My otherwise nice 1989 GS500e has an output shaft with badly worn teeth.  I would like to fix it myself if possible.  I am a reasonably capable mechanic however I don't have any specialized motorcycle tools.  My basic question is:

Is it reasonable to expect (as a shade tree mechanic) to be able to do a basic swap out of the output shaft with a new or non worn used one?

I'm not interested in spending more than about $300 on this project.  I know how it is when you tear into something, you always find this or that that needs to be replaced while your in there.  But the bike only has 14,000 mile on it and is in otherwise great shape.

Any pitfalls to watch out for?  Good place to find a used output shaft?  Any specialized tools needed for this?

Other Option:  I'm in Salem Oregon.  Is there anyone of you close enough to do the work for around $300 I can do some of the work if necessary (pull the motor etc..)

Thanks,
Dave.

Hi there,
Well, I hate to tell you, but that is a big and significant job to undertake, especially if you are a beginner.
Removing the engine is not horrible, but it's not simple, either. It's not supposed to be simple. It's a significant job to undertake.
That being said, you then have to flip the engine over and split the main crankcases to gain access to the input shaft.
Of course, you have to remove the engine side covers, perhaps the rotor at the end of the crank, the clutch basket (maybe, for better access), and possibly other parts to get the input shaft out. Some tools you will have to create to get things apart properly.
You should not have to deal with the crank or cam chain or piston rods or any of that. You should carefully inspect other parts for wear and check clearances where you can against the specs in the bike's service manual.
But then what you'd have is an engine with a replacement input shaft and now you have to realign all the locating dowel pins, carefully clean the case surfaces, put down Suzukibond case  sealant in the proper spots to prevent oil leaks (while not using too much of course, so it doesn't ooze into the engine and cause oil passage blockage problems) then retorque all the case bolts to the proper torques.
The of course reinstall the engine, do a complete tune up since you're there, and hope everything goes well.
I'm not saying not to do it.
I'm saying that there's a lot involved. You described yourself as a shadetree mechanic and I'm just saying it's not like just adjusting your valves and adjusting the chain, etc.
It's a major engine project.
Does it sound like you are up to this?
And why do you have the $300 repair ceiling? I'm not sure that's realistic, even if you pull the engine and take it to the shop for the work.
All just things to think about.
Let us know what you decide, bub.
Best wishes,
Trwhouse

Agreed.....its a major undertaking but its not impossible. The level of diffculty is relative and depends on the persons ability and resources, as such no one in here can say if you can or cant do it.
I suggest you obtain a copy of a service manual, Haynes or Clymer, read up on the procedure and make the call yourself.


You will find one here......along with one or two others, just click `free manuals` on the left 

http://www.carlsalter.com/motorcycle-manuals.asp

Wow that was a quick reply!  Thanks.

As far as being up to the task.  I'd say probably.  I have rebuilt  a few car motors before (VW bug and Honda accord, Chevy Suburban)  So I'm familiar with that kind of work.  No expert by any means, I depended heavily on the machinists to measure wear and recommend replacement parts.  But I am capable of disassembly and reassembly. My main concern was that there might be some "special trick" or Tool needed for this job. 

As far as my $300 limit.  That's just a number I came up with.  I just don't want to dump more money into the bike than I could recoup if I decide to sell it this year.   (I only paid $1400 for it originally)  I have been thinking about selling it in the spring and move up to a bigger bike.   I could go a little higher I guess.  But at some point you have to ask yourself: Is it worth it?

The bike is ridable now.  It does have some noticeable slack even when the chain is adjusted properly.  I noticed the worn shaft  when I replaced the sprockets and chain this last summer.  It might last quite a long time as is or it might not.  I just don't know.





Dave.

If you go with all new parts there are bearings and gears that need pulling/pressing off the shaft which can be a problem if you dont have the kit.  Probably best to source a matched pair of clusters from a breaker. If the shaft is still sevicable clean it off, slap some heavy grease all over the splines which will help reduce anymore wear and keep an eye on it. Worry about it if it starts getting worse.  Those shafts are case hardened and a slight amount of wear is acceptable, its once you break into the softer inner metal the problems start.

Hi again, Dave,
Another thing to consider ...
Since the countershaft sprocket for the chain is only held on by a circlip, it's possible that you just think it's loose on the shaft.
There is actually a noticeable amount of play between the countershaft sprocket and the shaft (you call it the input shaft like on a car, but on a motorcycle it is called a countershaft).
Anyway, what I am thinking is that it only has 14K miles on it. So maybe you are seeing normal play that you only think is excessive wear?
What about taking some photos and letting us all take a peek?
Somehow, I would be surprised if the shaft was truly that damaged at that mileage, although it is POSSIBLE.

Best wishes,
Trwhouse

You can sometimes find complete engines in the for sale section for $300-500. Just as easy to swap, rather than repair.

Quote from: dcoffey48 on November 29, 2009, 11:07:34 AM

As far as my $300 limit.  That's just a number I came up with.  I just don't want to dump more money into the bike than I could recoup if I decide to sell it this year.   (I only paid $1400 for it originally)  I have been thinking about selling it in the spring and move up to a bigger bike.   I could go a little higher I guess.  But at some point you have to ask yourself: Is it worth it?

Dave.

What does what you paid for it have anything to do with it ... agreed your current outlay of $ would be relevant ...

You see that motor seizing (rough example) ... that makes a crunk crunk noise right ... that is the sound of several benjamin bills flying out of your bike, several ... many many ...

Current seized motor bike is worth say 400. Again just a number.
Say your repair outlay is 300 (always add in atleast 50% to that) ... so 450.

Your choices are sell it for 400 now. Or put in the 300+50% ? repair cost and sell it for over the 850 it now cost you.

You breaking even after a catastrophic failure is not a given ... I have lots of people that want out of somehting what they put in ... A virago with 53K miles and a busted cam chain on the rear cyl along wiht bent valves ... apparently they put some 400 bucks in a carb rebuild just a week before the chain broke and bent sheite ... and that was just ~6 years ago. Yea its been sitting under a tree in front of their trailer since then. Forks got rust ... and leak, bad. Yea its totally worth 900 bucks. Sure.

My truck too, I want 18 grand out of it, cos that's what I put in ... oh wait, I spent atleast 2G on new tires, then 3 sets of ball joints, a U joint and a PCV valve sensor thingy ... oh wait ... I must have changed the oil what ... 3-4 times ... so yea I want 25K for it.

OK 210K miles 97 ford F150 4.6 V8 ... yea 25 g's ... I mean I did spend 18K on it in 98 so yea I want out of it what I have put in it.

Anyway motors are ... well impossible to find ...

Countershaft - I have a couple, one I am actually gonna toss with the cases cos I am too lazy to pull it.

You may be able to swap it yourself, but well I wont bother, sell it as is.

Blown motor isn't like a broken indicator bulb. The indicator bulb usually will cost you the cost of the bulb @ resale. Say its $2, you can sell it for market value minus 2, cos anyone can change that ... the bigger the problem, the larger the hit you would take in addition to the cost of repair. Motor rebuild ... you're immediately limiting yourself to people that are capable of that work. A $300 motor even if available will cost you 5-800 hit @ sale cos a lot of work is involved in a swap/rebuild.

Cool.
Buddha.

Yo Buddha,
Are you sure your answer here is meant for this thread, man?

It seems like your answer is for the other fellow who was hearing "rocks" in his engine, which he has since dismantled and found to be trash:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50893.0

This fellow here is talking about a possibly bad countershaft, not a "seized engine."

I think you need to get more sleep, bub.

Best wishes,

Trwhouse

Just an example. ... more examples follow ...

Talking about wanting to get out of it what they have in it ... any such talk ... usually if the guy is in front of me, I'd encourage it, even suggest he needs to make a profit for his troubles.

One idiot I know got a katana amd apparently put a pipe and other stuff on it, and he said it was 3300 when he was done. He then hit a truck and bent up the front end, and smashed guages etc. He then wanted to sell it for 3300 cos that's what he had in it. I encouraged him to sell it for 5K. Then I encouraged after a few months of it not selling, to part it out. I suggested the motor is worth 2500 easy, carbs 500 ...
After 3 months of it not selling, I suggested he should buy forks and put it together, and I told him I'll sell him 750 ones - much better than his for 500 ...

I also love Idiots who want the "payoff" cos they dont want to pay $ to get rid of it ... cos that would be stupid. Of course they're paying for it every month, and that isn't stupid ...

Yea this idiot - http://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/1460577435.html

Text is here:
I am asking for the pay off on a 07 Kawasaki Ninja 650. It is a great bike and is in perfect condition. I know the payoff is around $8700. If you need more info please let me know.

Never mind that 08's new are not selling @ 4800 ...

Anyway, I did wander off, but the point it, before it blew up/countershaft died/crashed/burnt down/got +200K miles it was $XX,XXX. So you want $XX,XXX now ... right.

Cool.
Buddha.

Yo, did you see this 2006 engine on ebay starting at $300? 12 hours to go, in NY state.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-SUZUKI-GS500-MOTORCYCLE-ENGINE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cec468988QQitemZ330381560200QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories