yeah that gets lost in the Bickering haven't ya noticed Jserio. No one has seemed to argue that point LOL! Just the fact I think it is broken.

Preventative medicine is where we need to focus. We need to treat the disease not the symptoms! One half of my medications are for my diseases the other half is to combat the side-effects of those drugs. The prednisone helped my Chron's but I damned near lost my mind so what's worse? Stomach pain, diarrhea, and sane or no stomach pain, diarrhea and have no idea where I am?

So, what is the answer gents?

Mary

that mary is a hell of a hard quesation one would have to ask themselves. and TG i dont want to be Forced TO have to chose the govt option ( that IS in the current bill as it sits, nor do i want a rationing body either. again that IS within current bill, not an email forward. i put little faith in email forwards. UNLESS i can verify it from multiple sources, im still in the process of reading this bill. TBH would not mind a govt option. BUT would like a private option as well. only way for that to happen as is, is to have private coverage BEFORE the govt plan goes online, after which if you do NOT have a private policy, you hav no choice. read it TG youll see my concern. ( as well as the aforementioned clauses) BOTH sides need to work together. neither side appears to be doing so, or nowhere near enough. a fair compromise can be had if BOTH sides work together. ( rarely happens  in DC politics, or even local ) when one side has the power, they WILL get what they want. ( the recent omnibus bill for example. much of whihc was not needed.) both sides have porked up bills. both sides on many occasions , have done so massively on many occasions. if they as well as the current president, whomever he or she might be, ran this country like a private enterprise regardign handling money, wed be nowhere near in as much trouble as we are NOW, TG i know you know this, you, like myself have een around a few years. youve followed things, seen things happen, and more than likely thought, " shaZam! that couold have been handled better if only THIS happened" hell this country needs work, in all parts of its running. not JUST healthcare only. if we need govt run healthcare, why not food, housing, as well as transportation. the USA needs work, in some cases badly. i hope we can do something before it goes beyond repaIR



Aaron

Yama,

I have ONE (1) choice of insurance at my employer.  I take it or I don't have any.  How much "choice" is there really?  Once in, I must stay "in-network" or face exorbitantly large co-pays.  I guarantee you hey "ration" care as well.  How do you think they make profits?  Ever heard of the lifetime maximum they'll pay?  It's in my private plan.  If you ever have a long-term illnes or disability you'll become VERY familiar with the lifetime maximum.

It's not a Cadillac, but it IS insurance, to help the approx. 45 MILLION Americans with none.

Republicans have no alternative to insure these 45 million people.  They are not proposing changes -- they're proposing sticking our head in the sand for another 15 years (that's how long ago reform got shot down by the GOP last time).

Which looks better?  Insurance or none?  Insurance now or waiting another 15 years?

Quote from: jserio on July 31, 2009, 08:08:39 PM
i think Mary made a good point, more preventative actions in regards to our health would actually be cheaper in the long run i think. and we'd be healthier as a nation i'd imagine. 

This is why universal health care results in lower costs overall, lower infant mortality, and higher life expectancy.  It ain't rocket science.

Sorry TG but you have insurance choices outside of your employer, under my divorce agreement I am required to m aintain insurance on my son when I last switched jobs I paid for health insurance for him from a BCBS broker, it was actually pretty good insurance and was not unreasonable. You do have insurance choices beyond what your employer offers.

Besides what are you tards posting in this thread for the presidential election was over like 10 months ago.

tg its been rumored that the 45 MILLION  os covering illegal aliens, as well as those who chose NOT to carry insurance. i hear the 45 mil number from the left on a regular basis. and there are solutions from the non liberal side as well. that aside, there ARE too many without.
myself included. if i were FORCED to have to take the govt. option ( a clause within bill), id rather a
medical professional decide what is covered, NOT any type of beaurocrat. (again within bill).  you might read my reply and think " f%$king" right winger. but no i am not. i always have voted for whomever i thought would do best. REGARDLESS of party or if liberal or not. and i read of medicare/medicaid cutbacks as well, soo much crap in this bill. have ANY  politicians ever heard of the KISS principle?

Quote from: bettingpython on August 01, 2009, 11:36:36 AM
Sorry TG but you have insurance choices outside of your employer, under my divorce agreement I am required to m aintain insurance on my son when I last switched jobs I paid for health insurance for him from a BCBS broker, it was actually pretty good insurance and was not unreasonable. You do have insurance choices beyond what your employer offers.

Besides what are you tards posting in this thread for the presidential election was over like 10 months ago.

You are right BP, I also paid for BCBS for my son because he was in TX and I was in OK, and my employer health care would not cover him (out-of-netwrok and all that).  I should qualify that what is paid for me by my employer gives me one choice.

And yes we are tards....tards too lazy to start a new thread!

tg i wonder if o can find an accurate number of the uninsured, i know ANY uninsured, to me is unacceptable. BOTH  sides need to work together. both sides are unwilling to do so. and yes TG we are all lazy tards, lmao, wed really be lazy if we stuck this argument in a gear or porno thread

Doctors have choices now not as much as one might think. They have to follow the insurance's formulary before anything is covered. Take another example from me this week. Because of the prednisone I now have steriod induced mood disorder. When it was really bad my doc put me on Abilify and it stabilized me a few months ago I had to do another round of steriods. Well, I now have Well Care and although me and the doctor both know that Abilify works for combating the steriod issues I had to go through five other drugs before they would approve the one medication that would work. One of those drugs included an SSRI which my doc knew I could not handle because it does opposite of intended and even though she wrote telling them that they assured them she was wrong and would not cover it. So, I HAD to try this drug and yup had disasterous outcome. Finally, four months into my doctor writing letter after letter and me becoming a gunea pig for nothing they approved the medication. I mean seriously if a doctor writes for something why does the insurance have to approve it they didn't see me in the office.

Still fighting the pre-authorization for the ambulance ride!

Mary

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on August 01, 2009, 09:02:50 PM
tg i wonder if o can find an accurate number of the uninsured, i know ANY uninsured, to me is unacceptable. BOTH  sides need to work together. both sides are unwilling to do so. and yes TG we are all lazy tards, lmao, wed really be lazy if we stuck this argument in a gear or porno thread

I found a statistic (Robert Wood Johnson foundation) saying 11 million of the uninsured are immigrants (many legal).  45 million total, so even if you exclude all immigrants, there are still 34 million.

FWIW, my friends living in Germany were treated (even hospitalized) at NO cost to them.  Not even copay.  They were living there, so they were treated.  They did not care if they were citizens or not.  In marked contrast to the profit-based healthcare in the USA, the hospital wanted the wife to stay there longer when they could not find a cause for her vertigo. 

I also have a close college friend in Calgary, Alberta (Canada).  His wife had to have specialist care for an inherited (and rare) blood disease.  She got quick referrals, and great care.  All at no out of pocket cost.

My niece (an MD) did a year of residency in England because she wanted to see a socialized system at work.  Overall she was very impressed.  People get routine care, preventive treatment, and are healthier as a result.

Most of the propaganda you hear about the Horrors of socialized medicine is hogwash.

TG i cannot get data from any source. that i can trust. all are biased from one side or the other, and the actual number is unknown, and i fear will never be known. but still 1 is one too many. id rather. have private coverage. aka make it affordable, maybe remove the PEC ( pre existing condition ) clause, BUT i dont like hte wording that FORCES those to take the govt option. and are taxed if they do not. ( wihtin current bill) tg youve got a copy of it im sure, way youre talking, im sure youve read it, and it will never be free. , its not in any country, paid for via taxes, cause the government does NOT make money. htey will accept/take it, but they do nothing to make it. we the people/taxpayer pay for govt services. hell sometimes i htink in this country we ( govt) wastes more money than most other countries. that concerns me. that and no one knows how much it will cost either. ( i hear/read) talking points from both sides, regarding this. only things i trust tbh regarding this is hte articles from WHO ( world health organisation) as well as CBO ( congressional budget office), and i dont trust completely. to trust ones govt completely, is quite NAIVE, tg we wont agree on many issues. but you seem to be fairly open minded on political matters, that i do respect. i cannot really stand close minded people on things like this. ( from ANY side/party) im haVING TO SELF PAY MY WAY INTO THE DOCTOR MID SEPTTEMBER. AT 250 and im broke as hell too lol ( sorry caps lol), ive got drug coverage. but no med. cause medicaid wont cover me, hell i hope someone fixes it, cause im wearing myself out working what/when i can to pay for this. hell selling everythign i own , but ill make it  , lord knows i will. i hope this country does too. that im praying for, EVERY day

Quote from: trumpetguy on July 31, 2009, 07:58:31 PM

Quote from: bill14224 on July 30, 2009, 08:56:52 AM
I love the fact we've finally elected a black president.  I hate the fact he's a Marxist.

And with that statement your credibility just went out the window.  Obama is a centrist Democrat.  He pisses me off because he acts so conservative.  He kept Bush's Defense Secretary.  He continued Bush's policy of protecting dumbass business leaders from their own disastrous policies.  To call him "marxist" is to reveal your own lack of understanding of both Obama AND Marxism.

This medical bill does not socialize medicine.  It doesn't affect you if you have insurance.  Even if sixty GOP email forwards say it does.

Our medical system is fine IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE OR LOTS OF MONEY.  It sucks if you don't.  Our system doesn't revolve around caring for sick people, it revolves around money. PERIOD.  We have some great facilities, no doubt.  Why are they not treating sick Americans who need their help?

Infant mortality has to do with prenatal care and birthing and little else.  Healthier lifestyles are going to make some difference, but there's not that much difference between American?Canadian/British lifestyles.  Lack of adequate routine care also affects life expectancy statistics.

I understand Marxism, and I know it when I see it.  For the first time in American history we have government owned banks, insurance companies, and auto manufacturers.  Socialized medicine and extreme energy taxes are next.  Cap-and-Trade is meeting stiff opposition from both parties, as is the health care bill.  These are not centrist bills.  If they were, they'd sail through.  You will see in time that Obama is a Marxist ideologue once you learn who Bill Ayers and Saul Alinsky are, and the nature of the Chicago political machine.  To call any product of the Chicago machine a centrist based on a few early moves in his presidency is being painfully naive.  Look at all the czars he's appointing.  This is a republic.  We're not supposed to have czars.  Plenty of socialism in the Republican party as well.  I don't like either.  You seem to be quite a fan of the Democrats, which makes me wonder about your grasp of the situation this nation is in.

Centrism as you call it, which is actually creeping socialism, is bankrupting this nation.  Both parties have been doing it for longer than we've been around.  We are now at the point where foreign governments, mainly China, are getting uneasy about continuing to buy our debt.  They know it's time for us to stop overspending, but the Democrats certainly don't care about that, do they?  Doesn't look very centrist to me.
If the health care bill passes, private options will dry-up as the government plan will be much cheaper at first until employers drop private health insurance when faced with paying rising surcharges to keep it.  That will force the rest of us onto the public system.  Then the cost of the public system will skyrocket along with taxes and rationing will ensue.  The federal government will be the main player providing health care, but will also set all the rules.  That's like having a team's coach also head of the referees.  No conflict of interest there, noo.  Your life will literally be in the hands of a board of unelected government bureaucrats. No, thank you.  You'll have to kill me to get me to go along with that.

This has already been done in the UK and Canada and it failed.  You get high taxes which increases the cost of everything, including energy, and a health care system that can't respond to demand so it rations care.
Germany and France chided Obama over the $787 billion porkulus bill.  Perhaps you missed it.  They warned him that he's doing what they have already done and it failed.  Those governments are trying to move more toward private enterprise to stimulate their chronically slow economies.  Doesn't sound like a centrist to me.

So much misinformation about these and many other subjects out there.  Be careful who you listen to.  Big government hurts the public.  It's a fact, and both parties have been pushing big government in one way or another for too, too long.  It's hard to see the opportunities that aren't there because our government spends too much and punishes achievement.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and it sure is getting hot.

LMAO weve got more czars than " pre- communist russia"

it doesn't matter what us "common" folk think or say. the government is going to do whatever they want, whenever they want. only way to seriously change that would be by force.

Quote from: jserio on August 05, 2009, 09:08:42 PM
it doesn't matter what us "common" folk think or say. the government is going to do whatever they want, whenever they want. only way to seriously change that would be by force.

Unfortunately i have to agree as well, and it scares me ALOT, the govt gets who htey want. and such WHEN they want it. and get what they want. i HONESTLY hope like hell im wrong in thinking this way. but no one can prove this wrong it seems. they can try. ( honestly hope the DO prove my thoughts wrong. ) yet i will still vote. whether it means anythign or not. i will still vote 

Haven't read the last few pages, so sorry...I'll have to catch up, but...

Like I said I'd do when people start to realize they messed up by voting him in.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!  Cause that's pretty much all I can do right now.


I hope everyone is still in work, and living well.  It's highly unfortunate times that our new leader is dragging us down into this recession.  It will only continue until he and his puppet masters are gone.

Quik i am also agreeing here. BUT i do hope you are wrong. sinceerely. as i think you hope as well he does not do this

Oh, of course I hope I'm wrong.  I hope he turns out to be a great president, and does wonders for the country.  However, everything he's done has only dramatically transformed it more and more into a socialistic society.  We have the biggest deficit EVER, and spending upon spending, and the biggest debt EVER.  He and the rest of the libs don't care what the people say.  It's all just manipulating the public so that we give them more and more power...whether we like it or not.

I wish there were some place that sane people could move to, to get away from the craziness of this world.

Since the original poll is a little dated, I figured I'd set up a new one, while not creating another thread, since this one still pertains.

Please vote whether you regret voting for Obama; yes, no, or I didn't vote for him...on the first page of this thread.

Hopefully ill be around for the next election