So!
I screwed up.  Bought my bike from a meth addict.  Mistake number one. 
Mistake number two: I couldn't tell an old title from an actual title. 

Bottom line:  he never sent the old title in, after he purchased the bike.  Yes, it's a felony.  No, he doesn't care.  He's a meth addict.  The enforcement office in Appalachian NC told me to just get a bonded title.  They said they'd never find the guy to have him file the paperwork. 

I jumped through the necessary hoops, filed the paperwork for a bonded title.  I was given a plate, had an inspection, everything. 
While waiting for the new title to come in the mail from the state office, I instead received a letter of denial. 




So, I've hit the wall. 
This guy lives many hours away.  Violence isn't gonna do me much good.  He's already thrown the old title away, anyway.  Plus, he's moved and won't give me the new address. 
I'm considering a mechanic's lien, but I have no paperwork saying that he's approved repair on the bike.  The title office won't give me the name and address of the previous owner, so I can't track her down to finish the paperwork. 

Any ideas toward a solution, oh mighty gstwin.com? 

If no one has any ideas, then I'm gonna have a CHERRY track/stunt bike for sale. 

what was the reason the denied your title paperwork?

As far as the state office is concerned, the original title (from the owner previous to the druggy) is still in existence.  When he bought it, she signed it over to him.  But, he never mailed it in to the state.  Apparently, he ran out of money before he could afford to put tags on it.
Usually the tag office will ask for the title before they'll give you a plate and registration.  I guess.  The last time I bought a car was in Europe, and in the military no less. 


I saw a title and thought everything was fine, originally.  Bought the bike.  Came back with my trailer the next day, found out about the title problem.  Considered beating the seller with a piece of pvc pipe to get my money back.  Didn't think at all of simply calling the police. 
Took the bike home, figured I was screwed anyway.  Seller kept trying to con me for cash, saying that he'd close out the title for various sums of money.  Said he'd also mail it to me for separate sums of money.  I told him that he was committing a felony, and I'd call the po-po if he didn't close it out himself.  Whereupon, he threw the title in the garbage. 

As it stands, I can't get a copy of the original title.  It must be the original owner.  The state office won't give me her name or address so that I can ask, just that it's a female that lives somewhere in NC.  The meth-head knows who it is, but is unable to be located.  He moved almost immediately after selling the bike to me.  My local title enforcement office (and the one in his county) approves of the bonded title, since this sort of thing is a problem in this ghetto of a state.  But, the state office will not recognize their decision. 

The state office does say that I could file a complaint form, but it would take about two years to find completion (based on previous cases and their back-log). 



What I'm trying to find is another alternative.  I've searched the net, but can't really find much about it.  I've considered buying a titled frame and having the VIN region welded onto my frame.  I've powdercoated my frame, and would like to keep it.  (I did it while believing in the authority of the local authority, not just out of idiocy.)  However, tampering with VINs is very recognizable and not likely to go unnoticed.  I've considered a mechanic's lien, like I said, but I have authorization from the seller to complete work on the bike.  I've looked into obtaining a new title under the assumption that the old one is lost, but obviously the state isn't letting me do that.  So, I'm at very near loss. 

Any help in the matter would really be greatly appreciated. 
Yes, I could have stolen the bike and simply be trying to manipulate you.  But, I've got a proof of sale (which means nothing in my state, apparently), and receipts showing that I've put more work into the bike than the state believes it is worth. 
According to the state of NC, a 93 GS500 is only worth about $500, if you're wondering. 







GAAAAH! All of these stupid damm hoops to jump through for a bike that's only worth $500!!!!!  Who do I have to frigging bribe?!!

file the complaint paperwork and in the meantime get a titled frame, swamp over what you need to and ride ride ride.

Do you have a friend or relative in another state?  Give the bike to them and have them try and get it titled (you'd pay for it obviously) using some method that their state uses.  Once it's taken care of "buy" it back from them.

Though something like that may be a huge pain, it sounds like it'd be easier than trying to find a meth addict and convince him to sign some papers.

Commuterdude:
That's what I'm trying to avoid.  But, thank you for the input.  I may end up doing that.  
I just got this thing put back together just recently and it's a gem.  I'd hate to do something like that if there's another solution.  

VSG,
That's interesting.  As far as I know, every state does it the same way.  Is there some sort of back door that I don't know about?  I mean, I thought each state would recognize the old title also.  Is there anything else you know about it?  Don't worry, I'm not gonna try to recruit you to run paperwork or burn you if you're wrong.  I'm trying to put my @$$hole days behind me. 


Where's lawdog when you need him?  

Has anyone ever used a mechanic's lien or a "possessory lien for an unclaimed vehicle"?

option 1: use your state's VIN database to look up the previous owner. florida's looks like this: https://www6.hsmv.state.fl.us/rrdmvcheck/mvcheckinq and then do 200 pages of paperwork while waiting 5 years for the title to arrive.

not that i think it's going to help you, but you wanted to try (i think).


option 2:
look for a gs frame on gstwins, or ebay, then run the VIN provided through the databases (of the seller's claimed state) to be sure the title is clear, clean, and non-salvage. then swap your stuff over, and give the frame you're having trouble with a sawz-all treatment.

i'd go for option 2

sht.


Yeah, I wanted to try.  The surety process, abandoned vehicle, whatever.  You're right.  It's not gonna work. 
Stupid "system" won't even give me the previous owner's name so I can ask her in person and pay the fees myself. 
sht.


I knew better than to get into this mess.  I was just so flipping excited. 

You're the quintessential idea MAN, ohgood!



Anybody have a titled frame? 
Buddha, I know you're lurking around.  Sell me one of your frames.  I only need a piece of it, anyway.  I can pick it up this coming weekend, if you have one. 

Quote from: wladziu on March 08, 2009, 04:51:51 PM
sht.


Yeah, I wanted to try.  The surety process, abandoned vehicle, whatever.  You're right.  It's not gonna work. 
Stupid "system" won't even give me the previous owner's name so I can ask her in person and pay the fees myself. 
sht.


I knew better than to get into this mess.  I was just so flipping excited. 

You're the quintessential idea MAN, ohgood!



Anybody have a titled frame? 
Buddha, I know you're lurking around.  Sell me one of your frames.  I only need a piece of it, anyway.  I can pick it up this coming weekend, if you have one. 

while you're open to ideas... when i run MY title through florida's system, it shows all the previous owners (including the ones in georgia), myself, and then ends. this is correct because i've recently changed to alabama for residence. now, i should expect alabama to mail out my title in..... oh....... 3.2 years, and there will most definitely be a problem iwth the numbers. always when state to state. 

something else you can do is see what it takes to file an abandoned vehical claim. In Michigan when I was a kid I remember people doing this when their car would break down and they would push it to someones property in order to get it off the road. Once and a while someone would not come back for it, and yet the vehical stil had value and instead of junking it some people wanted to drive it or sell it to another erson. Before i did this I would first get it checked to assure that it wasn't stolen, or other wise it would automatically go back to them or the insurance company. Now if it comes up stolen then turn in this Meth head for selling stolen property! Another thing you can do is get cozzy with an independent cad dealer / lot and slip them a few bucks to track down the title holder and send them a nice letter explaning that the title was lost and ask for them to sign off and send them a nice little reward for their inconvience. You could also build your own frame and get it titled though the state as a custom  built motorcycle. How do you think people who build project bikes get them titled, or have a fram shop make you cutom fram with a titl for you. -- happy hunting friend! -- JIm

Frame transfer or part out, or well ... the other thing ...
You cant bond your way out of a title if the previous title was in NC ... they almost got me that way ... but I managed to escape, it was an NC bike that was titled in VA immediately prior to me getting it without a title. They had a record, but they also had a VA record or something like that.
NC has some serious bureaucracy going on. Total POS.
No one gets $ in full from me without a title with their name, their signature and a notary - no one. 1/2 payment now, 1/2 when title is delivered - that is it.
Anyway I dont know what else dude. I empathise with you. I also should say that 99% of the clown in this state have no idea, and I have lost so many cheap bikes because of this little point I insist on. Last year the $500 savage almost didn't get to me right. However that guy realised I may be right, and he eventually agreed to take 200 when title was made, and sure enough, he had to get it done.
Cool.
Buddha.

Screw it. 

I have an idea for you. My friends dad repairs old motorcycles for a living and he recommended me to International Title Service. http://www.its-titles.com/
My uncle gave me the bike and he didn't have a title, so I had to get one this way.

I used them for my bike (1992 GS) and it only took a couple of weeks. They are very reputable and legit, and my friends dad has used them a ton for his stuff. I would give them a call and see what they can do for you. Your bike does have to be over 15 years old, but since yours is a 1993 you should be ok. You will need a bill of sale, too.

I hope this will help you!

Thanks.  Cheaper than the other service I was looking at.  Maybe cheaper than finding a titled framed.  It's unlikely that someone would have a trashed frame with clean papers, anyway. 

Regarding the friend in another state, that was just an idea I was throwing it.  Most likely it would be a lot of trouble and probably wouldn't work out too well.  RMV isn't known for competence or efficiency.

not time to do real research in your state, but maybe later.  Meantime...

http://scoot.net/faq/Register_a_barn_find#North_Carolina

http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/vehicle_services/registrationtitling/titlemanual/download/NCTitleManual.pdf
3.9 PROCEDURE TO USE WHEN NORTH CAROLINA TITLE LOST AFTER
ENDORSED (MVR-46 SERIES)
Situations When The MVR-46 Would Be Used:
Documents lost by Division Dealership is out of business
Documents lost in the mail Break-in at dealership or license plate office
North Carolina title has been properly assigned before a notary and delivered to the purchaser with the vehicle and the title
is lost, the purchaser may obtain a title by submitting:
1. Proper ID as required by G.S. 20-52(A) (see Official Bulletin 202)
2. Affidavit by lienholder (MVR-46D) or separate lien release
3. Affidavit from the registered owner (registrant) that the title was endorsed in the presence of a notary and
delivered to the purchaser (MVR-46B.)
4. Purchaser's affidavit that he accepted the title, properly assigned before a notary and disposition made of the
original title document (MVR-46A.)
5. If sold by a dealer, the dealer's affidavit (MVR-46C.)
6. A secure MVR-2 (Dealer's Reassignment Form) must be used for reassignment of vehicles ten years old or
newer. This is required in accordance with the Truth in Mileage Act of 1986.
7. Purchaser must complete Form MVR-1, application for title, signing in the presence of a notary declaring
any existing liens.
8. Purchaser must complete Form MVR-615, eligible risk statement for insurance.
9. $40.00 title fee
10. Highway use tax is due:
a. Dealer sale requires a bill of sale, 3% of purchase price less trade in
b. Casual sale determined by computer value of vehicle
11. Vehicle must have a current North Carolina inspection prior to issuance of a plate.
If title assigned and then lost, a mandatory 15-day waiting period will occur before the title is issued.
A vehicle that is sold on Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin and the MCO is lost will require the dealer to
complete Affidavit by North Carolina Dealer (Form MVR-85.)

Incidentally, don't call the previous owner if you can avoid it... Technically, if it's not registered, they're not PREVIOUS... see the problem?

Try www.staabagency.com for a quick service. I have used them and so have many friends who like old bikes but find the paperwork lacking.........

Don't give up.  Take the good advice the others are giving you.  Personally I'd call my lawyer and ask him, but I think he'd tell me to hire a title service.  Hiring a title service can't be more expensive than all the hassle you've gone through so far, and you said yourself the bike is sweet!  You've come too far to turn back now.  If you don't procrastinate I bet you'll be riding it by Memorial Day.  Now that's not so bad, is it?  Here in NY getting a new title for an old bike with a lost title takes 3-4 months.  NC can't be any slower than that.