Saw this in another thread, and it thought it might spur some interesting discussion:

Quote from: The Buddha on November 21, 2010, 04:21:23 PM
Welcome ... and I cannot tell you cos these guys will bash the crap out of me ... but a gs makes a poor choice for a short beginer.
Is there a reason you didn't buy a kawi vulcan 500 or a virago 535 or a suzuki savage ?
Cool.
Buddha.

Not bashing the poster at all, but while this quote may be true for male riders, I'm not so sure it applies to female riders (of whom I know a fair number).  Seems that the different female center of balance makes many cruisers, even low ones, not as stable or as reassuring to ride.

For example, Mrs. Bad Example (5'2", 29" inseam, 115 lbs.) could not start or stop a Savage comfortably at all; her experiences actually set back her moto-riding-desire by 20 years.  However, she's just fine on her GS500.  Apparently it was a combination of cruiser geometry and forward-set pegs; though she could flatfoot the Savage, the swinging of feet to and from the footpegs made the moto seem twitchy and unstable.

I know at least two other females, both veteran riders, who report the same impression.

On top of that, many of the typical cruisers weigh more than their standard/sport counterparts, which is also an issue for the women I know; they don't seem to like heavy-feeling bikes.

I would say that an ex250 may be better for a female. My mom had trouble on my gs, and found it very uncomfortable. She got an '01 ninja and absolutely loves it. I couldn't explain why, but maybe the gs isn't as good as the ninja for females? And as far as cruisers: no. Too hard to maneuver, heavy, and not very girly either. Ninja 250's are viewed as pretty girly in my opinion, and there has to be some reason behind that.

Quote from: redhenracing2 on November 22, 2010, 09:46:18 AM
I would say that an ex250 may be better for a female. My mom had trouble on my gs, and found it very uncomfortable. She got an '01 ninja and absolutely loves it. I couldn't explain why, but maybe the gs isn't as good as the ninja for females? And as far as cruisers: no. Too hard to maneuver, heavy, and not very girly either. Ninja 250's are viewed as pretty girly in my opinion, and there has to be some reason behind that.

I think the reason she feels better on the Ninja is the weight difference...there is an 80lbs dry weight difference between the bikes...the Ninja is water cooled, so the actual wet difference won't be as big, but still quite a difference...as for the cruisers for shorter/lighter riders...a 250cc cruiser (I checked the Rebel and Virago 250) weigh about the same as the Ninja, but as soon as you go to a 500cc or 650cc cruiser you are higher than the GS500 weight, but the seat height is lower (easier to get both feet down) and the weight is lower in the bike...should be easier to pick up if dropped...but they don't turn as well, or have the same performance level (braking and accelleration)...

It's going to be the same as everyone else...depends on the rider...their preference to style and what feels comfortable to them...

Later.

Actually a savage is one weird puppy. Its super super low, its the lowest bloody thing out there IMHO. However in stock configuration, its hard to steer and the weird buckhorn bars make it painful as well.
I'd not put the others in the same bucket. The vulcan 500 and virago 535 are light/neutral steering bikes, and the rebel 250/450 is even more so.
Cruisers are lower Center of gravity, but comparing them to a GS isn't quite fair. The gs is lighter than all the rest except the savage. The savage has a published weight of 342 lb. The vulcan has to be compared to the ex500 really.
Anyway debate on ... I've owned and ridden the all of em, GS is by far the easiest beginner sport bike, but its not the ideal short person bike.
Cool.
Buddha.

Even if it's light and small, I always thought the GS felt kinda top heavy, even after being used to riding a 380lb 600cc bike, which are typically thought of as tall and top heavy.

Quote from: MysterYvil on November 22, 2010, 09:20:53 AM
For example, Mrs. Bad Example (5'2", 29" inseam, 115 lbs.) could not start or stop a Savage comfortably at all; her experiences actually set back her moto-riding-desire by 20 years.  However, she's just fine on her GS500.  Apparently it was a combination of cruiser geometry and forward-set pegs; though she could flatfoot the Savage, the swinging of feet to and from the footpegs made the moto seem twitchy and unstable.

My first thoughts are, "not enough throttle" and "tensing up the grip on the bars".  The latter being a very important habit not to have for a beginner.  I, too, have ridden the Savage (a 4-speed model) and agree that it is not a very rider-freindly bike.  The GS has a control layout, the face-forward, predator/aggressor position of being in control.  And, that position will lend itself well to increasing the confidence of the rider.

Also, having ridden an older 250 Rebel ('86), I do not agree that this bike is a good handling bike, nor neutral.  It consistently had the front-end flop into turns even with an adequate amount of throttle.

Quote from: scratch on November 22, 2010, 12:09:24 PM
The GS has a control layout, the face-forward, predator/aggressor position of being in control.  

Well said- while the seat height and weight are definitely cons (compared to the Nighthawk and Blast that I learned on, haha) for the shorty petite that I am, I definitely feel confident on the GS.  Having my feet set a little farther back also helped- but that just might be more because I'm athletic and like that sporty feel. 

Since I first started riding, I noticed the increased muscle definition in my hands, arms and shoulders- I'm wondering if some women feel unstable/twitchy on some bikes because of the natural lack of upper body strength.  Yes, I've seen the the youtube videos of 4 foot nothing tall, spindly armed, 80 year old hags cruising around a cone, and that it's not all about strength and size, but seriously, I guarantee that my confidence would boost 500% if I gained a twelve inches and 50lbs of muscle.  Looking back, I'm personally glad that I did not learn on a GS.  I'll still hop on the Nighthawk once in a while when I haven't ridden in a while to focus myself- those fabulous drum brakes remind me to brake early! 

-K

My other half is 5'6" 120 pounds and has no hassles on the GS.  Her bike is a 250 Bandit which is slightly lower in the seat and significantly lighter.

Quote from: Adfalchius on November 22, 2010, 09:42:23 PM
... and that it's not all about strength and size, but seriously, I guarantee that my confidence would boost 500% if I gained a twelve inches ...

I'm not going to add anything constructive to the conversation; I just wanted to take that quote out of context, agree with it, and laugh hysterically.

Ok I lied. I suspect the neutral seating position of the GS trumps height issues for some folks and not for others...and there's always lowering links.

Yeah, yeah, thank you Danny- the thought crossed my mind as I was typing that to rephrase.  Oh well  .

Interesting how the guys seem to always "know" what are best for us females! How about we decide. The man in my life wanted me on a cruiser for my first bike but I detest them then he thought that a Katana would be great. I went to the dealership where Flick just looked like a poor little puppy needing a home. I sat on him felt great I could flat foot it no problem. I went home did some research it got good talk about it so went back the next day and Flick was mine. Went and did the MSF the next two days and rode my new bike to  my house. Practiced there a day or two went out in the area and was on I-4 within 2 weeks and I've never looked back.

I love my Flick. I did ride his honda shadow 750 aero once. Didn't like how it felt killed my back, and hated the forward controls!

Mary

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on November 30, 2010, 11:16:33 PM
Interesting how the guys seem to always "know" what are best for us females! How about we decide. T

Young King Arthur was ambushed and imprisoned by the monarch of a neighbouring kingdom. The monarch could have killed him, but was moved by Arthur's youth and ideals. So he offered him freedom, as long as he could answer a very difficult question.

Arthur would have a year to figure out the answer; but, if, after a year, he still had no answer, he would be killed.

The question was: What do women really want?

Such a question would perplex even the most knowledgeable man, and, to young Arthur, it seemed an impossible query. Since it was better than death, however, he accepted the monarch's proposition to have an answer by year's end.

He returned to his kingdom and began to poll everybody: the princess, the priests, the wise men, even the court jester.

In all, he spoke with everyone but no one could give him a satisfactory answer. What most people did tell him was to consult the old witch, as only she would know the answer. The price would be high, since the witch was famous throughout the kingdom for the exorbitant prices she charged.

The last day of the year arrived and Arthur had no alternative but to talk to the witch. She agreed to answer his question, but he'd have to accept her price first: the old witch wanted to marry Lancelot, the most noble of the Knights of the Round Table and Arthur's closest friend!

Young Arthur was horrified: she was hunchbacked and awfully hideous, had only one tooth, smelled like sewage water, and often made obscene noises.

He had never run across such a repugnant creature. He refused to force his friend to marry her and have to endure such a burden.

Lancelot, upon learning of the proposal, spoke with Arthur. He told him that nothing was too big of a sacrifice compared to Arthur's life and the preservation of the Round Table. He relented, their wedding was proclaimed, and the witch answered Arthur's question:

"What a woman really wants is to be able to be in charge of her own life."

Everyone instantly knew that the witch had uttered a great truth and that Arthur's life would be spared. And so it went. The neighboring monarch spared Arthur's life and granted him total freedom.

Lancelot and the witch were wed and Arthur was torn between relief (for his saved life) and anguish (for the horror his friend must now endure).

The wedding night approached. Lancelot, steeling himself for a horrific night, entered the bedroom. What a sight awaited! The most beautiful woman he'd ever seen lay before him! Lancelot was astounded and asked what had happened. The beauty replied that since he had been so kind to her (when she'd been a witch), half the time she would be her horrible, deformed self, and the other half, she would be her beautiful maiden self.

She asked him which would he want her to be during the day and which during the night?

What a cruel question!

Lancelot began to think of his predicament: during the day a beautiful woman to show off to his friends, but at night, in the privacy of his home, an old spooky witch? Or would he prefer having by day a hideous witch, but by night a beautiful woman to enjoy many intimate moments?

What would YOU do?

What Lancelot chose follows below, but DON'T read it until you've made your own choice.

scroll down...

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Noble Lancelot replied that he would let her choose for herself. Upon hearing this, she announced that she would be beautiful all the time, because he had respected her and had let her be in charge of her own life.

What is the moral of this story?

The moral is that it doesn't matter how attractive or smart your woman is or isn't, if you try to control her life, things will get ugly.

Michael

Only one word will fit as a reply to that...

AWESOME!!!

That is a great Friday e-mail...

Later.

Excellent!!  Can we sticky that story?   

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on November 30, 2010, 11:16:33 PM
Interesting how the guys seem to always "know" what are best for us females! How about we decide.

Exactly why I started this thread.  My input has been solicited by a fair number of women in regards to "what moto is right for me," but my impressions (as a guy) only go so far.

[And if there's one thing I've learned from 20 years of marriage, definitely let your partner make her own decisions!]

Loved it Mister good story     

All of my professions and it seems hobbies are male dominated and sometimes I get ticked off a little to easily. Esp, when playing online guys cannot believe that they just got their a$$ handed to them by a woman.

Mary

Interesting...the moral I got from that story was; It doesn't matter if your woman is pretty or ugly ... underneath it all she's still a WITCH.

Quote from: fraze11 on December 06, 2010, 12:48:24 PM
Interesting...the moral I got from that story was; It doesn't matter if your woman is pretty or ugly ... underneath it all she's still a WITCH.

Guess he won't be getting any for awhile 

Mary

Lower gearing and torque are good for beginners.  A light clutch is also nice.  My bike seems to require a lot of forearm.  I haven't ridden many others for a long time.