a tighter GS with full electronics in it. Exhaust sensors, temp and O2 sensors, FI, a tighter set of rings, decent valves and good bearings everywhere to prevent its wear from ruining the motor's clean burning.
I'd actually not even mandate the bikes to conform to EPA when new. I want it to conform to EPA when it has 20K miles on it.
Anyway they can build a tighter motor load it with some tech and conform to anything. But will it sell ... or will they think it will sell. That is the final factor in its continuation/death. we could bombard suzuki and see that they continue it. Or heck I'd like a ninja 650 style GS. Parallel twins rock. V twins suck IMHO.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on February 12, 2009, 09:53:06 AM
I dont see why we cannot make a tighter GS with full electronics in it. Exhaust sensors, temp and O2 sensors, FI, a tighter set of rings, decent valves and good bearings everywhere to prevent its wear from ruining the motor's clean burning.
I'd actually not even mandate the bikes to conform to EPA when new. I want it to conform to EPA when it has 20K miles on it.
Anyway they can build a tighter motor load it with some tech and conform to anything. But will it sell ... or will they think it will sell. That is the final factor in its continuation/death. we could bombard suzuki and see that they continue it. Or heck I'd like a ninja 650 style GS. Parallel twins rock. V twins suck IMHO.
Cool.
Buddha.

Agreed......it wouldnt be difficult at all. The issue is as you say, would it sell in enough numbers to make it worthwhile?.........I think not, if it was, Suzuki would have done it by now.

I suspect they will make one ... except it will be like ... crappier and cheesier.
Perimeter frame - out.
High end suspension (its 37mm right ) - out, it will ahve cheesy spindly crap.
17 alloy wheels - out, shitty crap 15/16's.
That light spindly bike will be powered by a 450 CC fuel injected twin with modern FI and exhaust sensors etc etc and it will run 75mpg on any fuel and make no emmissions. It will have variable length intake tract and exhaust etc etc which will need extra room behind the motor and get it very fuel economic.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on February 12, 2009, 09:53:06 AMI dont see why we cannot make a tighter GS with full electronics in it. Exhaust sensors, temp and O2 sensors, FI, a tighter set of rings, decent valves and good bearings everywhere to prevent its wear from ruining the motor's clean burning.

1: I can't see them doing all of that to the engine and not doing something about the budget suspension and heavy frame and gas tank.

2: Once the R&D costs for all of that are factored into the cost of the bike, people will say 'Bah, I can get a used GSX-R600 for less than that."

Just the way 'Merucans think.  Bigger is better.  I was so delighted when Yamaha made the WR250R/X - a new-school FI engine, light and peppy, with long service intervals; a light street-legal DP/'tard with a real suspension and six speeds.  Once they did, what I heard over and over on forums was,  "Geez, they should have made it a 450.  I won't pay that much for a 250."