Rotational inertia and gyroscopic precession are scary things. I'm not a fan of the idea of an uncontrolled spinning mass that doesn't need to be there. The wheel has enough inertia that you could probably knock the bike over with precession alone if your RPMs go high enough. If you bike starts idling high on a warm day and you go to grab the handlebars, you could easily torque the bike enough to cause the back wheel to precess and knock the bike over. If you're unlucky, it could fall on you, if you're lucky, it will fall the other way and just get all dented up. My bike will jump to 3 or 4 thousand RPM once it starts to warm up on a warm day. In first gear, that's something like 15 miles an hour. That works out to the rear wheel spinning at something like 17,000RPM. Think about those experiments at kid's museums with the bicycle wheels with handles attached. Remember how little force it takes to get them to torque you around? You've created the same exact thing with a heavier wheel that is potentially spinning much faster for no apparent reason. It seems silly to create risk where risk doesn't have to exist.

Quote from: ojstinson on April 09, 2009, 05:00:34 AM
The only time you need to touch the clutch is when you are starting the engine---you don need it to put the bike in gear and get the wheel spinning, or to take it out of gear. It's not a big deal, it's just something that works for me. I just don't see a problem with having the oil circulating throughout the engine and transmission and warming up at the same time.

with that statement im not sure why your worried about warming your bike up at all your going to be putting a new set of gears in way before your motor ever has a chance to give up on you.

Quote from: fred on April 09, 2009, 01:29:28 PM
Rotational inertia and gyroscopic precession are scary things. I'm not a fan of the idea of an uncontrolled spinning mass that doesn't need to be there. The wheel has enough inertia that you could probably knock the bike over with precession alone if your RPMs go high enough. If you bike starts idling high on a warm day and you go to grab the handlebars, you could easily torque the bike enough to cause the back wheel to precess and knock the bike over. If you're unlucky, it could fall on you, if you're lucky, it will fall the other way and just get all dented up. My bike will jump to 3 or 4 thousand RPM once it starts to warm up on a warm day. In first gear, that's something like 15 miles an hour. That works out to the rear wheel spinning at something like 17,000RPM. Think about those experiments at kid's museums with the bicycle wheels with handles attached. Remember how little force it takes to get them to torque you around? You've created the same exact thing with a heavier wheel that is potentially spinning much faster for no apparent reason. It seems silly to create risk where risk doesn't have to exist.

Fred, I need you to tell on which planet and in which universe a bike going 15 miles a hour has a rear wheel speed of 17000 RPM----do you happen to be a science fiction writer by any chance?

Quote from: joshr08 on April 09, 2009, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: ojstinson on April 09, 2009, 05:00:34 AM
The only time you need to touch the clutch is when you are starting the engine---you don need it to put the bike in gear and get the wheel spinning, or to take it out of gear. It's not a big deal, it's just something that works for me. I just don't see a problem with having the oil circulating throughout the engine and transmission and warming up at the same time.

with that statement im not sure why your worried about warming your bike up at all your going to be putting a new set of gears in way before your motor ever has a chance to give up on you.

Josh, you are an extremely funny guy, but seriously folks BA Dump Ba Dump--I had no idea a motorcycle forum could be this much fun. Anyhoo----Mary claims that you can't shift a bike w/o pulling in the clutch, I told her that is simply not true. I Never said I do that, I said it's possible---I said some bike drag racers do it------Get IT!

Nope this is it for me. You wanna ruin your clutch like that sure ya can but I'm not I had to do it in my truck when I got hit by a car I didn't like it then and not gonna do it now because racers do it.

But, that is how the Darwin awards go right can't tell them the right way cause they don't listen so survival of the fitist! I do hope you don't have a pet my cat loves to jump on the bike when it's idling. Loves the vibration sick cat. Now your thinking a cat couldn't do any damage but I know for a fact when this cat runs and bounces off something she can move a love seat with me in it. So, one day she spazzes out and one gets mauled in the wheel two the bike does manage to go over in the garage and causes mayhem.

Just hope I never read about it in the Senitnal what can I say. YOU CAN'T TEACH THEM DAMN FLORIDIANS NOTHING!

oh wait I reseamble that remark.
Mary

Quote from: ojstinson on April 09, 2009, 02:02:26 PM

Quote from: fred on April 09, 2009, 01:29:28 PM
Rotational inertia and gyroscopic precession are scary things. I'm not a fan of the idea of an uncontrolled spinning mass that doesn't need to be there. The wheel has enough inertia that you could probably knock the bike over with precession alone if your RPMs go high enough. If you bike starts idling high on a warm day and you go to grab the handlebars, you could easily torque the bike enough to cause the back wheel to precess and knock the bike over. If you're unlucky, it could fall on you, if you're lucky, it will fall the other way and just get all dented up. My bike will jump to 3 or 4 thousand RPM once it starts to warm up on a warm day. In first gear, that's something like 15 miles an hour. That works out to the rear wheel spinning at something like 17,000RPM. Think about those experiments at kid's museums with the bicycle wheels with handles attached. Remember how little force it takes to get them to torque you around? You've created the same exact thing with a heavier wheel that is potentially spinning much faster for no apparent reason. It seems silly to create risk where risk doesn't have to exist.

Fred, I need you to tell on which planet and in which universe a bike going 15 miles a hour has a rear wheel speed of 17000 RPM----do you happen to be a science fiction writer by any chance?

Doh, off by a factor of 60. Still, 280 RPM is a lot for a wheel that heavy.

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on April 09, 2009, 03:25:15 PM
Nope this is it for me. You wanna ruin your clutch like that sure ya can but I'm not I had to do it in my truck when I got hit by a car I didn't like it then and not gonna do it now because racers do it.

But, that is how the Darwin awards go right can't tell them the right way cause they don't listen so survival of the fitist! I do hope you don't have a pet my cat loves to jump on the bike when it's idling. Loves the vibration sick cat. Now your thinking a cat couldn't do any damage but I know for a fact when this cat runs and bounces off something she can move a love seat with me in it. So, one day she spazzes out and one gets mauled in the wheel two the bike does manage to go over in the garage and causes mayhem.

Just hope I never read about it in the Senitnal what can I say. YOU CAN'T TEACH THEM DAMN FLORIDIANS NOTHING!

oh wait I reseamble that remark.
Mary
[/quote

You are A- OK in my book Mary, I don't care what anyone says.

Quote from: fred on April 09, 2009, 03:28:37 PM

Quote from: ojstinson on April 09, 2009, 02:02:26 PM

Quote from: fred on April 09, 2009, 01:29:28 PM
Rotational inertia and gyroscopic precession are scary things. I'm not a fan of the idea of an uncontrolled spinning mass that doesn't need to be there. The wheel has enough inertia that you could probably knock the bike over with precession alone if your RPMs go high enough. If you bike starts idling high on a warm day and you go to grab the handlebars, you could easily torque the bike enough to cause the back wheel to precess and knock the bike over. If you're unlucky, it could fall on you, if you're lucky, it will fall the other way and just get all dented up. My bike will jump to 3 or 4 thousand RPM once it starts to warm up on a warm day. In first gear, that's something like 15 miles an hour. That works out to the rear wheel spinning at something like 17,000RPM. Think about those experiments at kid's museums with the bicycle wheels with handles attached. Remember how little force it takes to get them to torque you around? You've created the same exact thing with a heavier wheel that is potentially spinning much faster for no apparent reason. It seems silly to create risk where risk doesn't have to exist.

Fred, I need you to tell on which planet and in which universe a bike going 15 miles a hour has a rear wheel speed of 17000 RPM----do you happen to be a science fiction writer by any chance?

Doh, off by a factor of 60. Still, 280 RPM is a lot for a wheel that heavy.

OK Fred, I'll buy that------you were just testing me ------Right?

Quote from: ojstinson on April 09, 2009, 03:42:32 PM

Quote from: fred on April 09, 2009, 03:28:37 PM

Quote from: ojstinson on April 09, 2009, 02:02:26 PM

Quote from: fred on April 09, 2009, 01:29:28 PM
Rotational inertia and gyroscopic precession are scary things. I'm not a fan of the idea of an uncontrolled spinning mass that doesn't need to be there. The wheel has enough inertia that you could probably knock the bike over with precession alone if your RPMs go high enough. If you bike starts idling high on a warm day and you go to grab the handlebars, you could easily torque the bike enough to cause the back wheel to precess and knock the bike over. If you're unlucky, it could fall on you, if you're lucky, it will fall the other way and just get all dented up. My bike will jump to 3 or 4 thousand RPM once it starts to warm up on a warm day. In first gear, that's something like 15 miles an hour. That works out to the rear wheel spinning at something like 17,000RPM. Think about those experiments at kid's museums with the bicycle wheels with handles attached. Remember how little force it takes to get them to torque you around? You've created the same exact thing with a heavier wheel that is potentially spinning much faster for no apparent reason. It seems silly to create risk where risk doesn't have to exist.

Fred, I need you to tell on which planet and in which universe a bike going 15 miles a hour has a rear wheel speed of 17000 RPM----do you happen to be a science fiction writer by any chance?

Doh, off by a factor of 60. Still, 280 RPM is a lot for a wheel that heavy.

OK Fred, I'll buy that------you were just testing me ------Right?

Let's just say this is the first day in a week that I've worked fewer than 13 hours. It is crunch time at work and if that wasn't enough, I've been sucked into another project that is also crunching. I'm hoping that sometime after the 17th I'll actually have a day off...