I don't doubt that it wasn't fast...I don't think it is meant to beat the purpose built bikes, but to be a bike that is fun to ride and quick enough to get your pulse racing...similar to the MT-01...the only real problem with this bike is the lack of center stand...that's a big reason I like the Bandit...with chain drive a center stand would be a big plus...with the M90 cruiser and shaft drive only a side stand is livable.

I would like to wait for the demo days, but I don't know if I can wait that long...plus the pricing will be better in the winter.  Maybe early spring guys will be in a hurry to get rid of their existing bike to get that new shiny toy they have been dreaming of since the bike show in Jan....

A guy can be hopeful...I still have to decide what type of bike I want...standard or cruiser...

Later.

Quote from: Janx101 on December 07, 2010, 01:43:57 PM

Quote from: Clancy on December 04, 2010, 11:00:41 PM
What about this bad boy?
Kwaka ZRX1200 - drool

eh clancy, you got a passion thing goin on for cowies bike? 

just cant help it. Dont even know what i like about them but every time i see one i drool.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 08, 2010, 07:21:57 PM
I don't doubt that it wasn't fast...I don't think it is meant to beat the purpose built bikes, but to be a bike that is fun to ride and quick enough to get your pulse racing...similar to the MT-01...

Same with the XBs and supermotos. They'd get killed on the highway, and not do so hot on a quarter mile but a normal sportbike will have a hard time keeping up with one on twisty back roads and around town where they're meant for. Fast is definitely a relative term. I can make it from one side of downtown to the other on my bicycle faster than you can on any kind of motorcycle, so it really just depends what you're looking to do with it.

Quote from: tt_four on December 08, 2010, 08:32:13 PM

Quote from: madjak30 on December 08, 2010, 07:21:57 PM
I don't doubt that it wasn't fast...I don't think it is meant to beat the purpose built bikes, but to be a bike that is fun to ride and quick enough to get your pulse racing...similar to the MT-01...

Same with the XBs and supermotos. They'd get killed on the highway, and not do so hot on a quarter mile but a normal sportbike will have a hard time keeping up with one on twisty back roads and around town where they're meant for. Fast is definitely a relative term. I can make it from one side of downtown to the other on my bicycle faster than you can on any kind of motorcycle, so it really just depends what you're looking to do with it.

Exactly...it kinda depends on perspective...if you are going to these bikes from a GS500, you will think they are wicked machines...if you are coming from a 1000cc super bike, they will be slow...I'm not looking for a bike that can do 200mph...I want a bike that doesn't slow down on hills or in the wind and has ample passing power...it also has to have extra leg room over the GS500, which I find a little tight...the fastest bike I am looking at is the Bandit then the MT-01, then the cruisers...but my biggest concern is comfort and distance between fills...I haven't had a chance to test the M90, but the Bandit and the MT-01 are both comfortable, but the Bandit has much better range...the MT-01 has more personality/attitude...the M90 has a bit of the attitude and better range...

I'm still doing research, so none are ruled out....

Later.

I was on the MT-01 forum yesterday, and they were talking about the small gas tank...one guy posted a link to a German site that makes 20L tanks for the MT-01...that would give it a more average range of 300kms (190 miles) before the low fuel warning, which is what I get with the GS...or atleast closer to it...the low fuel on the MT-01 comes on with 3L left in the tank, and I think the GS goes on reserve with 5-6L...so not quite the same, but I generally refuel when I switch to reserve...now I just have to figure out some kind of center stand for chain maintenance and my mind is made up...

Then it will be road trip time to go hunting for guys with a XB9S and show them a real bike...

Later.

I've looked into some aftermarket gas tanks in my long term supermoto research. They've all got about a 2.5 gallon tank. I can be superficial about the way a bike looks, so I'd probably keep the normal tank on and just use the extra tank if I knew I was going to be out for a while with a chance of not seeing a gas station for a while, but additional fuel is a good option to have. I think if I had a SM I'd probably just get one of those liter sized nalgene bottles or a good metal bottle that I trusted enough to keep in a backpack or strap to my rear fender so if I even ran dry I'd at least have a backup.

Now as far as your plan to harrass the good honest men riding XB9s, the MT01 makes less hp, has a lower top speed, has a wheelbase that's 8 inches longer, and weighs 155lbs more, so, good luck catching one.   

You miss the point...I think that would be half the fun...and I may know of one that wouldn't mind taking an MT-01 for a bit of a burn...you also forgot that the Buell rider may weigh 100lbs less than the Yamaha rider... I think he lives somewhere near Pittsburgh??  Google maps says 3463kms (2164 miles)...pppppfffffffttttt...no biggie...  

Okay, maybe that is a little far to harass a Buell owner...I can always pester one of the guys from ADVrider that ride a Uly...

By the way, the 20L tank doesn't seem to look any different...no big hump or extra bulges, it may just be slightly taller and go into the frame a little more...?? not sure...

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 17, 2010, 04:44:37 PM
and I may know of one that wouldn't mind taking an MT-01 for a bit of a burn...you also forgot that the Buell rider may weigh 100lbs less than the Yamaha rider...

Haha, you just upped the spread to a total of 255lbs difference between the bike/rider combo. Chances of me seeing this real bike are getting slimmer and slimmer.

Hey...might as well be honest...and don't forget the experience difference...I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be much competition for you...but it sounded good at the time    and you never know...my company is looking for some guys to move to the States to expand the business...Minot, ND...Hainesville, IL...no where near as bad for pestering Buell riders...not sure how long the riding season is there, but it has to be longer than here...too damn cold in the winter...

Later.

I took one of these for a spin today...

Kawasaki Z750, 2010 model


First, the negatives...

- Seat was hard. Not hard like a board. And I thought, I wonder if it would soften with use and getting used to it. I felt it mostly in the rear of my butt. And when I got off I pushed the seat's padding and noticed the Least amount of padding was where I felt it and there was something Hard under it, like an Edge to the seat shape or something. I can't imagine what an hour would feel like - but like I said, the foam may soften with use.

- Cornering Reluctance. Okay, this is really subjective and in comparison only. So only compared to another bike - in this case the Honda 919 I just hopped off. This isn't to say the bike doesn't corner. It does, and sweetly, just that it needed a little more work than the Honda. Maybe partly due to the reduced fork rake and maybe due to the 190 tire on the Z750 compared to the 180 on the 919.

- Clunky Gear Changes. Again, this is in comparison. Cause really, it changes nice, but not as nice as the 919 did.

- Soft front brakes. This is NOT a fault of the bike but of the brakes being set up wrong.

Positives...

- Smooth acceleration. With the 919, a twist of the throttle Lurches you forward. With the Z750 a twist send you forward in a smoother fashion with less sudden lurch. Don't get me wrong, this bike Can accelerate like nobody's business. It just does it smoother. And the engine does Not sound like it is straining even as the revs climb. Rather, the engine sounds welcoming of it. So overall, if you're mid bend and come on the throttle you won't suddenly lurch.

- No deadspot in the EFI. When you come off the throttle and then Slowly come back on, the pick up is instant. It's doesn't leave you hanging and then Suddenly BAM, a punch of fuel.

- Ease of acceleration. While not as torquey as the 919, it ain't not slouch in the acceleration department.

The riding position is Upright and you are Closer to the front of the bike than on the GS. So as you go into corners you feel kind of extra upright even if you're not really. So any sense of leaning closer to the tank feels... it doesn't feel odd but the mental impression is different, almost as if leaning forward would put you way over the tank - this is me, being 6"2 so a shorter person with a shorter body would feel different about it. And this is a first impression. Obviously this would be gotten used to.

The mirrors did not vibrate. Nothing on the bike vibrated. As I said to the salesman when I got off and he asked what I thought... man, I cannot believe how smooth that bike is.

Now, this bike has a pillion seat. But you really wouldn't take a pillion. The GS500 is 2080mm in length, the Z750 is 2096mm... only 16mm longer. Wheelbase is 1405mm for the GS and 1440mm for the Z750. So dimensionally it's similar to the GS..

The only negative thing I've heard about the bike is, the forks have one spring and one dampener. But I cannot recall if this is for a certain model or how they all are.

So for those who may be thinking of getting an SV650 or some other 600CC+ class bike, take the Z750 for a spin, you just might like it. I really had no interest but my mechanic said to take one for a spin and I am glad I did.

Michael

Quote from: madjak30 on December 18, 2010, 12:49:54 AM
...not sure how long the riding season is there, but it has to be longer than here...too damn cold in the winter...

Later.

Riding season here isn't bad. I had some nice rides into late November. Early december is manageable if you're more motivated than I am. January and February are a waste, but it picks up pretty fast in march and you usually see a 70 degree day or two before the end of the month.

Mister, great write up on that bike. I've always loved the Z1000 and Z750s. 750 is my idea engine size, but Suzuki is the only one who knows how to do it right. I just find it completely unacceptable that the 750cc version is heavier than the 1000cc version(or at least it was, haven't checked out the details lately. I understand why, they took a Z1000, sleeved down the motor, swapped out some nicer parts for cheaper(heavier) ones, and stuck it back out on the sales floor, which is fine, but unless insurance is a huge huge issue for you, I would go for the 1000 every time. Now if they could drop 75-100lbs off the bike they'd be getting somewhere. I've seen some different numbers for the weight, but they're all in the range of 455-498lbs. Considering the 1000 is 450lbs I don't see any reason the 750 should be over 430, otherwise you're just not making up for the power difference. Suzuki's new GSR750 is supposed to be 420lbs, which definitely makes the z750 look bad.

Quote from: tt_four on December 18, 2010, 09:13:21 AM

Mister, great write up on that bike. I've always loved the Z1000 and Z750s. 750 is my idea engine size, but Suzuki is the only one who knows how to do it right. I just find it completely unacceptable that the 750cc version is heavier than the 1000cc version(or at least it was, haven't checked out the details lately. I understand why, they took a Z1000, sleeved down the motor, swapped out some nicer parts for cheaper(heavier) ones, and stuck it back out on the sales floor, which is fine, but unless insurance is a huge huge issue for you, I would go for the 1000 every time. Now if they could drop 75-100lbs off the bike they'd be getting somewhere. I've seen some different numbers for the weight, but they're all in the range of 455-498lbs. Considering the 1000 is 450lbs I don't see any reason the 750 should be over 430, otherwise you're just not making up for the power difference. Suzuki's new GSR750 is supposed to be 420lbs, which definitely makes the z750 look bad.

Yep, according to bikez...

919 = 194.1 kg (428.0 pounds) dry weight - 07
Z1000 = 205.0 kg (452.0 pounds) dry weight - 07 (2010 Z1000 has a small gas tank so weight would be down again)
Z750 = 207.0 kg (456.4 pounds) dry weight - 07
Z750 = 226.0 kg (498.2 pounds) dry weight - 10
GS500F = 199.0 kg (438.7 pounds) (wet)
GSX650 220.0 kg (485.0 pounds) dry - 241.0 kg (531.3 pounds) wet

I can understand why people buy the 750, at least down here. The 750, new, is only $11k with demo bikes dropping to under $10k. While a new Z1000 is $15k (the 750s are cheaper). Plus, they seem to have a fan base. People think of them more as a Commuter - and - Weekender, while thinking the 1000 is more just a weekender.

Interestingly, the Z750 claimed HP is about the same as that of the 919 - a tad over 100. And both have a claimed top speed of 230kph (about 144mph). So obviously, for whatever reason, the Kwaka's smaller engine is putting out more horses.

Like the FZ8 being as heavy as the FZ1 and using a resleeved FZ1 motor while claiming it's a New motor, the Z750 weight compared to the Z1000 seems wrong. But for most people I don't think the weight would be noticed, or even cared about as the numbers above would show. Which must be the case considering the bike is still being sold and so far I am yet to hear a bad word about the 750 (other than the single spring thing which the average riding wouldn't know about anyway). And I've heard "The Z750, for example, sold more in France last year than all the UK Fireblades and GSX-R1000s combined."

And for Suzuki to jump in with their GSR750 clone (detuned Gixxer 750), they must feel the market is there...


Also interestingly re the weight, in the Aust Bike Sales list, the sales of the GS500F were 325 for 2010 and 324 for 2009 for the first three quarters. While the much heavier than anything else in its class GSX650 had sales of 237 and 297 accordingly, second only in the Sport Touring category to the GS500F.

But I know what you mean... that depsite the difference for the average Joe being nothing to write home about, just knowing what they did to get to the 750 is annoying.

Michael

Seriously....what ever happened to the true naked bikes? Why is everyone copying each other with these transformer style clones of each other? I think that it is only the Yamaha XJR1300 keeping it real now........

I think the idea is that people are tired of naked bikes being considered budget/beginner bikes. Just because they don't want a fairing doesn't mean they don't still want something aggressive and fast. The best way to do that is just to make naked bikes more like supersports without the fairings. They're still not even, but I think that's why they look the way they do. That Yamaha is a good looking bike for what it is, but it doesn't loko fast, and it doesn't look light at all. That's the kinda bike I'm gonna have 20-30 years from now as I hope to god that I never decide I'm ready for a cruiser. It's definitely nut enough to satisfy the naked bike market though, even with as small as it is.

Even looks aside, you're still looking at a steel backbone frame with an air/oil cooled motor, conventional forks, dual rear shocks and analog gauges. I didn't even know that anyone still sold bikes like that aside from the GS, and I'll be amazed if they're still selling that bike for more than another year or two. It looks like it might even be caburated, but it's hard to tell from the picture.

The XJR has EFI. And it Is a heavy bugger at 540# (245kg wet) - alloy piston, ohlins shocks, double cradle steel frame. BUT, it's air cooled - sheesh.

But even Honda's new 1100F with its retro Harley-esq look is air cooled. WTF.

It seems, what they call Naked these days is really semi naked. Just a faired bike with the side fairings removed as they still keep that cutting front nose shape instead of the retro round headlight look - like the Z750 and Z1000, FZ8 & FZ1. GSR750.

Looking at a Yamaha 2010 Model booklet the other day, no FZ6s in there. XJ6 for the learners and that was it. But I am led to believe you can still buy FZ6s due to their overproduction. But why would you when for the same $ you can get other more powerful bikes.

The prob with getting a retro looking bike with water cooling and the same engine as the more sporty - not supersport, just sport version - would require a big leap of faith from the manufacturers. And non are really willing to make that leap of faith cause a production run that doesn't sell would mean someone gets the arse. From the more affordable jap bike makers that is. And those companies figure, if you want fast, you want faired cause otherwise the wind will be a killer. 

If you want retro-ish naked, watercooled, fast bike, you''re looking at expensive European brands like the MV Augusta Brutale 910 with 101kw or 989 with 104kw


Or Bimota's Delirio


But these bike will cost you big time - if you can even get them in your country.

Kawa, Yam and Suz all make their naked sports with the Modern look (Z750 and Z100, GSR750, FZ8 and FZ1). Honda it seems has abandoned that market all together.

So really, fast naked new is the Z750, Z1000, GSR750, FZ8 and FZ1 - and Honda 919 2nd hand for a retro watercooled quick bike. Not a big selection at all.

Michael

Honda still has the cb1000r which looks pretty decent.



I love those MVs. Pretty much my dream bike, aside from the fact that it's too sweet for me to be willing to ride it the way it should be ridden, plus I can't get over the I4 in the bike. I'm ok with I4s, but that bike should have a Vtwin, it just should. For the brief period that HD owned MV and Buell at the same time, they should've made another Brutale with the 1125 motor.

In reference to the cb1000r and the z750 though, I am getting pretty tired of seeing companies using those frames on all their naked bikes. I'm very pleased that kawasaki put a real frame on the new z1000. I know they do it because they want the motor to stick out as that's half the appeal of a naked bike, but still. I think the main reason kawasaki started from the beginning on the z1000 instead of just stripping down the zx10r is because the zx10s motor is almost completely covered by that massive frame, so they wanted you to still be able to see some of it. It's not a huge deal for me because I always just buy used bikes, so it's actually cheaper for me to buy a normal faired sportbike with some damage to it because it drops the price way down, and I can just pull them off and toss them in the trash anyway. Then I'm left with my ideal naked bike that's still fast, light, has great suspension/components, but doesn't have any more plastic than it needs.

Now on the plus side, the way manufactures handle naked bikes still makes it fun to strip bikes down and see what you can come up with. As great as it is that companies like Triumph and Buell have made naked bikes that are the same bike just without the plastic, it takes any suspense out of making a naked bike out of it. I've seen plenty of streetfighter builds where guys started with daytona 675s, and literally all you end up with is a street triple with a different headlight regardless of how much work they put into it.

Was watching a video today and the narrator said... of the 100,000 bikes sold in Europe so far this year (whatever the year was) Kawasaki has sold 6,000 Z750s.

If I'm not mistaken the Z750 is Not available in the USA either. So if Suzuki brings their GSR750 into the US, they could be selling to a relatively untapped market. And they'd be trying to muscle in on the action in Europe.

It looks like the only market the GS500 is sold in now is Canada, USA, Aust & NZ, as the bike cannot meet EU emissions standards. So while the Aust/US emissions standards might allow the bike in at the moment, at some point the bike won't be able to be sold here/there either. So the writing is certainly on the wall for it over the next few years.

And speaking of chopped up naked versions of a faired bike.... presenting the BMW S1000rr like you've never seen it before...









Michael

I like the gray on a bit. That gold color has just never sat well with me, and I'm not crazy about the aprilia tuono headlights that are huge and stick out way too far. Sure it would be a fun bike to ride though!

One good thing about the gsr750 is the lack of competition, but unfortunately it's also got a lack of a market to deal with. The SV650 did well as a beginner 600 or just a cheap sportbike, and some bigger ones do ok from guys who have outgrown the supersport thing but still want a bigger bike. The 750 would have to fit into that spot of people who still want a decently fast and sporty bike, but one that doesn't really work well with the beginner crowd. I picture it as a bike for people who have ridden some 600+ bikes before, still want something fast, without fairings, but not 1000cc freight train tire eating fast. I think that market pretty much consists me just me. The only flaw in that plan is that I don't really buy new bikes anymore, so it really doesn't matter what Japan puts out there. I'm still just gonna find a random bike and make it into what I want.

What about the FZ8? Isn't that supposed to be in the US? That would be some competition for the gsr750, although the Suzuki would clearly be the better bike, in my opinion.

Quote from: tt_four on December 22, 2010, 11:33:43 AM
The 750 would have to fit into that spot of people who still want a decently fast and sporty bike, but one that doesn't really work well with the beginner crowd. I picture it as a bike for people who have ridden some 600+ bikes before, still want something fast, without fairings, but not 1000cc freight train tire eating fast. I think that market pretty much consists me just me.

Me too...Me too!   

Quote from: redhawkdancing on December 22, 2010, 11:54:15 AM

Quote from: tt_four on December 22, 2010, 11:33:43 AM
The 750 would have to fit into that spot of people who still want a decently fast and sporty bike, but one that doesn't really work well with the beginner crowd. I picture it as a bike for people who have ridden some 600+ bikes before, still want something fast, without fairings, but not 1000cc freight train tire eating fast. I think that market pretty much consists me just me.

Me too...Me too!   

Ditto

And... I'm pretty sure we all like the ZRX1200, right?

Well... what if it had a Busa inner?

I present....

The KAWABUSA - a ZRX look powered by Busa stuff inside...



Michael