Hello,

I bought my GS (a 2005) about a month ago. I am the third owner but the bike has justttt over 14,000 miles on it now. I've got a good 300 or so miles on it personally which have been great. However, I'm starting to worry I picked up a semi-lemon. I looked up a number of things with the search function but I don't have the mechanical knowhow to put it all together.

This is going to be a long post to give anyone willing to hear it a lot of background but for the more eager folks: The bike needs to be push started even after sitting in a garage on a functioning Yuasa battery tender when the air temp is in the 45-60 degree F range. Once running, the bike is generally great, only concern is sometimes the RPM will hang around 3000 even when I pull the clutch in.

Now, the long story. First, when I bought the bike it started right up (even on a colder night, granted with some more choke). I heard cold starts can be a pain but it seems very unusual that I need to push start so much. To try to be as inclusive as possible with details I'll break this post up under a few headings. In advance, I really appreciate any help or suggestions people may have. I would just get it checked out by the Suzuki dealer near me but wanted to check here first (Dealer charges ~$100 just too look at it...). I am pretty good mechanically with a car, but know next to nothing about motorcycles in that sense of the word.

1.) THE BIKE
The bike is generally stock mechanically. All the lights were re-done (HID headlight, LED signals, standard brake, underglow added). To accommodate this, the previous owner upgraded the battery to a (bigger?) sealed battery. A micron exhaust (that fits an R6) was added with a custom pipe and sounds/feels great. I do not know if the bike was re-jetted after the exhaust was added, but either way the bike runs great once it gets going. Other than that, custom paint and seat. All in all, the bike is sexy but don't think many of these upgrades are contributing to my trouble now.

2.) BIKE MAINTENANCE 
The first owner sold the bike at ~4500 miles. I picked it up around 13,700 miles. The previous owner keep an OK maintenance log. Everything was pretty standard, oil changes, etc. The new pipe has been on since 5,000 so don't know if it would cause something to crap out at this stage of things. The oil was just changed ~1,000 miles ago. It has gotten 91 or 93 at the pump according to the past owner (and I continue to put high test in - the extra $1 or so is worth it I guess even though I've heard mixed thing about 87 vs 91). The bike cosmetically looks flawless. Forks, etc are all on point. I, however, have no idea what the carbs look like (which is a problem because I am thinking this has a big deal with why the bike won't start on its own). The previous owner did admit that it sat a bit but wasn't like it went a full season without getting started. It was getting at least 3 or 4 rides a month most recently. Since I have owned it, I have used a Yuasa battery tender that I know is working because its been used on multiple bikes. I checked the oil and its both clean and at the right level. I even get killer millage (something like 55 mpg cruising 50 mph roads). Yet, the bike won't start on its own, sigh.

3.) PROBLEMS DURING RIDING
Like I said at the top of the post, the revs will hang at 3000 RPM randomly sometimes when I pull the clutch in (usually in first gear but that's because I only notice it at stop lights). I don't know if this is significant, but figured it was noteworthy considering the circumstances. Usually, the bike ideals at 1500 RPM. I've read on here that the ideal is 1200 RPM, but is 300 worth adjusting / how can I adjust idle speed? The RPMs hang very randomly, its not like it happens every time the clutch is pulled in. Also, the clutch is fully functioning as I can tell, the bike definitely isn't going anywhere when I pull it in regardless where the revs are at. I hope it goes without saying, but I clearly am not opening the throttle when this happens. The bike is a bit rough when down-shifting unless the clutch is let out superrrr slowly. I don't mind it but wasn't sure if this is normal or not. Only reason I even bring it up is because my back wheel danced side to side on a downshift during my most recently ride and gave me a decent scare because I hadn't done anything that should have caused me to lose traction in a straight line. Otherwise, the bike runs great. I am trying to put all the bad out there to possibly help with diagnosing the problem, not to sound like I'm complaining or something.

4.) PUSH STARTING
I've looked online and heard a few different things about push starting. I was hoping someone could comment on my technique or guide me to a good resource for it. Usually, I will ride with a friend so I've pushed him on my bike until he starts it. Today was the first time I had to push start alone and couldn't get it  .   Public service announcement: Thank you if you are still reading.    My technique for trying to start myself:

• Turn the bike on and put the bike in second gear
• Run (kinda had some help from a gentle downhill slope) to a decent speed then dump the clutch as I slam my ass down on the seat while simultaneously hitting the starter

Should the choke be on before doing any of this? Should I have used the "prime" fuel valve setting if the bike has sat for about a week? When do I pull the clutch back in? Any other hints / suggestions? Is there any difference for a 2 person push start other than not having to get up to speed yourself? I tried just about everything by myself today and no luck. Probably pushed my bike around for 1 or 2 tenths of a mile trying to get it started  . Even worse, by the time I was ready to give up on the solo start myself, the battery didn't even have enough juice to keep the headlight running full power (started to flicker). This was after maybeee 30 minutes, is this normal?

The battery is relatively new -- 2 years old MAX -- and charges just fine according to the tender. I even gave starting a shot quickly while the tender was still attached and no dice. For no real mechanical experience with motorcycles, I believe there is a problem with either the carbs being dirty, the battery charging system crapping out, or there is a bad spark plug. Any other ideas what can be wrong? I can handle a wrench in general, but have no experience with bikes, is there anything I could do to try to fix whatever is going on? Lastly, do the problems seem like riding in the condition it is in will cause more trouble in the long run? Like is the fact it doesn't want to start a sign that I really need to take it to get looked at instead of just push starting and getting my rides in? Again, once the motor is running, everything is great except for the occasional RPM hang and down-shifting roughness if it is relevant.

Thank you to everyone for any suggestions and help. It is really frustrating to not know what is going on and hope to figure this out soon.

Cheers 

Your first thing to check is where do you turn the key when you turn it off? Are you aware of the "Park" position that leaves the tail light and front parking lights on? Don't turn the key all way counter clockwise when you turn the bike off - you do and you're in PARK.
Most common problem for not starting based on what you're saying because it is draining the battery.

Hanging Idle means you have a lean condition.  If the carbs weren't re-jetted for your pipe there's at least part of your issue. Vacuum leaks  and clogged pilot jets will also create  a lean condition..... Hard starting makes me think the pilots are probably clogged- How long did the bike sit unused before you bought it?

If you're handy...get a clymer manual or read the How to 's etc on this forum on how to clean/fix your carbs... It's not too hard... if you aren't  so inclined...find someone who can do it for you ( Usually entails paying them ..).


A 2 year old battery can be crap...for that matter a 9 month old battery can be crap if it's not used/maintained....but that has nothing to do with your lean condition.Charge your battery...check your voltage after it's charged...
Yes Choke on when the bike is cold....

Fix the bike right and you won't need to worry about how to push start it.

I've had all those same problems too.  

First things first.  Adjust your idle to 1000 to 1200.  An idle too high will cause the hanging problem.  If that doesn't work, then there is something more serious, but not difficult to do.  You'll probably have to pull the carbs and clean them.  Hell, do it anyways just to get to know your machine.  Also, check your air/fuel mixture screws (hidden under brass caps on the carbs).  You may also have a vacuum leak or you may need to adjust your valves.  These are all the steps I went through to fix my hanging idle.

Thank you all for the quick replies.

adidasguy: Thanks for the heads up, I actually didn't know about PARK but when I turn the bike of I just lock the forks. I know the lights aren't on when I leave the garage. Also, since I have run into the problems I have been plug the bike to a tender ( http://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-YUA1200901-Smartshot-Battery-Maintainer/dp/B000GZL29M ) every time I finish my ride. In general I can only make it out on weekends so it was my hope this would keep the battery ready for the next time I go out but so far hasn't noticeably helped.

Jared: The bike sat probably from June on. The past owner told me he started riding again in March or whenever the snow melted up here in the Northeast (brutal winter). He said he road for most of the Spring but didn't make it out too much over the Summer. He still rode 3-4 times a month so it wasn't like the bike sat totally unused. I do think the carbs are the problem and may make a project of it sometime soon. Before I start to work on it, wanted to see if there was something worse that could be the problem. Would the battery still be no good even in it can fully charge according the the tender? I don't have a voltmeter but could probably track one down if I needed to.

Ver4: Is there somewhere the way to adjust the idle specifically on a GS (2004+ if it makes a difference) is spelled out?

Generally, is the bike definitely running lean if the RPMs only hang randomly? For example, at some stop lights I'll see them around 3000 like I said. However, just as randomly at a different light the RPMs will be 1500 with the clutch pulled in.

Is it worth trying fuel additives before taking the carbs out? If so, any suggestions?

Thanks again

June til October.....Clogged pilot  jets are likely the problem...the fuel evaporates out of the bowls...leaving all the  additives they out in the gas to  clog up all those small orifices up... Starting it every other month may have slowed the clog down but it doesn't take long considering how small the pilots etc are.

Ver4...My brain thought it but the fingers didn't type it...+1 on checking/adjusting the valve clearances too.

Random hanging idle... yeah it wont always do it.... if you are engine braking and using the brakes and slow  the rpms down  to a point- the idle  will not always hang...
Clutch pulled in... blip the throttle and let it come down on its own you'll probably get it more often.

Pull the carbs -DRAIN THEM first...( drain screws on the bottom of the fuel bowls) remove fairing(s)?,seat ,gas tank, tails ,air filter, airbox, throttle and choke cables..unbolt the frame petcock...
12mm For the gas tank bolts and grab bar if you need to take it off for your tails.....10mm for the side panels... phillips for the carb clamps...10mm wrench for the throttle cable...10 mm for the frame petcock... 10mm for the battery ( just in case..)...
Is the gas tank petcock still obstructed on the newer models...?- long flat screwdriver for the tank petcock....pair of pliers to unhook the fuel tank hoses from the  frame petcock...

an IMPACT driver for removing the fuel bowl screws...correct small flat screwdriver to remove your pilots...(I haven't done a newer set of carbs for a gs yet...).

Read the manual you get a few times on the carbs... read the thing on the site a few times...You'll need some  carb cleaner spray...(Gumout is my fav..)
DO ONE CARB AT A TIME....... That way if you get confused....you can open the other one and see how it's supposed to be.

Double check the float heights....lots of threads on here about carbs and float heights checking methods...
And for shaZam!s and giggles you might want to get a "rebuild" kit while you have them open....new float needle,float seat, bowl gaskets and  small orings ( going by the older carbs again... dunno what the newer kits contain..).

As for checking for a rejet...see what the needles/jet sizes are and compare them to what the stock ones are supposed to be...(sorry..the well ran out on this little part..)...

Good luck....

Right in that even a 9 month old battery can be crap.

If you have a good battery, you don't need a battery tender. If you have something that's using power when the bike is off AND it is off for a few weeks, then maybe a battery tender is required to recharge it. I've never had to use one. Nor have I ever had to push start a bike.

Do you have a volt meter? You should. Cheap at Radio Schlock or any hardware store (If you buy one, get one that reads AC, DC and resistance. Resistance handy to check for bad switches and shorts, briefs and boxers .). Check the voltage AFTER your ride. Leave the meter connected (they cause virtually zero drain on power) and watch the voltage over the next 24 hours. Could be bad battery or some wiring between the battery and ignition switch has worn insulation and is causing a drain - if you see a significant voltage drop.

Have we thought that your starter motor or solenoid are going bad and short out - making it not possible to start the bike? If the meter shows the battery is still charged after 24 hours and your lights are bright - bet its the starter stuff.

What does happens when you press the starter switch? Clicking? Grinding? Lights dimming? Is the clutch pulled in? Are you in neutral? Is the center/side stand up? Anything different when the problem started or did it come on slowly? (Remenber there are a bunch of safety switches, so read the owners manual or the Haynes or Clymer book to know all about them. Any one of them can keep you from starting the bike.)

(Note: Do the tests with the volt meter WITHOUT using your battery tender.)

I would say jetting as well. I had a clogged pilot that caused all kinds of problems, and instead of cleaning them I just went ahead and threw in a DynoJet kit. It is easy to do, just remember where the vacuum hoses go when you take the carbs off. I had never worked on a bike before and had minimal experience with cars when I did mine, and it took me maybe 3 hours.

On a side note, this guy says it's got custom paint, h.i.d.'s, and underglow. WHY HAS NO ONE DEMANDED PICS YET? Do I have to do everything around here?

OP, pics please 

Not sure about your electrical issues, but perhaps the accessories are draining more than your moto makes?

In any case, my prettier half has an '09 GS500F; takes two to four times as long to Battery Tender than my '09 Ninja 650...but it (so far) always starts.

We just ran into the hanging-idle problem.  Took the GS in for the 600 mile service, and apparently they fooled about with the idle as it started hanging.  I addressed it by making sure the GS was fully warmed up, then backing the (1,500 rpm) idle to just over 1,200 rpm; no more hanging.  Don't know about the exhaust/jets, though.

I will definitely look into getting a voltmeter by the weekend and report back. I figured the bike should be able to start if it was fully charged even if the battery is draining too quickly but will look into it thank you. Doing the carbs actually sounds like a lot of fun, I am going to call around a few independent mechanics that know bikes to get a quote and take it from there. The instructions were great but when I originally searched for answers the float height "scared" me although that's not the right word I'm looking for. If the quotes are ridiculous I'm opening her up myself.

Jared, is the rebuild kit this ( http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prods11.html )? What exactly do the new jets do? Do they just redirect the amount of air that flows into the carbs?

I hope it isn't the starter, that just sounds expensive. As far as sounds go its a little something like this:
First try, imagine your finger slipped off the starter button before it fully kicked in (basically normal but then engine doesn't turn over). The light does start to flicker. After a few attempts, instead of maybe 3 ::insert engine noise here:: only 1 will make it before it just stops. I haven't heard grinding or clicking so much but the light definitely flickers. After a couple attempts at a stand still, pushing the starter button has no effect.. literally no noise or vibration from the engine (pretty sure this is because I drained the battery. Don't know what normal is but would a fully charged battery drain in 45 minutes if you essentially left the lights on and such?). However if I try push starting then I get that normal engine just before it turns over sound with it not turning over unless it is really pushed. I've tried starting at a stand still in both N and 1st.. no luck. Clutch always pulled in (unless I'm dumping it for the push) and side stand up.

While you mentioned the manuals, is one preferred? I've heard one is more for mechanics while the other is more for the lay motorcyclist. Which would be more helpful in this case? I don't have an OEM manual, apparently it has been missing since the first owner. I definitely also want to look into how to lower the idle RPM if that may help.

Let me load some pictures on a server and get them right up!   They are from my phone but get the job done. Disclaimer, all the work was done by the previous owner so I can't take credit for it but looks stellar.

Quote from: RSK70 on November 18, 2010, 07:32:24 PM
While you mentioned the manuals, is one preferred?

I always use Haynes, they are very step-by-step and have lots of pretty pictures.

Some cell phone shots:




It is a totally different bike at night although I don't drive with the underglow on because still can't figure out the law on it ha. Can't afford to guess wrong. It matches the exhaust canister though.

I didn't see this anywhere, but the idle can be adjusted by the idle screw.  It's a small knob that is attached to the carbs (in the middle) and it hangs low so you can reach it w/o removing anything.  However, if it's faired, then I don't know if you have to remove the plastics or not.

Quote from: ver4 on November 18, 2010, 08:03:17 PM
I didn't see this anywhere, but the idle can be adjusted by the idle screw.  It's a small knob that is attached to the carbs (in the middle) and it hangs low so you can reach it w/o removing anything.  However, if it's faired, then I don't know if you have to remove the plastics or not.

You can reach it on the faired version (I did), but beware...if the moto is fully warmed up (as it should be) the surrounding bits are HOT!

No that's not the kit I am referring to.

An example.:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/360303058838?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=170666057794&crlp=1_263602_304662&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=1bb9ea5412a0a0aad453b8b3ffdc8775&itemid=360303058838&ff4=263602_304662

That's a jet kit you looked up...(which you may or may not need..).

Don't fool with the idle knob...don't try to change the float height (you have to have the carbs out and the bowls off to adjust them..). Open them up...clean all the orifices and the jets...CHECK..the float height  ...put it back together....or take it somewhere.

Fix one problem at a time- charge your battery...if it wont hold a charge..get a new one. You're running it down trying to start it and start it and start it... fix your carbs.

I find the Haynes manual more of a tutorial/instructional manual than a mechanic service manual. I'd vote for the Haynes.
If it is the starter motor or other electrical part, they're all over ebay for good prices.
As for all the "accessories", can you disconnect all of them so your bike is back to stock? Maybe prior owner wired some in that are always on??? also, when you press the starter button, the headlight goes off so there is more power available for the started motor (this can be seen in the Haynes manual electrical diagram which is in color and that makes it easy to follow the wiring.) If all your "accessories" are ON then they will drain available power from the starter motor.

So,
1. Get a volt meter. Watch what the voltage does with the bike off. Graph it for a day. It will probably drop slightly at first, (maybe half a volt if slightly over charged for what it is happy with), then stabilize.
2. Disconnect all the extra stuff (put plugs in if not already there so you can easily reconnect things to isolate future problems)
3. If your volt meter is also an amp meter (most do volts, resistance and amps) you can disconnect the positive battery terminal and run power through the amp meter with the bike off and just sitting there. Meter should read zero current being used. If not zero - SOMETHING is draining your power even with the ignition off. (Don't try to start the bike with the meter in series with the battery as the leads of the meter might not be big enough to handle the power and could melt).

Sounds like your main problem is with the starter. The jetting, carbs and other things seem secondary right now - because your starter dies. The fact that you can push start does indicate that your bike does run. So get the starter fixed first then worry about the carbs, etc.

Fix one thing first then move on to the other things. You've been given lots of good advice but I feel nothing is worth the effort until you can start your bike.

You said you use More Choke... do you mean... full choke for longer - or - you put the choke on closer to full choke?

The GS needs Full Choke - yeah yeah, I know, there are those who don't use choke and blah blah, but just humor this ok? So to start the bike...

1 - Put the choke on full
2 - neutral
3 - clutch in
4 - turn on key and press starter button

Note: If the bike is sitting for a week between starts, then put the petcock on Prime for a minute first.

Onward... your lights dim after a while? Battery hasn't enough charge. I know you've mentioned a Tender... but have you tried jump starting it with your car's battery? The Tender might be charging it over time, but if the battery is not fully functional, it may need all that time to charge and will just drain from riding. So, how is the electrolyte level in the battery? (note, a battery can be DOA so the newness of a battery doesn't mean much.)

Hard to start - apart from a non-conducive starting procedure and a poor battery, your valves could be tight. Tight valves = hard to start.

So start with the simple things first... if you car battery will start it but the fully charged bike battery won't, then you could have a bad battery.

As Adidas said... Fix One Thing At A Time Before Moving On To Other Things.

Michael

Hey RSK, in your 1st post you say you "jump on the bike and hit the starter" - you don't actually try to hit the starter button with the clutch out and in 2nd gear do you?

Awesome advice and comments guys thank you. I tracked down a buddy who will be able to get me a multimeter on Saturday. The tender is able to fully charge the battery (as indicated by putting the battery in "Storage Mode") but maybe the battery is just bad news and is faking out the tender. Since I have been having trouble, the bike has been sitting with a tender/charger on it anytime I'm not actually riding it.

Mister: I will try the prime setting for a little longer next time. When I tried starting it myself, I put it on prime for 15-30 seconds because had no idea how long to use it for and didn't want to flood anything. I have no problem using choke, I just want the thing to start haha. When it was starting well when I just got it, I would put full choke (all the way down) to start it and then adjust the idle with the choke to about 2500-3000 RPMs to let it warm up for a bit. The lights only dim / flicker after a while of trying to start the bike. It is still very bright because the HID upgrade but the flickering is most noticeable. Once the bike starts to run, the lights are totally fine as far as I know now. The previous owner upgraded to a (bigger?) sealed battery to handle all the electrical upgrades so I can't check electrolyte levels.

Big Rich: I had a real gentle slope but was getting up to pretty good speed pushing it (~10mph) but as soon as I'd let the clutch out it would crank once or twice and be done. I then tried again a few times in 2nd dumping then pulling back in and hitting the starter... I was desperate  . Hopefully that didn't mess anything up worse. I still need to learn a good solo push start technique but definitely want to get this bike running like normal again.

So general consensus, check the battery and if it isn't holding a charge well swap it out. Next, check the carbs if the new battery starts the bike right up. If not, look into getting a new starter.  Should I be concerned with the spark plug?

Quote from: Big Rich on November 19, 2010, 03:14:41 AM
Hey RSK, in your 1st post you say you "jump on the bike and hit the starter" - you don't actually try to hit the starter button with the clutch out and in 2nd gear do you?

Ya don't try hitting the starter ... did you have the choke on when you tried to push start it? Other then that and hitting the starter sounded like you did fine .. we just had a thread about push starting around here somewhere =P