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Bike build: air gas hybrid

Started by saxman, March 08, 2010, 11:48:02 PM

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saxman

I'm healing up nicely. Still have a big knot on my thigh, and my foot is quite swollen still. I'm starting to walk with less and less of a limp.
Think I avoided breaking my foot, although it wouldn't have shocked me.



Going to be doing most of the machining for the compress conversion in the next two weeks. Lots of pictures to follow.

saxman

#21
Spent a while this weekend working on getting the garage all set up so that I could have a good designated work area. Thanks to craigslist, a new workbench has found its way to the garage for the huge price of free. Got the extra motor up on the bench with the reed valve and carbs to start getting an idea exactly where things are going to go.





For the compressor design, reed valves are going to be used. They seem to fit perfectly on the exhaust side with how the polaris boot is designed. Almost like it was meant to be.


I will have to verify on the bike for frame clearance before machining the halve housings(probably next week over spring break).

On the intake side, the valve will be replacing one of the carbs. Should fit nicely, as it's about the same size as one of the carbs.


On the carb note, it looks like the left cylinder will be the one becoming the compressor, as the right carb has all the controls on it. The carbs are set up so the right one has the throttle hooked up to it, etc, and via levers and such, controls the left one. Makes it much easier to ditch the left carb than the right carb, and as the bike is pretty much symmetrical, there shouldn't be any other issues.


I still haven't decided if I'm going to even stay with a carb set up, but I'll certainly plan for the option there, as doing a fuel injection system would require the same work, left or right.

To finish off the compressor, I'll need to get rid of the stock valves.


I may be able to remove just the valve itself, and leave all of the springs and such in place. After taking the valve cover off the motor, the valve channels seem to be sealed up nice and tight, so it would make life really easy if the valve train would still operate with the valve itself removed.



In addition to this work, I installed new tires on the bike, along with new brake pads. Now just to rejet the carbs(parts are in the mail) and it'll be ready to ride to start getting some baseline fuel economy figures.

kml.krk

#22
in photo #3 on first page, it looks like the front fork is bent...

I hope that it's only light playing tricks on me!!
Yellow 2004: K&N Lunchbox, Leo Vince SBK, 2005 GSXR Turn Signals, 20/65/147.5, 15T front sprocket, Progressive Springs etc...

"Bikes get you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no bikes." - Phineas

saxman

Bent forks are just an illusion. Who knows how long they'll staying stock anyway

saxman

Bit of an update. Finished the valve housings today. Conversion of one of the cylinders to a pump is about 90% there.

since everyone loves pictures


How the design started




Milled from 4"x4"x3" 6061 billets


Almost finished product


saxman

Spent a while working on the bike project today. Got the new valve housings all bolted up, and the old valves removed.

I really need to do some cleaning to get all that built up gunk out of there. Any suggestions?






kml.krk

dude, I have no idea what you're doing but it looks cool as hell  :thumb:
I love the screens from Rhino 3D
Yellow 2004: K&N Lunchbox, Leo Vince SBK, 2005 GSXR Turn Signals, 20/65/147.5, 15T front sprocket, Progressive Springs etc...

"Bikes get you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no bikes." - Phineas

travisn

#27
in for results... my buddy just finished his senior design at RIT and his project was pretty lame. But he is working for Intel in a month so I guess its all right, I start in the fall for ME @ RIT...

saxman

Solved the issue with the stock valves today. Replaced the valves with a bolt with o-rings on each side and a lock nut to securely hold it in place. Should seal things off nicely. Managed to clean the combustion chamber up a bit too. Lots of carb cleaner and scrubbing with a wire brush. Tomorrow I'll torque everything down, get the cams properly aligned and the motor will be ready for testing.

Everything all cleaned up


Where the valves were that needs to be sealed.


Replacement for the valves to seal everything up


Valves all sealed up


jeremy_nash

is this going to be intercooled?  if not, seems it would have been simpler to have the compressed air on the carb side, to allow you to use a simple u-bend to connect the pressurized air to the carb
gsxr shock
katana FE
99 katana front rim swap
vapor gauge cluster
14 tooth sprocket
95 on an 89 frame
lunchbox
V&H ssr2 muffler
jetted carbs
150-70-17 pilot road rear
120-70-17 sportmax front
sv650 rear wheel
sv650 tail swap
gsxr pegs
GP shift

saxman

Quote from: jeremy_nash on May 02, 2010, 07:53:58 AM
is this going to be intercooled?  if not, seems it would have been simpler to have the compressed air on the carb side, to allow you to use a simple u-bend to connect the pressurized air to the carb

Intercooled... possibly. We'll see. It will, however, have an air tank between each cylinder. That said, I suppose it wouldn't make much difference which side was the exhaust. Ultimately, it'll come down to a packaging issue once I try to fit everything on the bike. It won't be that hard to swap sides if needed.

jeremy_nash

oh, I guess a chamber to allow the air pulses to stabilise would be a good idea. 

have you done any math to give you a theoretical power number?
gsxr shock
katana FE
99 katana front rim swap
vapor gauge cluster
14 tooth sprocket
95 on an 89 frame
lunchbox
V&H ssr2 muffler
jetted carbs
150-70-17 pilot road rear
120-70-17 sportmax front
sv650 rear wheel
sv650 tail swap
gsxr pegs
GP shift

saxman

Quote from: jeremy_nash on May 02, 2010, 11:39:29 AM
oh, I guess a chamber to allow the air pulses to stabilise would be a good idea. 

have you done any math to give you a theoretical power number?

The air chamber serves a couple purposes. One is certainly to stabilize the air pulses, but the main reasoning is to allow a certain amount of controls to occur. A pressure vessel can be regulated so that boost is available on demand and can be stored for more opportune times. Essentially it's the pressure vessel and corresponding controls that separate this from being an internally supercharged system to being an actual air gas hybrid.

I have not done much in the way of calculations of expected power output, however, there's a guy in France that has done something very similar to a ducati, at least as far as the compressor design goes, and sees about 20% more hp over stock, with a much fatter torque curve.

saxman

So this motor showed up not exactly working. Wasn't really given a reason other than it doesn't work and part was broken.

Was able to salvage enough for the testing I needed, so I'm ok there, but I seem to have found part of the reason it wouldn't run before. The intake valve on the side of the motor I'm not touching is horribly out of adjustment. The valve isn't completely shutting, so during the compression stroke, all of the air is being forced back out through the intake. I'll need to pick up some new valve shims and hopefully that'll fix that issue. Otherwise, I have the motor back together and making compression. Once I get the intake valve properly shimmed, the testing can begin.


The back left valve is the one sticking open.



Starting to look like a motor again.


plurpimpin

This is so freakin cool! Be sure to keep us posted

saxman

Will do.


Tonight's progress involved trying to get the untouched side of the motor to cooperate. Swapped in a smaller shim as I was having issues with the intake valve sealing on the side of the motor I didn't touch, and while that gave me appropriate clearance, it still wouldn't seal. I pulled the head off again, and ended up pulling the valves, swapping them for the valves I removed from the other side, lapped them, and bolted everything back together. Still isn't cooperate entirely, but got a much better seal. Also cnc'd an adapater flange that I'll be able to hook up a small air tank to for making comparison tests between air flows on both sides of the motor. No pictures today, as it pretty much looks the same as last time.

saxman

Time for a bit of theory. Ideal air flow through a reciprocating pump, in this case an engine, can be calculated based as m dot(mass air flow)=pDN/120 for a 4 stroke motor, where p is air density, D is displacement, and N is rpm. For a motor that intakes air with every rotation, instead of every other, this becomes mdot=pDN/60. Long story short, if it can be shown that the valves on the motor are opening twice as often on the compressor side as on the combustion side, the motor should flow twice as much air.

The motor was displayed yesterday to show proof of concept as an internal supercharger. For this demonstration, the starter motor was hooked up to a 12V battery and allowed to crank the motor over. Through observation, one can see that the valves are indeed operating as designed, with the compressor valves opening on every crank rotation and the untouched cylinder opening on every other. This is far from running, but shows proof of concept. The valve movement on the reed valves is a bit difficult to see, as not much air is flowing with just the starter going, but close observation makes it visible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-aw8V151_M

In addition, I picked up an 06 GSXR-600 front suspension today that will make its way onto the bike to update the antiquated brakes and suspension. One fork is a bit bent, so I'll pull them both and take them to either have that one straightened and the other one checked, or replace them with a straight set, but will work great at updating the front end.

Here's the front end I picked up:


saxman

Been starting to work on roughing out the fuel system for the bike. Torn between developing my own fuel injection using a microprocessor board I build and using something already out there like megasquirt. If I do megasquirt, I'll probably still have to build a small microprocessor board to do all the boost controls for me, although it may have some built in PID control options I can make work. We'll see.

Torn between making my own intake manifold/throttle bodies and just stealing something off a gsxr or an r6. Running boost, I'd like to be able to run a map sensor for better tuning, but doing this on an itb set up is a bit difficult. Perhaps I'll make a small intake plenum.

Also, fuel injection means I need a tank with a fuel pump in it. I can either take a stock tank and try to find room for a fuel tank, or more likely I'll make my own tank from scratch.

This weekend I'm going to try to finalize the design for the rear sets I'll be making so I can start churning them out. Should bring in some income to help fund the project. Going to try to get the fork straightened this weekend as well and see if the front wheel I have is salvageable. Next week I'll try to finalize what I'm going to do about the fuel injection and start on the design for the tank.


This is certainly turning into one hell of a frankenbike

O.C.D.

Yes, but one hell of a Frankenbike!  Originality counts more than anything and this is completely original.  Lucky you are to have the knowledge and tools to CNC parts.  Makes building a lot more fun I'll bet.

So, if the proof worked, you passed the class, right?  :thumb:
'92-'09 Suzati
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50448.0

Quote from: Ugluk on June 24, 2010, 09:48:08 AM
The mascot of the GS500.. The creature that's got the biggest ugliest a$$ of them all.
A wombat. It's got a big ugly a$$ too.

saxman

Quote from: O.C.D. on May 20, 2010, 07:21:43 AM
Yes, but one hell of a Frankenbike!  Originality counts more than anything and this is completely original.  Lucky you are to have the knowledge and tools to CNC parts.  Makes building a lot more fun I'll bet.

So, if the proof worked, you passed the class, right?  :thumb:

Proof worked, everyone was impressed, etc. Still have a final exam for the class tomorrow, but shouldn't be an issue.

Being able to cnc stuff certainly is nice. Also helps that I have a whole set up in my garage for vacuum infusing composite parts. The tank I make(and eventually any fairings/fenders/etc as I turn my focus towards the aesthetics) will all be carbon fiber and kevlar, as I have rolls of the stuff sitting here.

Big part of why I'm going to such great lengths is so that I can use this all on my resume and really show the skill set I posses.

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