Bad needle that has clogged it shut.
Second option is a bad atmospheric vent. Rare, unless the carb been lying face down in the big muddy ...
Cool.
Buddha.

The atmospheric vent is the top T right?  Well either way all the hoses were replaced when I reinstalled the carbs and are brand new.  I did get it started, and it idles however fuel is still coming out of the left carb.  Here is a recap.

*Cleaned and reinstalled carbs yesterday.  There was next to no gunk in the float bowls and none of the jets were clogged.  I did mangle up the pilot jets getting them out, however they are not blocked or cloged.
*Primed, and tried to start and the bike would crank but wouldn't turn over.  Fuel started leaking out of the airbox drain tube.  Upon inspection it was the left carb that was leaking into the airbox.



*Tore it all back out and rechecked everything.
   Left Carb:
     - Left carbs pilot jet wasn't fully tightened, tightened it snug.
     - Tried to reset left float height (still unsure on procedure, book isn't very clear!)
   Right Carb:
     - The float needle was sticking in the needle valve.  Little sanding on the sides of the float needle and its smooth as butter now.
     - Tried to reset right float height (again, still unclear on proper procedure.)
     - Small bit of gunk blocking the drain plug of right float bowl.  Carb was getting gas, just wasn't able to tell since i couldn't drain the bowl!  Cleared clog and all is good.
*Reinstalled carbs, left airbox off, and primed the carbs.  After awhile of cranking with different variations of choke on/off, and throttle at WOT, middle, or off and the bike actually started!  I adjusted the throttle cable and its able to idle pretty well.  However, fuel is still leaking from the left carb.

So my questions are as follows:
  1.) Will I ****HAVE**** to replace that worn float needle or can I still use the one I have?  If so, where to get it, and how much?
  2.) What size clear tubing do I need to check the float heights per the WIKI's instructions? and where do I get it?
  3.) What is the proper procedure for setting float heights?
  4.) What can cause the fuel to run into the airbox on prime only from the left carb?  Also fuel was leaking pretty bad at idle from the left carb, and while cranking it.

Thanks,

Nick


PS: Trying to host the video somewhere now to post it.
PSS: Didn't notice that the exhaust was drilled to I started it.  LOUD!

To run it a leaking float needle should let you squeak by ... could leak, run very sneezy and farty etc etc, and sucky gas mileage. But run it will.
The rest - set floats after you get the needle replaced.
Cool.
Srinath.

Here is the video of it running, with the puddle of gas on the floor at the end!



So my questions are as follows:
  1.) Will I ****HAVE**** to replace that worn float needle or can I still use the one I have?  If so, where to get it, and how much?
  2.) What size clear tubing do I need to check the float heights per the WIKI's instructions? and where do I get it?
  3.) What is the proper procedure for setting float heights?
  4.) What can cause the fuel to run into the airbox on prime only from the left carb?  Also fuel was leaking pretty bad at idle from the left carb, and while cranking it.

Thanks,

Nick

Any other thoughts?

Quote from: utgunslinger13 on May 18, 2009, 07:20:26 PM
Any other thoughts?

QuoteSo my questions are as follows:
  1.) Will I ****HAVE**** to replace that worn float needle or can I still use the one I have?  If so, where to get it, and how much?
  2.) What size clear tubing do I need to check the float heights per the WIKI's instructions? and where do I get it?
  3.) What is the proper procedure for setting float heights?
  4.) What can cause the fuel to run into the airbox on prime only from the left carb?  Also fuel was leaking pretty bad at idle from the left carb, and while cranking it.

1) you SHOULD replace the float needle.. its gonna run like a pain in the a$$ if you don't.  You might get it to run, but it will probably flood the engine and your plug won't fire thus your bike will die.  I would replace it.

2) size doesn't matter (thats what She said)  as long as the size fits the drain of the float bowl.  I got mine from Canadian Tire... so for you I'd imagine something like an autoparts store.  To get an idea, the tube that fit for me is smaller than the regular fuel line hose.  You're not worrying about gas flow, you're just checking the height.  the clear tube  method page might have a size tho, if you really need it.

3) use the clear tube method.  Its the most reliable.  I've set mine with vernere calipers before and it's hit and miss.

4) a non sealing float needle.  Questions #1 and #4 are the same thing.  Sounds like your float needle isn't sealing causing the overflow into the airbox.

good luck.  I'm right here with you. I'm at this same spot.  Just waiting for my needle.

Thanks for the reply. My main problem is with your answer to question 4. The carb that is over flowing is the carb with the NON-DAMAGED float needle. The carb that the damaged float needle is in is not the one leaking!

Thanks,

Nick

Hi, gunslinger.  Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble.  Your overflowing carb has a needle and seat and/or float problem.  The float, needle, and seat work together to keep your bowl full of gas, but not overfilled and leaking into the airbox.  When the needle and seat are stuck closed, no gas gets into the bowl.  You have the opposite problem.  Since you cleaned it more than once, dirt is probably not holding the valve open.  The float will hold the valve open if it's adjusted wrong or if it has a hole in it. (sunk float)

Checking float height is a snap.  You put the clear tube on the drain, open the drain, hold the tube end above the bowl and see that gas fills the tube to the same level as the bowl gasket or slightly lower.  If it's above the gasket it will overflow.  If it's too low, the cylinder will starve for fuel.  Slightly below the gasket level is OK.  Too high is never OK.

The reason it only overflows when it's on prime is because the prime setting by-passes the vacuum operated fuel valve.  When you have it set to ON the valve closes and doesn't allow fuel from the tank into the carbs until you crank the bike and vacuum develops, opening the fuel valve.  Good luck my friend!

Bill, thank you for that explanation.  Sometimes looking at things doesn't show how they work!  I appreciate you input.  So this makes me think I still do not have the floats set correctly since I'm about 99.99% sure the carbs are clean as I've cleaned them 3-4 times and they weren't dirty in the first place.  I will try and source a clear hose for checking the float heights.  Any suggestions on what size or where to look?  My auto parts store didn't have anything clear small enough to seal on the float bowl drains.

Again thanks for everyones help, its slowly making sense and it really isn't as scary to tear apart.  Its just a pain to get it right lol.

Nick

Nick, I got the clear tube that I use from a super cheapo squeeze bulb siphon I found at the dollar store.  I don't know the exact size, but it's about 1/4 inch.  It's the same stuff used for fish tank filters.  Any pet store would have it, or even WalMart.  All it has to do is go on the drain.  If you find a tube and it's too big, just wrap some tape around the drain to make-up the difference.

Great, I will check wal-mart for hoses or bulb siphon hopefully tonight.  Maybe make a few calls before I go to auto parts stores.

Quote from: utgunslinger13 on May 18, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
Thanks for the reply. My main problem is with your answer to question 4. The carb that is over flowing is the carb with the NON-DAMAGED float needle. The carb that the damaged float needle is in is not the one leaking!

Thanks,

Nick

wooops sorry!  didn't put that together.

but yes, what Bill said I would have said if I read your post properly.   

L.

lol I figured as much I just wanted to make sure anyone else reading it new it was the non damaged one that was leaking in case that changed any suggestions.  I picked up about 6 feet of clear tubing from PetSmart in the aquarium section but didn't have a chance to check out the bike.  I ran 5 miles in 45 minutes today and am a little tired so I'll look at the levels tomorrow.

Nick

Nick, I know you're on a tight budget now but this is why mechanics attack problems like this by rebuilding the offending assembly.  Yeah, it costs more, but it cuts down drastically on re-fixing.  In your case, when you put in new needles, seats, and floats, the adjustment is close to begin with, or right on, and it assures proper operation, as long as you put it together right! 

So I picked up some hose last night and got around to checking float heights according to the wiki.  When I hooked up the hose to the carb that is leaking into the airbox and turned it to prime the fuel rose to the level of the upper T and stopped.  Obviously, something isn't right.  According to what I've read and been told I think these are my options:
1.) float isn't floating which would mean the the float needle won't shut the flow of fuel off into the carbs
2.) Float needle isn't sealing, again not stopping the fuel into the carbs.
3.) Float valve assembly is leaking, again causing fuel to pour out of carbs.
4.) If all the above are still correct, my floats are set so horribly that its not causing the float needle to seal.

The right carb, which has a little seepage around the float bowl but nothing bad, looks like this:



Sorry I didn't realize how small the writing and lines was.  The red line is the gasket to the float bowl, and the black line is where the fuel stopped.  still seems to high right?

Thanks,

Nick

yeah still a bit high... that 1/4" or so can make a big diff in performance.

Can anyone post better pictures and instructions on setting the floats.  I swear I've done it 10 times now and doesn't seem to make a difference!?  maybe I'm not doing it right?!

ok, well I went out and redid the float heights, and I'm about 99% sure they are set right.  However, using the clear tube method, the left carb is still leaking.  I did notice that it would get to the level it SHOULD stop at, pause for a minute, then bit by bit it would creep up till it leaked out of the carbs.  I made sure the floats floated, and I blew through the valve assemble with the float needle held in and no air came out.  Would this be the symptoms of the valve assembly o-ring leaking?

Thanks,

Nick

QuoteWould this be the symptoms of the valve assembly o-ring leaking?

Yes.

where would I be able to get a new o ring for this?