Trey has a steering problem. When cold, he's OK. After riding and everything heats up, he likes to torn left or right. When riding, feels like randon cross winds or like riding over metal grating on a draw bridge. You drift back & forth.

Certain things have been eliminated:
Front suspension: new springs
New tire
Rim is straight
Tires are proper pressure and hold pressure just fine (both front and rear)

Since it only shows up after riding and things heat up could it be:
1. Defective tire? Weak spot when hot?
2. Steering column bearings get sloppy when the steering column is warmer?
3. Front wheel bearings: expand and get sloppy when hot?

The other odd thing is, when it is doing it, and you go slow or slow to a stop, he really wants to turn (either direction) and wants to try to fall over.

The only other thing that effects the ergonomics of the bike is the PO replaced the rear shock with a Kat. So the rear is a couple inches higher, which reduces the angle of the front fork to the pavement, which would effect steering (which is why the front fork of any bike is at an angle. Funny when you see ancient bikes with the front fork straight up & down).

Things I'm going to try:
1. Replace stem bearings
2. Can replace wheel bearings if #1 doesn't work
3. Put original shock & dog bones back on so rear is back down where it should be (also comparing rear to Suzi and Junior so I'm not blindly saying the rear is up higher - it really is ) which will put more angle between the front end and the pavement, if #1 and #2 don't fix the problem. (Also I can see the angle of front shocks to street is less on Trey than the other 2 bikes AND since we did replace the fork springs, we do know the fork is straight and not bent at all.)
4. Lastly - have dealer replace tire as everything else as been tried.

Any thoughts on this one?

Has the bike ever been down? Since the frame is in pieces maybe a section gets loose when it heats up, causing alignment issues.

I can re-check that when the engine is hot. The PO did install SW Motec engine bars, so maybe those need re-tightening and only shows up when hot. The only bolt-on piece of frame I recall is the lower right front piece. I can check those bolts, too, when hot. But that would only effect the engine mounting. The steering column is welded to the main frame. It could be possible it is a problem with the rear end and something loose due to the change of the shock, but the feeling is coming from the front in the steering. I do not feel any wavering of the rear end at all. Can't be the swing arm bolts as it was removed and put back on to replace the chain with a nearly new factory chain and it did it before and after (just doing some thinking of things it can't be).

I got Trey when recovering from surgery so never got to ride him before we changed the wheels and had new tires put on. I haven't done a complete check of every bolt. There are some rattles when going over bumps so this weekend, even though garage still under construction, I'll do a complete check of all  bolts in the carport.

Plans to hoist him up and replace the stem bearings fell through for this weekend so I'll tighten everything I can that doesn't require any assistance. Anyway, I have Junior and Suzi to ride this weekend so its not like I'm without a bike. And I have some parts that need painting and buffing now that we have a day in Seattle without rain.

Any other things I should check on?

Wheel bearings are probably your best bet, that or maybe you have a warped front brake rotor and it's intermittently dragging on the caliper?

Possibly bearings.
I doubt the rotor as it is not a tugging feeling. It is a squishy feeling that wants to turn and in fact, wants to turn whichever way you might be tilting when going slow or stopped. Gyroscopic balance is not there since the wheels are not rotating. Sloppy bearings would tend to let the wheel flop - so if slightly tilting left, the bottom of the wheel would slip to the right (due to the wheel tilting a little) making you go MORE to the left. Does that make sense? And vice-versa. Wheel bearings check OK when the tire was put on but the rim and bearings are used. They could be sloppy when they heat up and the outer ring of the bearings expands. Your idea of wheel bearings now seems to make the most sense. One person described Trey as having aggressive steering - always turns really right or really left. Difficult to do a slight easy turn. Again, sloppy wheel bearings could cause that feeling?

I've got stem bearings on hold that I pick up Saturday at the Suzuki Owners Club meeting. If I don't have any wheel bearings, I'll get those too. Trey is a 1994 which seemed to have a period of poor maintenance so it wouldn't hurt to replace the stem bearings anyway since I know he has been dropped. If I don't have any wheel bearings, I'll pick up a set, too. Replace everything and make it all new. How do I know lack of maintenance? When I oiled the chain, all the O rings swelled up and the chain became a stiff piece of crap. That's why he has a (nearly) new chain (which came off a 2008 with 240 miles on it in a box-o-bolts from Pinwall. Perfectly like-new chain!)

Put it on the centerstand and have someone push down on the back seat to lift up the front wheel. Try shaking the fork back and forth - should be solid. Try wiggling the wheel side to side - should also be solid. This might help determine if the bearings have issues.

Mixing radials and bias ply tires?

Rear tire is good...?

A new tire being bad is possible (not too likely....but...). A bad tire will give you that feeling but  it would feel that way from the start.

Your steering geometry can be a big part of it.... the rake angle (and less trail ) now  lowered makes the steering more  responsive (ie unstable...).

Double check everything.....Good luck.

Kind of a dumb thought here, but have you tried relaxing your grip a bit?

I have 3 GS500's. I ride all of them - sometimes riding one to the gym and switching bikes to run to the store (Suzi has a carrier bag for groceries, Junior is just so cool looking). Trey is the new guy and I know a steering problem when I feel it. Others have ridden him and noticed the same problem.
If I was a newbie with one bike, maybe grip is something I would have to learn.

Not mixing tires either - all 3 bikes have the exact same stock factory brand tires (what are they - Bridgestone Battleaxe or something?) . The tires on Trey and Junior are new (maybe 200 miles on Trey, maybe 600 miles on Junior). Suzi's are the ones that came with her - new - and have less than 4k miles.

A raised tail would have the same effect as dropping the front, making it less stable as the forks would approach 90 degrees to the street. The tail is raised now due to the Kat shock and whatever dog bones the PO put on (the original factory shock & mount came with the bike in a box of parts). It is not lowered. Just guessing, normal angle between street and fork is around maybe 60 degrees and trey is clearly 5 or so degrees more meaning the fork is more vertical and as you approach 90 degrees (straight up and down) you get less stability.

Problem is less since we changed fork springs (basically he had none - they were so worn out - the front end dropped down so low). That raised the front, moved the front wheel out a little more like it should be, reducing the angle between the fork and the street. That made it better and takes longer for the problem to get really noticeable. So it still is looking like bearings heating up and getting sloppy or tire heating up and going soft.

I know on track bikes they raise the rear to make the bikes tip into corners better. As you stated it may just be that the steering feels more responsive on Trey than the others. I also notice that some tyres seem to follow ruts in the road worse than others. But then again you say you have the same on all three bikes. Let us know when you got it figured.

Sounds like steering head bearings or possibly a bias ply tire on the front and radial rear or vice versa.

I didn't say you lowered the front end.I said you now have a lowered rake angle ( closer to vertical ). That will make the bike want to turn in ( fall in..) quicker. I think that is probably the majority of your handling "issue".
  Longer dogbones ( if it wasn't done already ) will help you get the rear down a little bit with the longer shock.

Swap a front tire off one of the other two bikes perhaps and see if anything changes to rule out tires/ wheel bearings etc.

Way back when I got my 97 GS I tried a couple 130/90 rear touring tires which raised the rear about 1" and made the steering noticeably quicker.  I liked it that way but the bike didn't, it wanted to go around corners faster than those tires did.  I got real good at catching a rear end breaking loose with those tires and then went back to sport touring tires.  Raising the rear 1" reduces the rake 1 degree, do the math.  I had used the touring tires on my old Hondas getting great milage.

A few years later when I was running a 140/80 AV46 sport touring radial rear tire on that same 97 GS which raised the rear a similar amount and I then replaced a MEZ4 front sport touring radial with a BT010 supersport radial front I got similar to what you are getting now.  Loss of straightline stability at slower speeds, wanted to wander left and right but was OK at higher speeds.  The combined raised rear and much more responsive front tire was the cause.

As far as the temp afecting your problem it's probably due to the tire pressure increase that comes with the temp increase.  Could be a little less front tire air pressure would affect it positively.

Aside from the front fork, check out the rear swingarm for compliance / bearings. Put it on center stand after it's warmed up and see if the rear wheel feels solid for twist / lateral.

I don't think the Kat shock is causing the issue (I did this swap with no issues like this) but there may be something else lurking back there.

Quote from: gsJack on May 20, 2011, 07:14:53 PM
Way back when I got my 97 GS I tried a couple 130/90 rear touring tires which raised the rear about 1" and made the steering noticeably quicker.  I liked it that way but the bike didn't, it wanted to go around corners faster than those tires did.  I got real good at catching a rear end breaking loose with those tires and then went back to sport touring tires.  Raising the rear 1" reduces the rake 1 degree, do the math.  I had used the touring tires on my old Hondas getting great milage.  I don't recall how much the Kat shock raises the rear.

A few years later when I was running a 140/80 AV46 sport touring radial rear tire on that same 97 GS which raised the rear a similar amount and I then replaced a MEZ4 front sport touring radial with a BT010 supersport radial front I got similar to what you are getting now.  Loss of straightline stability at slower speeds, wanted to wander left and right but was OK at higher speeds.  The combined raised rear and much more responsive front tire was the cause.

As far as the temp afecting your problem it's probably due to the tire pressure increase that comes with the temp increase.  Could be a little less front tire air pressure would affect it positively.

Haven't you experimented with lowering links?

Quote from: noiseguy on May 20, 2011, 07:17:01 PM
Aside from the front fork, check out the rear swingarm for compliance / bearings. Put it on center stand after it's warmed up and see if the rear wheel feels solid for twist / lateral.

I don't think the Kat shock is causing the issue (I did this swap with no issues like this) but there may be something else lurking back there.

I too have a Kat shock and have never had issues.It raised the rear of my bike roughly 1.5 inches.I did notice a bit quicker feel to the steering, but nothing me or my tires can't handle.

Quote from: Jared on May 20, 2011, 06:23:52 PM
I didn't say you lowered the front end.I said you now have a lowered rake angle ( closer to vertical ). That will make the bike want to turn in ( fall in..) quicker. I think that is probably the majority of your handling "issue".
 Longer dogbones ( if it wasn't done already ) will help you get the rear down a little bit with the longer shock.

Swap a front tire off one of the other two bikes perhaps and see if anything changes to rule out tires/ wheel bearings etc.

I think we're speaking of the same but just using different terms. When the front springs were shot, the front dropped down and that will change the angle. So it was worse. Swapping wheels is an option. Just have to wait another week for the garage to get done so my bike-cave is ready to work on trey properly. I think I have an extra wheel and tire still around that came with Trey so I might be able to try that without taking a wheel off of Junior or Suzi. I'll keep you posted on what I find. Thanks for the tips.

also, I'm not really saying a Kat shock is bad, just I don't know what the PO did so the dog bones might be wrong. I do know the shock is adjusted for a heavier person so it is too stiff for my weight. He was taller and heavier, so a few extra inches taller and an extra 50 pounds of a rider can make the bike ride different.

Tried different pressure with little difference. also monitored pressure cold and when warm with little difference in pressure. Trey also came with a monster of a rear tire that cleared the brake swing arm by less than a quarter of an inch. That with no front springs and a different shock makes for one messed up suspension. Now the tires are new and the stock size.

I think I have enough to go on now. Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll report what the end result is.

Twisted forks

Michael

Quote from: ben2go on May 20, 2011, 08:07:24 PM
Haven't you experimented with lowering links?

I put a set of Pingel ZX6 links on that lowered my 02 rear about 1 1/4" about 49K miles ago and they are still on it now.  I've run oversize rear tires that raise the rear 1/2 to 3/4" since then so I have a net rear lowering of about 1/2 to 3/4" only.  I slid the forks up in the tripples about 1/2" so I'm really runing close to a normal GS500 attitude, the whole bike is just a half inch or so lower.  Had my annual physical earlier this month and I'm now 4" shorter than I was when I bought my first GS 12 years ago.      I've got another set of links on hand that will lower the rear another half inch that I may put on next year and I'll drop the front another !/2" too if I put them on.

Quote from: gsJack on May 20, 2011, 09:41:15 PM

Quote from: ben2go on May 20, 2011, 08:07:24 PM
Haven't you experimented with lowering links?

I put a set of Pingel ZX6 links on that lowered my 02 rear about 1 1/4" about 49K miles ago and they are still on it now.  I've run oversize rear tires that raise the rear 1/2 to 3/4" since then so I have a net rear lowering of about 1/2 to 3/4" only.  I slid the forks up in the tripples about 1/2" so I'm really runing close to a normal GS500 attitude, the whole bike is just a half inch or so lower.  Had my annual physical earlier this month and I'm now 4" shorter than I was when I bought my first GS 12 years ago.      I've got another set of links on hand that will lower the rear another half inch that I may put on next year and I'll drop the front another !/2" too if I put them on.

Kool.Thanks.