What is it about the education system that does not teach people about the law of supply and demand.
I am constantly hearing about people who studied some thing or other, the last few years its culinary school but before that for a good 7-8 years it was CSI, and they cant get a job, worse yet they take out 1000's in fact I know of one who got 45K in debt to do a useless degree that several million people have and the demand for that skill is somewhere near 500 per year.

I really think its a conspiracy.

Then there is the college costs sky rocketing ... the reason its sky rocketing is because people take out insane loans to go to college to study whatever, in fact the focus isn't even on what they are studying, its on the fact that they are in "college". College costs have shot up cos tons of loan programs have appeared and worse yet, colleges send letters to students telling them to ask their parents to borrow big sums of $. Absolutely sleazy if you ask me.

Kill all the loan programs, all of them, not even where your parents borrow on home equity, in fact I'd like to see a section about their kids ages and what not in loan apps so they can be withdrawn when the kids approach college age. I actually think colleges then would send letters to students asking them to see if they have any single relatives who can borrow $.

Why are medical costs sky rocketing - single reason insurance. Worse yet, insurance isn't paying the doctors, it only makes doctors pad the numbers so if you didn't have it you're screwed.
I got a statement a few days ago, apparently my doctor billed them 150 for a visit, the negotiated rate is $40, my deductible was 30 and they paid 10, and for that privelege it cost me 900 bucks a month. If the doctor was happy with 40 bucks, I'd like to see a sign that says "doctor exams $40". That would have cost me an extra $10 at the visit, and I'd have saved $900 not buying insurance. WTF  ...

Anyway we need to kill the middle men, else we are doomed. I'd like to make "negotiated payment" between doc and insurance illegal.
Then I'd also make all medical establishments post prices, insurance or no insurance that is the price. This negotiated amount BS is like someone knowing a secret word and that determines their price. It should be illegal. We will then see what happens to "sky rocketing medical costs".

And the ad that tell people to ask questions @ the doctor ... stupid and dishonest. The question I would ask - where is the price list. @ a restaurant where the girl fires 1000's of questions - she has the menu in her hand. I would simply ask, where is your menu @ the doctor.

Cool.
Buddha.

If you don't like the way your insurance is, why don't you get a Subscription Doctor?

Some are more pricey than others - depending on their guarantees and whether they offer home visits or not. They all LIMIT their customer numbers and won't see you Unless you are a Subscriber.

Michael

Check your universities.
I now go to the University of Washington sports medicine clinic and just switched to their dental clinic (after 30 years, my dentist was set in his ways). The price is cheaper, they take insurance. The only downside is some procedures require more visits because they have students watch a learn, so they do less on each visit. But they are the best and cutting edge medical care.

They key is shop around.

I saw 3 doctors for my tendon before someone suggested the UW Sports Clinic.

I was seeing a chiropractor. He charged like 50 dollars and with deductible I paid like $41 a visit. If I paid CASH, no insurance, $35 a visit.  When I pointed that out - never again did he say "well see you again in 2 weeks". Yep - caught him at his own money game and that turned him off. Never went back to him. Relied on the gym and my personal trainer. Never felt better. (Is it time for another "picture on your GS in your underwear" in the picture game?)

The problem is college tuition is too high.  You have people graduating from college with $100k+ in student loans and THEN trying to find a job.  Supply and demand then dictates who can get a job and how much said job pays.  I went to pharmacy school ($35K per year) for four years before transferring to do something I enjoy a lot more.  My new job pays about 1/4 of what a pharmacist makes.  If it wasn't for scholarships I would have over $150K in student loans.  I have good friends that are licensed pharmacists that cant find a job. Some of them have upwards of $170k in student loans to pay back.  When I entered school there was a dire shortage of pharmacists and now there are too many.  Some of my friends are screwed.

The problem is that in order for universities to attract smart accomplished professors they have to offer a salary that is semi comparable to what the professors could make in their chosen profession.  This drives up their salary and therefore the cost of the University. 

Also you have the kids that just want to go to college to party, pick an easy/generic degree plan because they don't care, and rack up a hefty debt.  I could go on and on about this rant but I'm going to stop now before it gets excessively boring.

Quote from: jlog65 on April 21, 2011, 07:45:21 PM
The problem is that in order for universities to attract smart accomplished professors they have to offer a salary that is semi comparable to what the professors could make in their chosen profession.  This drives up their salary and therefore the cost of the University. 

Eh, no. Most college teachers are adjuncts, and make less than $40K a year. With PhD's. Teaching costs are not the issues.

Massive facility costs and college-as-a-luxury-good have driven the cost base up. That, and maintaining exclusivity, have started this whole arms race, and the Feds kicking in loans for all have just exacerbated the problem.

If you want to go to college, 1st look at the US BLS and see what it pays and the outlook. Then shop college tuition just like you'd buy a MC. +1 for state schools that your taxes are already paying for.

Or come to Australia on a Student Visa  

Michael

What I don't get is, why does everyone have to go to college?  Work for a few years first and figure out what you want to do first...I know lots of people that are stuck in a career that they hate, but they went through the college years...racked up the loans and now have to work at those jobs that aren't quite what they thought it would be...

Go work for a temp agency and try everything...try the trades...then after a couple/few years of transient working...pick the one you enjoyed, or atleast disliked the least and go into that field...whether it is college or working your way up the ladder...don't just pick a career because the pay is incredible...most jobs can pay quite well...

I know a welder that makes over $700,000 per year...he started out as a welders helper, got his ticket...worked for a while then bought his first welding truck...paid it off and bought another one, hired a guy to run the first one...etc, etc...he now has 10 trucks and he is about 45...he worked hard to get there, but it didn't take him long to start making a six figure income...(oil field welding rigs bill out at $145/hr)

You can do that sort of thing with almost anything...start working at a DQ mopping the floor, work your way up to shift manager, then manager...buy your own franchise, then a second one, third, fourth...I know a guy that did it with A&W...at the peak he owned 15 of them...sold 14 of them, and now his son has just bought the last one from him...(my dad's friend, son was my buddy when we were kids)...oh yeah...A&W dad retired at 45...rough life...not to say he didn't work hard to get there, but to not worry about money by 45...nice...he started as a waiter in a steak house...

You don't need college to make it...just determination...

Later.

Mad,

I've mentioned this before somewhere, though now seems pertinent again...

I went to uni and while there did some hypothetical sums...

If I leave now and all I make is $25k, by the end of my four year course I will have made $100k.
If I stay and with a degree get a $30k (only $5k more) - and if - incomes never change, it will take me 20 years of working to make up the lost $100k. NOT Including the repayments of student loans incurred during my four years.

I left. I left cause I figured doing uni actually puts me behind the eight ball.

I've met young people of today that Were at uni, took a bit of time off to work as a Laborer on Construction sites and now won't go back - cause - the money they are making as a laborer is better than what they could have made with their degree working in an office.

Michael

Anybody read "Best of Craigslist"? This thread reminded me of this post:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/1619190174.html

Great topic. Hey Buddah, you might like this - the Ozzie government here intends to have 40% of our youngsters at uni within the next few years. 'Course this won't have any dumbing down impact on qualification quality - not. We'll have the best qualified burger-flippers in the world, though.

Highest spending student I've ever encountered in Oz was a top bloke from Moscow doing an English course at a crappy little school who was costing his Mum in Russia a self-reported $120,000 per year in tuition, living, and fun, fun, fun, expenditure...I do not kid you guys. I visited his flat and I met some of his chicks.

On a side-note, I sometimes wonder what would happen to tertiary education if everyone took a gap-year at the same time...but thats just the old 60s hippy me ruminating again.

i cant get to work anymore due to health. still in debt for student loands. ( forbearance.)  health is failing. cant hardly walk. etc. ER is pointless to go to , they slap a bandaid on it. and shake me for loose change before sending me home with a thousand dollar bill and kidney problems they do nothign for. cant aford teh doc that buddha talksabout. no money. i dont qualify for food stamps cause im male and white. i cant get medicaid because im male. ( requirements in stae 9 out of ten state have to be female. ) cannot afford to move to a medicaid friendly state. because of no money. i keep the net up because i can use it to scrape together enough money to eat on. have wounds on left foot, and on both legs, bilateral neuropathy, kidneys at reduced function, foamy urine etc. sometimes none at all for a day. yet ER wont do shaZam!. 4500 in debt because of that. only way they will do anythign is if everythign shuts down. which isnt far from doing. i can no longer use my mmi training for employment at dealerships because i legally cannot ride a moto. illegally otoh . really only thing that works for me are my eyes. which are perfect. only way i can get help is to well code out. like i almsot did last time in 07. but if it happens again, they may not restart. and ems has been to my home 8 times in a month, body is goin funky with the insulin. theyre like if we must ocme again, then you ARE going. been persuing disability for 14 mos now. cant hardly walk lol i need to get a bicycle. but cannot afford one. anyhoo i want to go back to school and find somethign i can do. my first choice is as a watchmaker. i do this as it is already. but wish to gain my certifications  so i can work on somebodies rolex or high end wristwatch. sitting up becomes a chore after 30 minutes as well. so im f%&ked. lol st barack tightened up the social security rules. according to ssa. cant get help until it goes through. sometimes i wish it was over to be honest.  but again i dont.  tired of being what i consider lazy. idk maybe it will improve. education is key in some ways. but yes buddha CSI crap is funny. or online programs to be a cop. or another one i see for people online to train to be firefighters. how the f%$k ? these "worthless degrees are laughable. friend was goin  after a csi degree. i said before you commit, look out there see how many jobs are available around here. for that, then look nationwide many are laughingt cases of ¿¡ LOLWTFLMFAO ¼ bs and ½ lol = all WTF idk anymore lol ♥♦♣♠

I use very little of what I learned in college for my job. My environmental law classes helped and maybe some chemistry but most of my college experience came from working with the school's environmental department as a senior which transitioned into a job when i graduated. Im now somewhere else but it was my work experience that got me here, not the degree so much. College opens doors simple because without the degree people will toss your resume in the trash, so at least hold you back a few pay grades.

Im in position right now that sucks. I can advance at work to a more important role as Radiation Safety Officer, however i dont have the educational credentials (masters) to do so but am fully capably of doing the job due to my experience in the field. 

Quote from: madjak30 on April 21, 2011, 09:51:23 PM
I know a welder that makes over $700,000 per year...he started out as a welders helper, got his ticket...worked for a while then bought his first welding truck...paid it off and bought another one, hired a guy to run the first one...etc, etc...he now has 10 trucks and he is about 45...he worked hard to get there, but it didn't take him long to start making a six figure income...(oil field welding rigs bill out at $145/hr)

That's the story of of family... they run subcontractor outfits with ~15 people, and do quite well. You get stuck in a geography, but things are predictable.

I wanted more freedom to move around. I went to college; split undergrad costs between parents and me in engineering. Got subsequent employers to pay for graduate degrees in engineering, then business. It was a lot of work. Today, I'm making about as much as the entreprenuers in the family, and wonder if it was really worth it, or if I should have opened a commercial glass shop instead. Main advantage is I get to travel around, and the work is intellectual... Of course that means I'm dragging my kids to different school districts all over the country, and that has to stop at some point. Be careful what you wish for.

Yeah, I'm not a good example...I went to a technical college mostly because that is what my parents expected of me (and I wanted to be able to say I went)...Electronics Engineering Technologist sounded pretty cool...it was a two year program, and in the third quarter of the program I failed a couple of courses (too much beer, not enought studying)...so I dropped out and applied for the next September to pick up the missed courses (some were pre-requisites for fourth quarter study), but that eight months off didn't help my study habbits much...I made it through the third quarter, but only because I only had to concentrate on the things I missed on the first pass...flunked a few courses in the fourth quarter...I didn't want to get another student loan for another year of study, so I went and got a job...actually went through a few of them...ended up in retail, met my wife...moved around had a kid...then decided retail management really sucked (compensation for the overtime was non-existant)...so that is when I went to trade school...within two years I was making more money than I was as a manager, and that was at 70% of journeyman rate at the time...

I was stuck with student loan payments for 10yrs for an education I never used, the management part of my retail experience has helped me more than my education...but now all is good and I make a decent living...

Find something you enjoy and find a niche market...

Later.

Quote from: mister on April 21, 2011, 09:26:30 PM
Or come to Australia on a Student Visa  

Michael

He he, many many americans do that, not just to Australia but to france and spain and what not and they pay the american school fees to have the credits earned in france to be valid.

I have an even better plan for my son. He is an OCI - Overseas citizen of India, and as such I'm plannign to have him in school in India. Guess what, I studied there and I learnt enough mechanical, electrical and computer crap while in civil engineering school to easily walk into a manufacturing facility and feel right @ home, and I work as a software engineer doing the really hard jobs and making it look easy. Of course that could be cos I am addicted to chaos, hence where there is a lot of chaotic crap, I'll thrive. Anyway this BS about professors etc, total BS, colleges build new buildings democlising perfectly good 10-20 yr old buildings and rack up debt via mis-management. Again they borrow.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on April 22, 2011, 08:13:38 AM

Quote from: mister on April 21, 2011, 09:26:30 PM
Or come to Australia on a Student Visa  

Michael

He he, many many americans do that, not just to Australia but to france and spain and what not and they pay the american school fees to have the credits earned in france to be valid.

I have an even better plan for my son. He is an OCI - Overseas citizen of India, and as such I'm plannign to have him in school in India. Guess what, I studied there and I learnt enough mechanical, electrical and computer crap while in civil engineering school to easily walk into a manufacturing facility and feel right @ home, and I work as a software engineer doing the really hard jobs and making it look easy. Of course that could be cos I am addicted to chaos, hence where there is a lot of chaotic crap, I'll thrive. Anyway this BS about professors etc, total BS, colleges build new buildings democlising perfectly good 10-20 yr old buildings and rack up debt via mis-management. Again they borrow.
Cool.
Buddha.

Sounds like our govt Eh? your son knows tamil right?  you mentioned teaching him somehtign in that language/dialect. so hed be right at home.  wish there was a way to weed out or least list, bullshit degrees certificates on a website. not making it slanderous either. or opinionated. but taking a degree/cert. crosschecking it by jobs available etc