I have an M50. I love it. it's an 06 with 18xxx miles on it.

Quote from: mister on November 19, 2010, 02:31:07 AM
PS... Our local MC Store is having a Demo Day. So I'm taking a few things for a spin... SV650, Bandit1250, CB900. I'll add some thought of them to this thread to confound you more 

I tried to talk my wife into moving "down under"...but she doesn't like being that far from family...and the bugs, they freak her out...but there are a lot of similarities between Canada and Australia...except for the weather...

Anyway, not what I wanted to say...when I test rode the Bandit 1250s... ...man, what a power house...from 3000rpm to around 8000rpm it pulls like the afterburner is on and the speed will show it...I haven't tried the other two, but have heard good things about the SV650 (similar riding position to the GS)...the Bandit was a better fit for me than the SV, but I liked the sound of the M50 and I felt pretty cool riding it...still thinking about the MT-01 and the M90 as well...

Have fun test riding, I know I did...

Later.

I ended up riding four different bikes today. So in the order of riding them...

Suzuki SV650s


The first thing you notice when you mount the SV650 is the forward lean needed to reach the handlebars. While someone looking from the side might not think you are leaning forward too much, compared to the GS the lean is substantial - at least it was on the bike I rode.

Taking off, even at slow speed, you can feel the torqueiness of the engine. And giving an extra throttle twist sees the bike pull ahead nicely without sounding strained. The sound was throaty. The handlebar buzz from the Vtwin was not that great. It was there and maybe might play an issue after an hour in the seat at highway speed, but otherwise not too bad and something I'd assume you'd get used to easily. The upper body lean would be no good for those with a weaker core strength. I managed alright for the 15 or so minutes I was on the bike. But otherwise I found it a little annoying.

The worst part for me, though, was the bumpiness of the ride. Bumps the GS seems to absorb were readily transfered to me on the SV650s. That took confidence away from me and a few bends I bounced around. Big negative for me. maybe it was the way this particular bike was set up and another, different, SV650 would be different.

Suzuki Bandit 1250s (I wanted to ride the Naked but they didn't have one).


Hopping off the SV650s onto the Bandit the more upright riding position stands out. The height at which you seemed to be above the dials and road was also noticeable. The stock bike was quieter. But the power... oh my... so smooth and effortless. Even if you were in the wrong gear like one gear too high, the engine just pulled you right out without a hint of struggling. And the ride was supremely comfortable. The only two Issues I had with the bike were...

Cornering: While the bike does corner well and there is no sudden Drop into a corner, it felt somewhat reluctant compared to the SV650s and the GS. I put this down to the longer wheelbase and is something that would be quickly gotten used to.

Seat: The seat seemed to be angled ever so slightly towards the tank. And I felt as if I was sliding into the tank. Of course, this may hint I should have been sitting closer to the tank - and I probably should have - but it was something I noticed and something I got used to in the brief time I spent on the bike.

Yamaha FZ6


This bike was an unintended ride. The bike I wanted to ride was not there. So took this for a spin instead.

First impression is how upright the seating is. I was expecting to lean forward much more than I did.

Following this... the first real corner I took on this bike I felt something not right. As if the front dug in a little or the back slid out! Either way, it took away all confidence I had in the bike to lean without doing something odd. As the ride continued this oddness in a lean disappeared and I figured it was inadequate tire pressure.

The engine sounded ok as the throttle was twisted. But while it sounded like it was working - and it was cause it needed to be revved to work - it seemed to be doing it harder than the SV650. That is, a quick burst on the throttle was more effective on the SV650 than the FZ6. Of course, maybe I wasn't working the FZ6 enough. In which case, this simply shows a lack of torque compared to the SV650.

I also noticed, that coming on to the throttle after being off, was a dead spot where there was nothing and then, suddenly, there was something. Not good when coming onto the throttle in a corner you may have come off the throttle on. Sure, ideally, we should always have some throttle, in an ideal world. But there are times when we don't. And expecting some driving force, not getting it, and then getting it suddenly, isn't too safe in my books.

Honda CB900 (Honda 919) Hornet


Hoping on the Hornet I felt at home. Nothing felt odd about the riding position or peg position. The throttle response was smooth like the bandit. But unlike the bandit, this thing leant into corners effortlessly, just like the GS. In fact, if you set out to make a more powerful GS500, I would have to say the result would be the Honda 919.

Conclusion...

All bikes had mirrors that remained vibration free. All bikes, when the mirrors were set correctly, gave adequate vision. In order of...

Cornering Preference (feel as it cornered - naturalness, stability, etc. - while the SV650 felt easier to lean, it also felt less stable on the road)

1 - Honda 919 (CB900 Hornet)
2 - Suzuki Bandit 1250s
3 - Suzuki SV650s
4 - Yamaha FZ6 (even though this did not Bounce around corners and took them Smoother, it is last cause of the squirliness I felt on the first corner, other FZ6's might be different)

Comfort Preference

1 - Honda 919
2 - Bandit 1250s
3 - FZ6
4 - SV650s

Power / Feel of Power / Smoothness of Power

1 - Bandit 1250s (the Honda would be equal first on smoothness and feel, but, obviously, it is smaller than a 1250 so has less of it. But how often do you do 125mph / 200kph?)
2 - Honda 919
3 - SV650
4 - FZ6

Conclusion Preference (which would I buy)

1 - Honda 919
2 - Bandit 1250s
3 - FZ6
4 - SV650 (if the suspension could be softened and the handlebars raised and brought back then this would move to position 3, but as comfort is paramount it drops to position 4)

My Experience At The Dealers...

Dealer 1 - SV650 and Bandit 1250s
Pleasant. No sales pressure. Talked like a normal guy. Even said at the end before I had a chance to say anything... when you're ready to buy, give me a call... and handed me his business card. Never asked how much I had to spend or any of those typical Qualifying questions - when are you looking to buy, what do you have to trade, etc.

Dealer 2 - FZ6
Had originally gone there to ride a Honda 919 they Said they had. On the phone had even suggested to put a Holding Deposit on it Subject To Satisfactory Test Ride. Oh yeah, that ain't highpressure selling. After a couple more textbook selling tricks I said... listen, stop with the sales tricks they told you at bike selling school, ok, and let's just go for a ride and talk like normal people... at which point he became more normal. He tried a couple tricks again later and I told him to stop with the sales pressure techniques and he went normal again. Overall, though, a negative vibe.

Dealer 3 - Honda 919
Salesgirl took me for the test ride. She rode a Ninja 250 cause that's all she had a license for. She was NOT going to go on the highway even though they are right next to it, and was just going to ride around the block. I said I wanted to go on the highway. We did... for about 500 yards (sheesh). Admitedly, she has only been at the dealer for 2 weeks. And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

You sir are a bike slu la la la ut! I hope your GS doesn't find out.  

Oh yeh I am jealous. I would love to test ride a heap of bikes one day too but you gotta put up with the wanker dealers. I rang up about a bike that was in Townsville the other day to find out how much it was to ship a 2nd hand Triumph Thruxton they had to Brissy. Dealer told me total cost including the bike was $14,200. Now I explained to him this was ridiculous as I could purchase a new one for $14,999 on the road from Nerang. Tried to spin some BS about how it was a good price for the bike. I disagreed, he then proceeded to say he could do it for $13,999 but I would have to commit right then and there. Yeh right buddy, Ill cya later then.

I find bike sales people worse than car dealers. Like you said all you want is to be treated normal and have a normal convo about the bike you are looking at without the bullsh1t!.


By the way.....was the salesgirl cute?  

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

ive been to a couple of team  moto stores in Brisbane and i must say they do hire the hot ones  , there is one at the Virginia branch "oh my god" she made me as horny as this little guy  the was she filled her bucket of water with her low cut jeans and itty bitty singlet 

the only shame was (besides she was standing there watching me drool over her) was half hour latter she was taking the bikes out the front and she could ride better then me and most people i know.

Quote from: XLAR8 on November 20, 2010, 09:09:51 PM

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

ive been to a couple of team  moto stores in Brisbane and i must say they do hire the hot ones  , there is one at the Virginia branch "oh my god" she made me as horny as this little guy  the was she filled her bucket of water with her low cut jeans and itty bitty singlet 

the only shame was (besides she was standing there watching me drool over her) was half hour latter she was taking the bikes out the front and she could ride better then me and most people i know.

+1 on Team Moto female hiring. The salesgirl was Pro Motorcycles. The bad vide was Team Moto. Always always bad vibe from them. {shudder}.

Walked into Virginia once, from the back. I just want to browse, right. I glance at the tires on the right "May I help you?" No thanks. I move a little to the left and am looking at the luggage another "Can I help you" No thanks. Towards the front left, along the front of the store (not actually out the front door and back down the right to the rear. Another three different "Can I help you" in that time. Oh for fark sake, leave me a lone will you, I think, and walk right back out. Walking up the side of the building I go to Triumph. Looking at the bikes, even Inside their showroom, NOONE approaches me. I sit on a couple of bikes outside. I take a photo of one. Still noone approaches. I guess they have a different technique right next door at Team Moto Triumph HA!

Something else I noticed... the Triumph store was staffed by older staff while Suzuki was staffed by the younger staff. Maybe cause only old farts by Triumphs and dealing with a 22 year old right out of sales school putting the Hard Sell on will NOT be tolerated. Cause more mature people like to look, kick tyres and Then, when they are ready, they will seek someone for additional info - a lot more knowledgeable about bikes than the staff anyway.

Michael

team moto only just bought that store, it was northside suzuki. maybe you were there just after the change over and they were worried if they were keeping their jobs.

on an other note the chick iam talking about is fireblade girl... arrrr future wife for sure (there is a chick that gets around my area on a FB, full race position g-banger hanging out the back)

Quote from: madjak30 on November 19, 2010, 08:57:18 AMThe Bandit was a better fit for me than the SV, but I liked the sound of the M50 and I felt pretty cool riding it...still thinking about the MT-01 and the M90 as well...

You just need a little bigger bike with a little more power.

I have always found that I ride to the type of bike I have - if the bike has more power and handling, I use it. So I tend to buy motorcycles that have a little less power and handling than I would like so I ride them a little less aggressively than I would like, just to be on the safe side. 

Quote from: SAFE-T on November 24, 2010, 10:27:33 AM

Quote from: madjak30 on November 19, 2010, 08:57:18 AMThe Bandit was a better fit for me than the SV, but I liked the sound of the M50 and I felt pretty cool riding it...still thinking about the MT-01 and the M90 as well...

You just need a little bigger bike with a little more power.

I have always found that I ride to the type of bike I have - if the bike has more power and handling, I use it. So I tend to buy motorcycles that have a little less power and handling than I would like so I ride them a little less aggressively than I would like, just to be on the safe side. 

It was the M50 that got me seriously looking at bikes about three years ago, and it is a little more powerful than the GS...not "oh my god", but more...the "oh my god" bike is the Bandit  ...but I think I would ride that harder than the other options...my only concern with the M50 is that if my wife decides, once I get a cruiser, that she wants to go for a ride...well, I don't think it will have the poop to do it...combined we are nearly 500lbs  ...poor bike...I weigh 275lbs, and my wife is not a light weight (I don't know what she weighs...and I don't want to guess...it's better for my health... )

I am trying to loose weight over the winter, but how much???  Who knows...that's why I am looking pretty seriously at the M90 (small lie, I like the idea of the extra power anyway).  I still like the looks of the M50, but I am finding I like most bikes with an engine and wheels  ...

I think I will stick with the plan of wait for the demo season and try them all again...

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on November 24, 2010, 12:25:49 PMI think I will stick with the plan of wait for the demo season and try them all again...

Years ago I had a friend with a 750 Intruder, and later I had a VX800. Both had essentially the same motor, which these days Suzuki uses in the M50 and C50. I never really liked the Intruder, but the VX800 was pretty decent. The wife and I rode it two up from Edmonton to Calgary and back and it gave pretty much the same gas mileage both ways no matter how fast or slow you went.

Now that I have had a bike with about 40 more hp for a couple of years and have done longer trips two-up with it, I think the weaker motor might bother me a little more. I rode a C50T last spring and was quite underwhelmed with it. A smaller motor will go two-up, but it's more work. For a shorter trip it would be OK but if you want to ride for several days all the shifting and revving the engine to get some giddyup becomes a distraction. And the C90 felt like a big slug, although it had more power than the 50. 

From what I can see M90's and M109's can both be found in the used market within $500 of each other, and feature an engine design that is supposed to be more performance oriented than the early 90's design of the M50/C50/C90.

The biggest drawback the cruisers have going against them is their weight ~ the M90 is 723 lbs, compared to your GS500 (380 lbs).

In the case of the M109R, it makes 106 hp for its 764 lbs. In comparison my VFR800 makes 110hp for its 481 lbs., whereas the Suzuki GSF1250SEA Bandit makes around 100 hp for its 603 lbs.

The key difference is there is no replacement for displacement. The bigger motors all make a lot more torque, which is something you will appreciate two-up on a long trip. The M90/109 v-twins greater displacement will give them more grunt off the bottom vs. the Bandit, but once you are out of 1st gear and into some revs the multi-cyclinder motor will be gone while the v-twin just runs out of breath.

Basically, the further afield you intend to go with a passenger the more you should consider the bigger bike. I was amazed at the number of Yamaha FJR1300's I saw this summer in British Columbia from Texas, Arizona and California.

But if you ride mostly solo and/or within Alberta/BC/Washington/Montana I would go with the lightest bike I could find that made 80-100 hp for the least amount of money.

So, back to the...

MT-01, Bandit, M90...V-Strom DL1000...

What was it...As the Wheel Turns...

Later.

lacking a choice of voting for a Triumph .. street or speed Triple... i refuse to comment... or even post... oh damn!

I would choose the v-strom because i'd like to change riding style, even if i like most street bikes and cause i need the protection from the wind...

I think I already mentioned the street triple, and he wasn't going for it.

Quote from: tt_four on November 24, 2010, 02:39:41 PM
I think I already mentioned the street triple, and he wasn't going for it.

theres no accounting for taste then... in any of us 

Quotethere is a chick that gets around my area on a FB, full race position g-banger hanging out the back

Hmmm... is this a lighter colored bike. Cause I'm pretty sure I saw this two-wheeled princess in the city. Small body hugging tank top. Plait dangling down the her back. G Banger popping up from her tight jeans to say "hi" to the world as she leaned forward gripping the bars in readiness to zoom off into the traffic.

QuoteIn comparison my VFR800 makes 110hp for its 481 lbs., whereas the Suzuki GSF1250SEA Bandit makes around 100 hp for its 603 lbs.
...
I would go with the lightest bike I could find that made 80-100 hp for the least amount of money.

Just double checked the Wiki for the CB900 (Honda 919) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB900F and it's also around 110hp at 481lbs at 9k rpm

Another in that realm is the SV1000. The naked has a more upright riding position to the sport. Around 120hp and 420lbs dry weight.

On the Aust Suzuki website is says the 1250 (naked) has a Curb Mass of 247kg (around 543lbs). Interestingly, the GSX650 has a curb mass of 241kg (around 530lbs).

But with the Bandit 1250, it's all about the torque. A gear or two too high, twist the throttle and away you go. Nice  . So even though it might be like 10 HP less than the Viffer or 919 at peak, it wins the torque battle hands down and, frankly, you do Not notice the extra weight it carries. And if you will be riding two up, torque is your friend.

Quick Word On Bike Weight: Above I mentioned the GSX650's weight. And in comparison to other bikes in the 600 range - SV, GSR, Gladius, FZ6, ER6 - it's a beast. It's like riding one of the other bikes with an 80 pound coed on the back all day long. BUT, in comparison to say a C50, it's a featherweight. Plus, once you're rolling you won't be thinking... dang this thing is heavy. If you ride your GS to a dealership and take a GSX for a spin, you'll remember the power difference over any published weight difference.

Same applies to all bikes. Wet weight or Curb Mass is nice to know. But really... in the really real world of rolling two wheels, it means jack. You will most likely not notice the weight difference between a Viffer, 919 and Bandit 1250. You might notice the torque difference and how much/little you need to work gears for The Type Of Riding You Do. But really? All bikes up there will leave the GS in their dust. And a Riding Preference of one over the other will come down to Comfort and Handling - what do you feel more comfortable on and which handles better.

Comparing just the 1250 to the 919, for me the 919 is more comfortable and handles better. Yes it has less torque than the bandit but then compared to the GS which struggles in its wake, the 919 is more torquey. My impression was... if you were going to keep the GS ergonomics (how it felt when sitting on it and riding it) but make a more powerful version, it would be the 919.

Here's a comparison of some specs... the figures are Length, Wheelbase, height, width, seat height...

...... Lgth... Wlb.... Hght... Wdt... Sit
500... 2080... 1405... 1060... 800... 790
919... 2125... 1460... 1085... 750... 795
Bnd... 2130... 1485... 1095... 790... 785/805
Vst... 2295... 1535... 1395... 910... 840
MT1... 2185... 1525... 1105... 800... 825
M90... 2410... 1690... 1100... 870... 716

Which really means nothing much, as just something to show the subtle dimensional differences between the bikes. I always thought the Boulevards are just physically large bikes compared to other bikes in the same engine size/range.

Take all Your choices for a spin, multiple spins even. You can do this while your waiting - depending on weather, of course. There is no rush here.

Michael

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
I ended up riding four different bikes today. So in the order of riding them...

The first thing you notice when you mount the SV650 is the forward lean needed to reach the handlebars. While someone looking from the side might not think you are leaning forward too much, compared to the GS the lean is substantial - at least it was on the bike I rode.

Taking off, even at slow speed, you can feel the torqueiness of the engine. And giving an extra throttle twist sees the bike pull ahead nicely without sounding strained. The sound was throaty. The handlebar buzz from the Vtwin was not that great. It was there and maybe might play an issue after an hour in the seat at highway speed, but otherwise not too bad and something I'd assume you'd get used to easily. The upper body lean would be no good for those with a weaker core strength. I managed alright for the 15 or so minutes I was on the bike. But otherwise I found it a little annoying.

The worst part for me, though, was the bumpiness of the ride. Bumps the GS seems to absorb were readily transfered to me on the SV650s. That took confidence away from me and a few bends I bounced around. Big negative for me. maybe it was the way this particular bike was set up and another, different, SV650 would be different.

If you put an SM2 bar on the GS the lean angle take a ride or two to get used to. I love it...feels like I have more control. The GS was a bit bumpy for my taste before I adjusted the preload on the rear shock.

Love the review!   

Thanks Redhawk. I hope to have another up today, as a comparison.

Madjak, here's a little something to whet your whistle...

Ducati announces AMG partnership - and releases the 1200cc Diavel power cruiser http://www.gizmag.com/ducati-diavel-2011-1200cc-cruiser-power/17031/



Michael

I was looking at the 919, but the riding position is too much like the GS...too tight...I fit, but if I am going to upgrade I want more power and leg room...fuel injection is a plus, but not manditory...

The reason for no Triumph, BMW, Aprillia, etc...the closest dealers are 150kms away...I have Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Victory and Harley Davidson within 30kms...that's why I have only been looking at those brands.

The bikes I actually like is quite long...

Kawasaki Z1000
             ZR7S
             Versys
             Vulcan 900 Custom

Suzuki    V-Strom DL650
            V-Strom DL1000
            Bandit 1250S
            Boulevard M90
            Boulevard M50
            GSX650F
            Gladius
            SV650
            Katana 750
            DRZ400SM

Honda    VTX1300C
            VT1300C Sabre
            CBF1000
            919

Yamaha  MT-01
            FZ8
            Fazer 8
            FZ-1

Vicotry   Vegas 8-Ball

Harley Davidson V-Rod

Buell      XB9S
            XB12S

The downfall is that I only have $8000 to spend on a bike (depending on what my bonus is...)...so used is the word of the day...remember...Canadian market, not the States...prices are higher.

That is how the list got narrowed down to a few bikes...most of them price eliminated, others it was the riding position or vibration of the bike...

Later.

Because I know you're curious.... this is my approved list

Quote from: madjak30 on November 24, 2010, 08:05:07 PM

Kawasaki Z1000        

Suzuki   
            Gladius (feel like it would be too small of a bike for you though)
            SV650
            DRZ400SM (kinda wanting one of these myself at the moment)

Honda   
            919

Yamaha  MT-01
            FZ8 (basically an underpowered fz1, I'd approve, but really think there's no reason not to just get an fz1)
            FZ-1


Buell      XB9S
            XB12S (Yes! mine is a 9, and I love it, but I'd recommend the 12, I also only paid $3200 for mine, not sure what that is in canadian)