I took my spark plugs out when I adjusted my valves. They looked real white, no brown. The bike is completely stock, is that lean look due to Ca. emission tuning? Do I need to try and make it richer. (17.000 miles) on the bike. What do you Guys think?

I don't want to sound like a meany but. . .
If your technically proficient enough to do a valve adjustment then whey the plug question?
Just woudering.
But yeah, your F bike is going to be very lean in its stock form. Suzuki was forced to do that by bloated elitists that control such things.

Here is some info on reading plugs>>>
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=53907.0

And here too>>> http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=10242.0

As for jetting advice, you came to the right place.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38094.0

A jetting matrix>>>http://beergarage.com/GSMatrix.aspx

And of course the GS500 Wiki>>>http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Rejetting

As for making it richer, that's simple, however the real question would be:
"Is running stock (lean to the point of a white plug) bad in any way for the engine".
I'm a comutter, not a mechanic so I too would be interested in some posts on your issue.
BTW: The crew here is great. I got my 2007 F bike spot-on with their guidance!
-Ej-

That's what I'm worried about engine damage from too lean condition. And I don't think they were that white the first time I checked them. First time valve adjustment for me. I watch the video from this site and got the shims from the Gsresources web site shim club. Both Web sites are GREAT.

Quote from: Electrojake on November 07, 2010, 07:25:45 AM
I don't want to sound like a meany but. . .
If your technically proficient enough to do a valve adjustment then whey the plug question?
Just woudering.
But yeah, your F bike is going to be very lean in its stock form. Suzuki was forced to do that by bloated elitists that control such things.

Here is some info on reading plugs>>>
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=53907.0

And here too>>> http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=10242.0

As for jetting advice, you came to the right place.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38094.0

A jetting matrix>>>http://beergarage.com/GSMatrix.aspx

And of course the GS500 Wiki>>>http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Rejetting

As for making it richer, that's simple, however the real question would be:
"Is running stock (lean to the point of a white plug) bad in any way for the engine".
I'm a comutter, not a mechanic so I too would be interested in some posts on your issue.
BTW: The crew here is great. I got my 2007 F bike spot-on with their guidance!
-Ej-

FYI........when I bought my '09 GS500 in June, the shop mechanic came out to answer any questions I might have....I didn't have any questions, so I just asked what he knew about the bike in general.......

He said, among other things, that the GS500 was set to the lean side from the factory, and he recommended going a little richer.  I asked if it was too lean, to the point of engine damage.....He said no..........but it would run better if set a little richer, but would also get poorer fuel mileage...........

I left the mixture as is form the factory, and I have gone almost 9000 miles since then, without problem......I am getting quite good mileage, in the low 60's MPH most of the time........Spark plugs are to the light side, but I betting that the engine can take it....

Cookie

I'm sure all the great minds at Suzuki said; Hey, I've got a great Idea, why don't we set up the GS500 engines to run so lean that they eventually hole pistons and burn valves--then again, we could just set them lean enough to get great milage, pass emission standards, and keep plugs and combustion chambers cleaner longer----I think we'll go with the latter.

I guess I will leave it alone, it runs fine.

I guess the bloated, pompous, elitist, special-interest addicted lawmakers, that know virtually nothing about the science of combustion, or even simple mechanics may have set the emissions standard a tad too high.


Now that I got that off my chest. . .
1.)   I thought for sure at least a few of the high post count guru's here would have jumped in on this. Seemed like it was going to be an interesting topic. Guess I was wrong.
2.)   Roomer is that soon Suzuki will discontinue sales of the GS500F in the USA because it simply cant make the emission standard with the old (existing) design.
3.)   mike10, under normal (commuter) use I'm sure you will do fine with your stock jetting. If you are happy with your bike as is, why mess with perfection?

And ojstinson, Ditto!
Running clean & lean at 22.5-pilot/65-mid/140-main.
-Ej-

I've seen GS'es burn quite nice from the factory, my friend had one tha tI literally got my hands on wiht some like 450 miles. It burned fairly darkish tan.
However that is all @ idle. You can burn richish @ idle and lean all across the midrange, emissins are done @ 3500 or so right ... yea ...
I'd plug pull at rpm under load so you retain the throttle position you want to read at, and read it if you must.
Older GS'es have floats going high with wear, that makes it get richer ... newer - 01+ ... sorry no such luck. I'd test and jet ... you can reduce your likely hood of knocking or pre ignition by running premium.
Cool.
Buddha.

Now that's what I'm talking about!
A visit from the Big Guy himself.
Thanks Chief

Quote from: The Buddha on November 08, 2010, 03:46:54 PM
I've seen GS'es burn quite nice from the factory, my friend had one tha tI literally got my hands on wiht some like 450 miles. It burned fairly darkish tan.
However that is all @ idle. You can burn richish @ idle and lean all across the midrange, emissins are done @ 3500 or so right ... yea ...
I'd plug pull at rpm under load so you retain the throttle position you want to read at, and read it if you must.
Older GS'es have floats going high with wear, that makes it get richer ... newer - 01+ ... sorry no such luck. I'd test and jet ... you can reduce your likely hood of knocking or pre ignition by running premium.
Cool.
Buddha.

Why would a GS get knocking or pre ignition (two names for same thing)?

You either get knock, or you don't get knock.......it's not a "likelyhood" type of deal........

Running premium is an urban myth!  Waste of money!

As they say.."flame suit on!" lol

Cookie

Quote from: twocool on November 08, 2010, 06:06:48 PM
Why would a GS get knocking or pre ignition (two names for same thing)?

You either get knock, or you don't get knock.......it's not a "likelyhood" type of deal........

Running premium is an urban myth!  Waste of money!

As they say.."flame suit on!"

Yeah I though your comments would have draw some attention too but well. . .
Seeing as I'm the resident post whore (for lack of a gentler term), A lower octane fuel would have a tendency to ignite at a lower temperature so if you are running lean (as in stock) your running hotter than necessary for optimum performance.
That extra heat would have a tendency to ignite the fuel before the combination of compression, spark, and good engineering would want it to.
In a simple carbureted engine like the GS500, the stoichiometric ratio is obvious. So why force a problem to exist with some ultra lean condition when there is absolutely no good reason to do it?

Oh, silly me. I forgot!
The bloated, pompous, elitist, special-interest addicted lawmakers, that know virtually nothing about the science of combustion set the emissions standard too stinkin' high.

Quote from: Electrojake on November 09, 2010, 06:33:01 PM

Quote from: twocool on November 08, 2010, 06:06:48 PM
Why would a GS get knocking or pre ignition (two names for same thing)?

You either get knock, or you don't get knock.......it's not a "likelyhood" type of deal........

Running premium is an urban myth!  Waste of money!

As they say.."flame suit on!"

Yeah I though your comments would have draw some attention too but well. . .
Seeing as I'm the resident post whore (for lack of a gentler term), A lower octane fuel would have a tendency to ignite at a lower temperature so if you are running lean (as in stock) your running hotter than necessary for optimum performance.
That extra heat would have a tendency to ignite the fuel before the combination of compression, spark, and good engineering would want it to.
In a simple carbureted engine like the GS500, the stoichiometric ratio is obvious. So why force a problem to exist with some ultra lean condition when there is absolutely no good reason to do it?

Oh, silly me. I forgot!
The bloated, pompous, elitist, special-interest addicted lawmakers, that know virtually nothing about the science of combustion set the emissions standard too stinkin' high.

OK to what you say above, except it doesn't happen.........my 09 is one of those "lean" adjusted bikes.....it does not knock.........so anti knock fuel has nothing to stop knocking because it doesn't knock in the first place.......

We are talking degrees here.........there's lean, then there's too lean.........these bikes may be lean, but they are not too lean....at least in my limited experience wth my 09..........

But it's a simple logic problem...........

If the mixture is so lean as to cause knock..........the problem is the MIXTURE, not the GAS!!!!

You have to fix the problem.............it will still be too lean on hi test!

The proper soloution would be to richen the mixture........duh!

OK...long story alert.!!!!........to point out faulty logic of trying to compensate for wrong mixture by changing gas..........

Years ago I went horseback riding with my cousin......we rented horses from the local stable.....the stable hand told my cousin that the horse he was riding has a nasty habbit of freaking out and throwing off its rider......But not to worry, before the horse freaked out, it would always "put its ears back", as a warning sign that it was pissed off.


So there we went on our ride.......

Sure enough, a few miles into the trail, his horse's ears started to slant back, indicating the horse was getting pissed off and about to buck and throw my cousin..........

My cousin, always resourceful, came up with an ingenious solution..........

He simply leand forward, and PUSHED the horse's ears back up straight!!!


Cookie

Great story, that says it all. Like you say, they may be lean and a little cold blooded but certainly not so lean as to cause damage or engine knock. It makes no sense at all that Suzuki would sell a self destructing engine design, that would be totally counterproductive and not at all good for business or reputation.

Well yeah, that sounds good but Lets put it in proper order. . .
It was The Buddha that stated; "reducing the likely hood of knock". I myself have not used the term "knock" once in this thread. My point was about Federal regulations forcing Suzuki to do other than what they know is best for longevity and performance of the machine.
 
And yes, It is the lean condition that causes the too-hot situation to exist in the first place.
Obviously if you richen it up, things cool off and the (likelihood) issue goes away by default.
Which is exactly why the vast majority of  everyone here runs +1 or more on the pitifully lean stock "F" bike jetting of:
Pilot 17.5
Mid 60
Main 130

As for Suzuki. . .
IMHO, if the Feds did not force them to, they would never run the A/F ratio so lean. But what do I know, like I said, I'm a commuter, not a mechanic.
And as for mike10's original question, I guess the proper answer would be: No you don't "need" to make it richer. Stock is fine, especially if your happy with it.

Two very good posts up there 
And thanks for the tip on the horse's ears!
-Ej-

Quote from: twocool on November 09, 2010, 09:38:07 PM

If the mixture is so lean as to cause knock..........the problem is the MIXTURE, not the GAS!!!!

Not entirely true. It's entirely possible for a motor to suffer from detonation on one grade of gas and not on the other. The mixture may be too lean for one and not the other.

Quote from: saxman on November 10, 2010, 06:33:57 PM

Quote from: twocool on November 09, 2010, 09:38:07 PM

If the mixture is so lean as to cause knock..........the problem is the MIXTURE, not the GAS!!!!

Not entirely true. It's entirely possible for a motor to suffer from detonation on one grade of gas and not on the other. The mixture may be too lean for one and not the other.

Doooouuuuggghhh!!!

You pretty much missed the point all together!

Yes, if you get knock when very lean when running regular, you might not get knock running high test.........

But the mixture will STILL BE VERY LEAN!!!!

THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE KNOCK IS THE MIXTURE.....The GS 500 is desiggned to run on regular....if it knocks on regular there is a problem........the problem is not the octane, because a problem free engine runs fine on regular.

The problem is elsewhere.........too lean might be the reason..........

Knock is the SYMPTOM.........

Cookie

True, but for someone to say that knocking is entirely due to the mixture and not the gas is far from accurate. There are plenty of reasons one would want to tune an engine in such a way that it runs great on premium but knocks on regular. It's not always a bad thing or even a symptom of anything wrong.

Is that the case with a stock GS motor? Absolutely not.
It's far from an absolute truth though.

Quote from: saxman on November 10, 2010, 07:01:13 PM
True, but for someone to say that knocking is entirely due to the mixture and not the gas is far from accurate. There are plenty of reasons one would want to tune an engine in such a way that it runs great on premium but knocks on regular. It's not always a bad thing or even a symptom of anything wrong.

Is that the case with a stock GS motor? Absolutely not.
It's far from an absolute truth though.

I'm sticking to my point..........a stock gs 500 does not knock on regular.......do we agree on this?

Now if we (for some reason) lean the mixture until we get knock......it is knocking because of mixture.....right?

If we richen the mixture again.....the knock will go away.........

Why would anyone expect to get any "performance" gain from running really lean and using high test??

Running too lean, will reduce power.........no matter what gas.......

Now if we MODIFY our engine......like higher compression, advanced timing, etc.....sure, now we want to /must use high test to prevent knock and derive the higher "performance" available form our newly modified higher effeciency engine.

But if I remember, this discussion was about the later versions of the GS500 coming from the factory with a lean setting.........these bikes don't knock.....they are lean, but not too lean........if they don't knock, high test is of no benefit........if they happened to knock, there are a few possible reasons, one being too lean........if it is too lean the solution is to richen.......

The question also is, are these fatory set lean bikes too lean to the point of engine damage?......the answer seems to be no.....

I would agree that they may benefit from a richer mixture, if you want a tiny performance increase.....(and mileage dicrease) running the "perfect" mixture will give a bit more power than running on the lean side.....running way too lean, to the point of knock,  is, of course, a bad thing all around.......

We are talkig a matter of degree here......

Cookie