That sucks.   RIP rider.

Quote from: Affschnozel on July 30, 2009, 02:58:05 AM
The woman was 40 years old ,worked as a psychologist , she was very cautious experienced rider according to her family and friends , there were 5 people in the car with minor injuries , how the accident occured is yet unknown ,some speculate that either the driver or rider were blinded by the sun at that time on the road  

I've hesitated to respond to this thread because it reminds me of my own mortality.  No matter how safe we try to be I think we've all had those close calls and done some dumb things on our bikes where we later said to ourselves "man, that was a stupid risk."  At least we were lucky enough to be able to reflect on our mistakes.  My condolences to the family and my best wishes to those still among us.

-Jessie

Regrettably I have to update with another fatality, GS rider collided with a firetruck which presumably went through red light , RIP 

Okay, that is bad ! Gotta ask a question. Here in the U.S there was a study done about us EMTs blasting through traffic and red lights. What it did find was that it only shaved off 2.5 to 3 minutes on a call or transport. They considered that to be too high a risk for more injuries or fatalities. Here in Florida they don't want you speeding or running lights. They equipped all of our units with light changing devices (wish I had one for Flick). Now we do run lights and sirens and if we come to an intersection that is not equipped with the reader then we may proceed after 5 seconds of the clearing of the intersection. So, to the question do EMS vehicles blow through red lights there?

This has changed my regard for speeding and changing lanes because if a massive MAV with lights and sirens can only shave off a couple of minutes of drive time I'm not gonna save any and maybe decrease my chances of becoming a statistic.

Rip rider!

Mary

Emergency vehicles may proceed ( with lights and sirens ) through red light with caution after insuring that all vehicles

noticed and stopped , if any accident occurs the blame is mainly on the driver of the emergency vehicle

if I remember correctly from my own EMS training .

It seems to me rider noticed too late , locked brakes and slid under  

You can see here the markings of the PO:

RIP.



To Mary's point - I recall hearing about several road rage/reckless driving studies that were done a few years ago.  If I recall correctly, people who stayed calm and stayed in one lane usually wound up getting to their destinations minutes ahead of the others (I heard about this on a show about hypermiling).  Also, people seemed to have better attitudes throughout the rest of the day when they didn't have road rage (go figure  ).

It never ceases to amaze me how little people care when an ambulance or fire truck is coming down the road as well. The second I hear it I start to pull over and stop, or if I'm on a bicycle I'll just completely get off the road and hop up on the sidewalk, but 95% of people just keep on driving until the vehicle is behind them and honking, especially at redlights. How do people assume that their own time is so valuable that they'll get out of a fire trucks way when they're good and ready?? That has to account for a lot of the intersection incidents(not saying that's what happened here) but I guaruntee you I wouldn't be going through an intersection if I heard a siren coming and wasn't able to tell where from, but most people assume if they can't see it, it's not their problem.

and yeah, people with road rage rarely make it anywhere faster. I deal with it constantly since I just bicycle back and forth to work downtown. People get so annoyed that in in the lane they want, they'll fly past me within inches of my elbow and speed down the road. 80% of the time I blow right past them at the next redlight, and they're stuck in traffic being just as slow and frustraited. When I'm in a car I never drive aggressively, and it may take me a minute or two longer to get where I'm going, but I at least know my chances of hurting/hitting someone are slim compaired to the rest of the general public.

Say you're a lane splitter or Constant Lane Weaver. Not in stopped traffic but in traffic that is actually moving at various speeds. One click ahead is out of sight, right? BUT, how long does it take go a click? That's the time you saved.

At 100 kph that's around 30 seconds. Pull up on the side of the road or at a gas station and those people you passed way back there who were so far back you couldn't see them, will be passed you in a little over 30 seconds.

Wanna get there sooner? Leave earlier 

I recall sitting way back in line in stopped traffic waiting for the lights to change. I knew these traffic signals. We'd sit through two changes before we were close enough to get through. The lights changed. Obviously the cars way way up front weren't moving away fast enough for the woman next to me. She started gesturing her hands at them to get a move on. Later in the same day, while sitting in the parking lot the road had become, I heard a noise, like someone yelling. Looking around saw no-one on the sidewalk having issues with someone else and all looked normal. Again the noise a minute or so later. Again, nothing to see. A few more times this yelling and always nothing to see. Until, right next to me the guy screams out "F*#K" and then slaps the side of his car - obvious completely and utterly frustrated and fuming at the traffic jam - and I watched him repeat this as his lane crept forward.

These two incidents made me realize, road frustration annoyance anger and rage stem from one simple thing... you not being Allowed to do what you want to do by circumstances beyond your control. Accepting this provides calm - why get upset at things you cannot control, right? It won't change the outcome.

Guy in front won't get out your way. Don't give him your Energy. Getting hot and bothered and eventually roaring past will save you stuff all time anyway. Just chalk it up on your daily idiot tally board. Life's too precious to spend time in high risk actions for little/no benefit.

Michael

I used to pull over on the side of the road and stop when ems/fire were passing but now I just slow down and make sure I'm not in their way.

I talked to an ambulance driver and he said he hated it when everyone would just stop because sometimes they would block him from going where he was trying to go.

According to the guy I talked to he prefers that everyone just clears a lane so he can get by but not necessarily stop, especially near intersections.

Quote from: dohabee on August 27, 2009, 06:47:54 PM
I used to pull over on the side of the road and stop when ems/fire were passing but now I just slow down and make sure I'm not in their way.

I talked to an ambulance driver and he said he hated it when everyone would just stop because sometimes they would block him from going where he was trying to go.

According to the guy I talked to he prefers that everyone just clears a lane so he can get by but not necessarily stop, especially near intersections.

That's great that the moving cars aren't blocking him from getting into the driveway...too bad when he tries to turn his ambulance into that "clear" driveway he has to get broadsided by the moving cars that are in his blind spot.  Your friend isn't correct.

It's easy
1. emergency vehicle drives in left lane.  
2. cars pull right and stop.  

That's how it's done...period.  If a car is blocking a driveway a little chirp of the siren or blip of the horn will get them to move.  

It bothers me that your friend would tell you this.  He knows what he should be doing.  He is putting both his ambulance and the general public in danger by making up his own rules.  

I think that's why he said to slow down but not stop, that way you aren't going so fast that you broadside anybody but you also don't end up blocking anything.

I could see the danger of moving over without slowing down but I don't think there is any danger if you are moving a lot slower than the ambulance.

I'm not trying to start a fight about it, that's just the only thing I have been told by an actual ambulance driver.

Unless you are also an emt, in which case I now have conflicting information and will have to flip a coin to decide what to do each time.

I am a career firefighter.  I am a paramedic.  I am licensed to operate emergency vehicles both by my department and the state.  I operate these vehicles safely and professionally daily.  I have done this in a heavily populated urban setting for 10+ years.  I have responded to a few thousand (no exaggeration) emergency calls while operating with lights and sirens.  I stay current and have read the studies, including the one mary mentioned.  I have a perfect safety record.  I know what I'm talking about.  

Having said that, when an emergency vehicle coming from the left traffic lane makes a right into a driveway it has to cross the right lane to get there.  Thru the entire turn the right lane traffic is completely in the blind spot of the emergency vehicle.  They cannot see if the traffic acknowledges the turn, or if the traffic has stopped to allow them to cross.  It is a common problem.  People don't realize the emergency vehicle is turning across their lane until it's too late.  Your buddy's advice puts me, him, my crew, and other drivers in danger.  

Your buddy is wrong.  If he's counting on people to acknowledge his turn every time, he'll soon find out how wrong he is.  

Flip that coin...

hmm.. you make a valid point sir.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter or magazine.

Sorry if I came off as a know it all (or worse).  It's kind of my pet peeve. 

I know the problem in Central Florida it seems as if people seriously don't know what to do. Some people go left some right it is a complete Cluster Fluc that you can't get through. On the speeding part while I was volunteering with Polk County EMS I rode with this one EMT that had a serious lead foot. In the middle of a call I had to make my way up front because he was driving so fast that when he would take a turn I'd fly across the rig once I banged my head. At the end of that shift I was like thank God I survived that shift. To my suprise the next day the same EMT was driving the same area I had yelled at him about but that day it had rained. He took the turn and rolled the rig. He was killed the partner and the patient had to be Life Flighted out. What a wake up call.

I stopped driving the rig after my AICD implant because if my device fired while driving and I hurt my partner or a patient. I don't think I could live with myself. So, for another three years I just stayed in the back most other EMTs respected my choice others well just driving a rig is not as fun as working on patients!

But yeah as soon as red lights and sirens are seen or heard you are supposed to get over to the far right and stop especially at an intersection that way if the rig has to turn right he doesn't have to worry about you slowly coming out. If  see you not yielding to an emergency vehicle you can be ticketed!

Mary

I've never driven and ambulance or firetruck(and never will as I'm not an EMT or firefighter), so I can't say what's easiest for them, but in reference to people moving over and slowing down and not being a threat.... that makes no sense at all. Even if they stay out of the ambulances way, they're still going to hurt somebody else. Even if you're moving slow and in the right lane, how are you supposed to watch the traffic infront of you, and the fire truck at the same time to know if he wants to be where you're at? A little easier if the truck is coming from infront of you, but impossible to watch infront of you and behind you at the same time. You can slow down and think you're doing enough for the firetruck, but when you rear end someone in front of you, scrape the side of a parked car, or run over someone on a bicycle because you're now pulled to the right and going 10mph in the bike lane, which you consider slow, but someone standing on the road without a steel cage around them just considers painful, especially if you're one of the people driving around in a navagator/excursion because it makes YOU feel safer.