Hey guys,

Just got my first bike, watched the Kerry video, got tools and went to it!

The right exhaust (front right side) bucket seems to be stuck...
The buckets will NOT turn freely and there is a lot of clearance, >0.09mm

I can stick in a jewelers screwdriver and it turn with A LOT of resistance, but I can't turn it around properly (no way to with that much resistance)

I'm at a loss as to what to do???  Do I have to take off the four bolts holding down the cam???
Or is there a way to rig something to pull it around?

Please help!  My first bike and first time at this stuff.  It's actually pretty easy, except when something goes wrong!

I tried to pick up the shim with a magnet anyways but I guess mine isn't strong enough...

You should be able to turn the bucket around.  Is the cam positioned properly to provide max clearance?  That would be the base of the cam directly above shim.

It's not very difficult to take the cams off. In fact, it's a lot easier to get at the shims/buckets that way. But it takes longer, as you have to release the camchain tension and reset the timing. Again, not very difficult. Just takes longer. I had a bucket that didn't rotate once and just said hell with it. It was rotating again the next time I adjusted the valves.

Ok I guess I'll have to take the cams off, ugh.
Yeah it's max clearance.

You have to redo the cam chain tensioner too?!?

This project never ends!

Blah, not to over exaggerate...

My bucket was stuck similar to yours (as in, couldn't spin), ending up with a loud POP, and then a no-start. The bucket, (same, 'right front') just wasn't the right fit. I ended up just replacing mine altogether.

02 with about 14,000 miles on mine.

If you do pull the cams, do as the manual says, ie. notches lined up, timing on the mark etc, and it might not hurt to check if any of the other buckets fit in that 'hole.'  It might just save your valves in the long run. And its free to test.

PS. I did the same thing you did, first bike, first 'tear down.' I would say, just go for it, don't let big scary manuals, or big scary message boards deter you!

The camchain thing is easy, all you have to do is stick a screwdriver in it and turn clockwise to release the tension.

Quote from: McD on April 19, 2009, 12:32:04 AM
Blah, not to over exaggerate...

My bucket was stuck similar to yours (as in, couldn't spin), ending up with a loud POP, and then a no-start. The bucket, (same, 'right front') just wasn't the right fit. I ended up just replacing mine altogether.

02 with about 14,000 miles on mine.

If you do pull the cams, do as the manual says, ie. notches lined up, timing on the mark etc, and it might not hurt to check if any of the other buckets fit in that 'hole.'  It might just save your valves in the long run. And its free to test.

PS. I did the same thing you did, first bike, first 'tear down.' I would say, just go for it, don't let big scary manuals, or big scary message boards deter you!

Thanks!  Do you mean it popped one day while you were riding?  Why/how did it pop?
I don't have a torque wrench yet, which is why I don't want to remove the cams...
I'm going to try removing the shim from the back in a few days when I have time... maybe I can somehow spin the bucket around too.

How are things working out?

Mine 'popped' right on start up. In my carport. Sounded like a gunshot. My bucket was then STUCK. As in, Couldn't get it out with out removing the head.

I bought an old school non-click type torque wrench for less than 15 bucks as an auto store.

Other than using a bigger screw driver and maneuvering the bucket somehow, you might have to remove the cam. It isn't that difficult, just take your time and do as the manual says. I also took pictures along the way, mostly just to remind myself and because the pictures in the manual isn't going to be EXACTLY like real life. It just doesn't work out that way.

One more thing...
If you can find the 'gap' in the bucket, you oughta be able to pop the shim out even if the bucket doesn't spin perfectly. So that you can replace your shim.
As your engine warms up, the aluminum expands, and your bucket will loosen. It's not the perfect fix, but at least you'll be able to ride!

Ok, so I put it back together and went for a ride...
Left it overnight because the manual said you need to have a cool engine.

Replaced the one shim that was less than 0.04mm clearance.
The other two shims are ok.

The left right exhaust I tried everything I could think of besides removing the camshafts... I even tried using a dental pick to pry it out but it just wouldn't give...
I think I'll leave it for now.  The camshaft removal is a bit intimidating to me, because the timing can't be screwed up...

The clearance is probably something like 0.095mm or something, I'm not sure.  Apparently it's not as bad as being too tight...

Put everything back together before I got too frustrated!!!!!

WHY WON'T THE STUPID BUCKET TURN!!!! 

Two tricks:

First, you can buy for almost nothing a set of hardened steel picks.  These will have straight points, curved points, angled points, etc.  Second, you can get a small telescoping magnet.

With the picks and/or a jeweler's screwdriver, you can find the slot on the bucket and wedge the shim up, even without the bucket turned.  Then, with the magnet, you can slide the shim out under the cam lobe, assuming the lobe is correctly placed- turn with the stator nut.  It may be faster than dealing with cam removal and tension if you get good at it, but maybe not.  It can be very frustrating, but I hate dealing with the cam chain, so I've done it the pick and magnet way many times on a few bikes.

You can sometimes also use the pick to turn the bucket by wedging the slot.

I would not change the shim unless you free up or replace the tight bucket first or you might end up with a tight valve clearance instead of a loose one.  I had a tight exhaust valve bucket on my 02 GS which I assume came from the factory that way.  I bought it used and discovered the tight bucket when first checking the valves at about 10k miles.  It measured about .008" clearance and I couldn budge the bucket even putting a screwdriver in the notch and hitting it with a hammer.  I decided to let it go for a while to see if it would loosen up with additional wear. It didn't.

The bike would start up cold and run rough for about 30-60 seconds and then smooth out as the aluminum head heated and expanded and the bucket freed up and it ran perfectly after that.  There was no noise indicating a loose tappet.  No problem I thought but when I cranked the starter one very cold winter morning it stopped with a bang and the engine was locked up.  The colder the ambient, the tighter the bucket, I think if I didn't run year around and never started it in the winter I would have never broken the exhaust valve.  It went 21k miles before the big bang.

I pulled the head and repaired it and the engine is still running like new now with over 68k miles on it.  Here's my broken valve:



After the engine repair that exhaust valve had only .004" clearance with the same shim so the tight bucket was holding the valve open increasing the clearance and putting in a larger shim before the bucket repair would have resulted in a tight valve hot.

I now set exhaust valves at .004-.005" when changing shims to extend exhaust valve life. 

Removing the cams is not at all difficult. You will be surprised and pleased with yourself when the job is done.

+1 gsJack.  Leaving the situation will ultimately end in bigger problems.

Go for it and try a repair. We are here to help.

I may misread, but I understand that it's not a stuck bucket, he just can't turn it - if the notch is facing away, or under the lobe, you may not be able to get the thing to spin.  I have, on occasion, gotten the shim out with my pick/magnet method, then turned the bucket.  If, though, you can turn the stator nut and the bucket moves, I wouldn't be too worried about the gsjack stuck bucket problem.  Just me, maybe.

I had the cover off a few days ago before putting it back together.

I tried using that dental pick, jewel screwdriver, and two magnetic pick up tools
Nothing worked, so I'm guessing the shim is in there pretty tight.

The bucket "moves".  It moves up and down just fine.  It also can be moved so the notch can be shifted around, BUT it is VERY hard to move it.  So there is NO way I can move the notch to access it from the proper way.

So, I'm guessing the best solution is to eventually replace the bucket?  How much are those?...
http://www.bikebandit.com/showschematic/m6061sch503302
I'm assuming 14/13 on this schematic but the parts listed are messed up...

It's been running ok lately, my first bike so I don't know what OK really means...

Thanks.