Quote from: Twisted on April 30, 2011, 03:49:26 PM

Quote from: The Buddha on April 30, 2011, 04:13:44 AM
Yea my SV also needs about 160F ...

I ride off the GS 30 seconds after starting it on a day where it is 10 whopping degrees.

Are there any EFI air cooled bikes out there ... think about it ... yea ... nope.
Why - hotter motors ironically work better with leaner mix, leaner mix = hotter motor ... see how that vicious cycle will end.

Cool.
Buddha.

Yep Buddha, the Ducati Monster 2 valve engines are all air cooled EFI from 2000 - 2007

not a bike, but porsche was using EFI air cooled engines in the 911 series (911, 964, 993) from 1969 until 1998

Quote from: Roxtar on April 30, 2011, 04:32:03 PM

Quote from: Twisted on April 30, 2011, 03:49:26 PM

Quote from: The Buddha on April 30, 2011, 04:13:44 AM
Yea my SV also needs about 160F ...

I ride off the GS 30 seconds after starting it on a day where it is 10 whopping degrees.

Are there any EFI air cooled bikes out there ... think about it ... yea ... nope.
Why - hotter motors ironically work better with leaner mix, leaner mix = hotter motor ... see how that vicious cycle will end.

Cool.
Buddha.

Yep Buddha, the Ducati Monster 2 valve engines are all air cooled EFI from 2000 - 2007

not a bike, but porsche was using EFI air cooled engines in the 911 series (911, 964, 993) from 1969 until 1998

suzuki tu250x air cooled EFI too,
sorry buddha, just noticed this thread.

The biggest step for making a GS500 FI is the correct parts, what fits in the stock boots as far as throttle bodies and the like... it would basically be designing a ITB setup for a race car, map sensors, timing, engine temp, and IAT would all need to be measured, Injectors need to be sized right to run at 60-80% then the ignition system needs to be upgraded to something more modern say a MDS or a corvette COP system (if a corvettes COP system can handle 10-11k rpm). Then the fun begins, you need a wideband o2 sensor (your putting all this money in might as well go wideband) so you can tune it properly. Then you move to tuning, megasquirt would probably be the best ECM but custom ones for hondas or other bikes might work. Programing would take a dyno to be truly right and then your done...

I have been looking into FI my 89.My bike's are not an investment for me.I will not sell my 89 GS and plan to keep the bike until I am dead,then pass it on.I'm also not a beginner rider as I have been riding for 18 years on road.I have had nothing but carb issues with all 4 of my GS500, and I know how to clean,rebuild, and adjust them properly.I'm 100% positive I could get 5 to 7 more HP and a little more torque.Maybe more since I will be using the "computer" to control both fuel injector timing and ignition timing.I have researched this extensively as I do not do hack jobs.The main issue is mounting the throttle bodies.The closest ones that will fit (01-03 GSXR600), and flow enough air, will not fit in the GS intake boots.Throttle bodies have to have a notch in the top of the intake boots to allow the injector to spray the fuel into the intake tract.Using the boots for the 01-03 GSXR600 38mm throttle bodies can be done but a clocking ring is need to mount the intake boots to the GS head.The GS intake boots are clocked at roughly 45 degrees from vertical and the GSXR are vertical.The motorized secondary buttery flies will need to be removed from the GSXR throttle bodies and the shaft holes need to the filled or the TBs need to be cut down.Once this is worked out,then it's on to dealing with the fuel supply.An external mounted 1999 Hayabusa inline fuel pump will handle fuel delivery,but the GS will be lacking charging capabilities.A stator and rotor can be reworked to put out more power.I've already look into a local company for this mod.The only changes to the ignition is the elimination of the CDI or ignition module/box.The dual crank triggers/pickups will be used to let the "computer" know where the valve timing is to fire the appropriate coil.Luckily the GS is a 180 degree parallel twin engine.This makes the ignition easier to set up and tune.Hotter aftermarket ignition coils could be used.I don't really see a need for it unless the compression ratio is raised or force induction is used.O2 sensor will mount in the header pipe on the number 1 cylinder just above the cross over pipe.The rest is just wiring in the sensors.

Here is some of the resources I used.
http://www.microsquirt.com/
http://users.hal-pc.org/~dhutch/

Quote from: ben2go on July 15, 2011, 05:01:20 AM
I have been looking into FI my 89.My bike's are not an investment for me.I will not sell my 89 GS and plan to keep the bike until I am dead,then pass it on.I'm also not a beginner rider as I have been riding for 18 years on road.I have had nothing but carb issues with all 4 of my GS500, and I know how to clean,rebuild, and adjust them properly.I'm 100% positive I could get 5 to 7 more HP and a little more torque.Maybe more since I will be using the "computer" to control both fuel injector timing and ignition timing.I have researched this extensively as I do not do hack jobs.The main issue is mounting the throttle bodies.The closest ones that will fit (01-03 GSXR600), and flow enough air, will not fit in the GS intake boots.Throttle bodies have to have a notch in the top of the intake boots to allow the injector to spray the fuel into the intake tract.Using the boots for the 01-03 GSXR600 38mm throttle bodies can be done but a clocking ring is need to mount the intake boots to the GS head.The GS intake boots are clocked at roughly 45 degrees from vertical and the GSXR are vertical.The motorized secondary buttery flies will need to be removed from the GSXR throttle bodies and the shaft holes need to the filled or the TBs need to be cut down.Once this is worked out,then it's on to dealing with the fuel supply.An external mounted 1999 Hayabusa inline fuel pump will handle fuel delivery,but the GS will be lacking charging capabilities.A stator and rotor can be reworked to put out more power.I've already look into a local company for this mod.The only changes to the ignition is the elimination of the CDI or ignition module/box.The dual crank triggers/pickups will be used to let the "computer" know where the valve timing is to fire the appropriate coil.Luckily the GS is a 180 degree parallel twin engine.This makes the ignition easier to set up and tune.Hotter aftermarket ignition coils could be used.I don't really see a need for it unless the compression ratio is raised or force induction is used.O2 sensor will mount in the header pipe on the number 1 cylinder just above the cross over pipe.The rest is just wiring in the sensors.

Here is some of the resources I used.
http://www.microsquirt.com/
http://users.hal-pc.org/~dhutch/

That sounds extremely thought out, but you may want to go dual wideband if your that into it, cause if number 2 cylinder is out of whack from a clogged injecter, loose wire, back spark plug, loose throttle body, etc, itll be harder to find out, being your reading out the number 1 cylinder...

also keep in mind, the voltages drop on our bikes at idle, it may be a non issue, but in the auto world, when the voltages drop due to a dying alt or battery, the ecm goes haywire. Now, idk if it would be an issue or not with a bike aftermarket, but you may want to look into solid batteries with a larger amperage rating, or even a capacitor for the feed to the ecm.

Im interested in this to see if you can make it work.

Quote from: xunedeinx on July 15, 2011, 05:09:57 AM

Quote from: ben2go on July 15, 2011, 05:01:20 AM
I have been looking into FI my 89.My bike's are not an investment for me.I will not sell my 89 GS and plan to keep the bike until I am dead,then pass it on.I'm also not a beginner rider as I have been riding for 18 years on road.I have had nothing but carb issues with all 4 of my GS500, and I know how to clean,rebuild, and adjust them properly.I'm 100% positive I could get 5 to 7 more HP and a little more torque.Maybe more since I will be using the "computer" to control both fuel injector timing and ignition timing.I have researched this extensively as I do not do hack jobs.The main issue is mounting the throttle bodies.The closest ones that will fit (01-03 GSXR600), and flow enough air, will not fit in the GS intake boots.Throttle bodies have to have a notch in the top of the intake boots to allow the injector to spray the fuel into the intake tract.Using the boots for the 01-03 GSXR600 38mm throttle bodies can be done but a clocking ring is need to mount the intake boots to the GS head.The GS intake boots are clocked at roughly 45 degrees from vertical and the GSXR are vertical.The motorized secondary buttery flies will need to be removed from the GSXR throttle bodies and the shaft holes need to the filled or the TBs need to be cut down.Once this is worked out,then it's on to dealing with the fuel supply.An external mounted 1999 Hayabusa inline fuel pump will handle fuel delivery,but the GS will be lacking charging capabilities.A stator and rotor can be reworked to put out more power.I've already look into a local company for this mod.The only changes to the ignition is the elimination of the CDI or ignition module/box.The dual crank triggers/pickups will be used to let the "computer" know where the valve timing is to fire the appropriate coil.Luckily the GS is a 180 degree parallel twin engine.This makes the ignition easier to set up and tune.Hotter aftermarket ignition coils could be used.I don't really see a need for it unless the compression ratio is raised or force induction is used.O2 sensor will mount in the header pipe on the number 1 cylinder just above the cross over pipe.The rest is just wiring in the sensors.

Here is some of the resources I used.
http://www.microsquirt.com/
http://users.hal-pc.org/~dhutch/

That sounds extremely thought out, but you may want to go dual wideband if your that into it, cause if number 2 cylinder is out of whack from a clogged injecter, loose wire, back spark plug, loose throttle body, etc, itll be harder to find out, being your reading out the number 1 cylinder...

Microsquirt will control each cylinder's injection and ignition timing separately.I will use wide band o2s.You're right.I will need dual O2s.

also keep in mind, the voltages drop on our bikes at idle, it may be a non issue, but in the auto world, when the voltages drop due to a dying alt or battery, the ecm goes haywire. Now, idk if it would be an issue or not with a bike aftermarket, but you may want to look into solid batteries with a larger amperage rating, or even a capacitor for the feed to the ecm.

The guy I talked to locally,said that he could rework the rotor and stator to put out more power.With a newer style regulator,it will charge from just off idle.I know all about the lack of charging on the GS below 3000 to 3500 rpm.I killed a battery when I got my first GS because I was lugging the bike in town to keep the noise down.

Im interested in this to see if you can make it work.
Me too.I have been planning and researching for two years on this.Then Bowling Grippo discontinued Microsquirt in order to start production of a new version of Micrsquirt.IIRC,the new version will log data to an SD card which will be extremely useful on a motorcycle.I'm waiting to see what other changes are being made before I start hording parts away.

Well, I honestly have about...oh... 2 months motorcycle experiance, but spent more then half my life (im almost 24) on cars, im willing to lend a hand if you need it, even if its brainstorming!

Anyone ever think of taking the easy way out?

In the 80's, before efi, and after carbs, they used Throttle body injection.

basically, stuck an injector in the carb, hooked a trigger onto the crank, and called it a day. All you had to do was raise or lower the fuel pressure to "tune"

interesting brainstorming going on here. I have nothing to add but a lot to learn, I am in

Quote from: xunedeinx on July 15, 2011, 05:58:55 AM
Well, I honestly have about...oh... 2 months motorcycle experiance, but spent more then half my life (im almost 24) on cars, im willing to lend a hand if you need it, even if its brainstorming!

Anyone ever think of taking the easy way out?

In the 80's, before efi, and after carbs, they used Throttle body injection.

basically, stuck an injector in the carb, hooked a trigger onto the crank, and called it a day. All you had to do was raise or lower the fuel pressure to "tune"

There would be a lot of fabrication involved in doing single TBI.You'd need an intake manifold,a plenum,and a small enough TBI.The performance results would be about the same as carbs if that good.Going with dual TBI makes for a neater smaller package.If you use Microsquirt for FI only, and dual throttle bodies,it's set up the same way the older GM TBI systems were and most of the sensors I will use are GM.Money aside,doing the conversion isn't the hard part.It's the tuning.Luckily, enough people have already done other bikes with 180 degree crank offset.So it's just a matter of using they're tune and tweaking it to fit the GS.I found a shop over in town that has a dyno.Normal it's not open to the public because they use it strictly for the racing dirt bikes they build.After telling them what my plans were,and giving them the machine work on another engine I'm building,They agreed to give me a dyno day once I have everything closely dialed in.

Quote from: ben2go on July 15, 2011, 11:10:52 AM

Quote from: xunedeinx on July 15, 2011, 05:58:55 AM
Well, I honestly have about...oh... 2 months motorcycle experiance, but spent more then half my life (im almost 24) on cars, im willing to lend a hand if you need it, even if its brainstorming!

Anyone ever think of taking the easy way out?

In the 80's, before efi, and after carbs, they used Throttle body injection.

basically, stuck an injector in the carb, hooked a trigger onto the crank, and called it a day. All you had to do was raise or lower the fuel pressure to "tune"

There would be a lot of fabrication involved in doing single TBI.You'd need an intake manifold,a plenum,and a small enough TBI.The performance results would be about the same as carbs if that good.Going with dual TBI makes for a neater smaller package.If you use Microsquirt for FI only, and dual throttle bodies,it's set up the same way the older GM TBI systems were and most of the sensors I will use are GM.Money aside,doing the conversion isn't the hard part.It's the tuning.Luckily, enough people have already done other bikes with 180 degree crank offset.So it's just a matter of using they're tune and tweaking it to fit the GS.I found a shop over in town that has a dyno.Normal it's not open to the public because they use it strictly for the racing dirt bikes they build.After telling them what my plans were,and giving them the machine work on another engine I'm building,They agreed to give me a dyno day once I have everything closely dialed in.

Makes sense. Well once you decide to take the plunge, make a thread in the projects section! Im willing to lend my mind to the cause if I can.

-Justin

I agree.  I'm not against having an FI bike, but every bike I've ever owned has carbs and I've had very little problem with them overall.  Riding a bike frequently is the best way to keep the carbs working well.  Don't give them a chance to get gummed-up!  

If you're looking to change your GS over to FI, consider this.  The stock GS's main impediment in the intake/exhaust system is the heads.  This means without getting your head ported and polished you won't gain significant power no matter what else you do, not counting laughing gas, of course!

Quote from: bill14224 on July 15, 2011, 03:24:40 PM
I agree.  I'm not against having an FI bike, but every bike I've ever owned has carbs and I've had very little problem with them overall.  Riding a bike frequently is the best way to keep the carbs working well.  Don't give them a chance to get gummed-up!  

If you're looking to change your GS over to FI, consider this.  The stock GS's main impediment in the intake/exhaust system is the heads.  This means without getting your head ported and polished you won't gain significant power no matter what else you do, not counting laughing gas, of course!

Speaking of Porting and Polishing. I got a guy that can do this. Ship your heads and intakes to him. He does all my pitbike motor work and he builds some awesome xs650 motors. He said he would love to get into the gs500 motor. Terry is his name and Firepowerminis dot com is his website.  terry@ the firepowerminis dot com is his email too. Good guy. His phone number is listed on his site.
I am not affiliated with him, he has just done a bunch of top rate work for me.

Quote from: bill14224 on July 15, 2011, 03:24:40 PM
I agree.  I'm not against having an FI bike, but every bike I've ever owned has carbs and I've had very little problem with them overall.  Riding a bike frequently is the best way to keep the carbs working well.  Don't give them a chance to get gummed-up! 

If you're looking to change your GS over to FI, consider this.  The stock GS's main impediment in the intake/exhaust system is the heads.  This means without getting your head ported and polished you won't gain significant power no matter what else you do, not counting laughing gas, of course!

That may have to be done to accept the clocked GSXR intake boots.The thottle bodies I plan to use are 38mm and I believe my 89 GS carbs are a mere 33mm.However the ports in the GS head are slightly bigger than the GS carb boot inside diameter.I'll measure everything when time comes.

Quote from: pookiebear on July 16, 2011, 06:47:22 AM

Quote from: bill14224 on July 15, 2011, 03:24:40 PM
I agree.  I'm not against having an FI bike, but every bike I've ever owned has carbs and I've had very little problem with them overall.  Riding a bike frequently is the best way to keep the carbs working well.  Don't give them a chance to get gummed-up! 

If you're looking to change your GS over to FI, consider this.  The stock GS's main impediment in the intake/exhaust system is the heads.  This means without getting your head ported and polished you won't gain significant power no matter what else you do, not counting laughing gas, of course!

Speaking of Porting and Polishing. I got a guy that can do this. Ship your heads and intakes to him. He does all my pitbike motor work and he builds some awesome xs650 motors. He said he would love to get into the gs500 motor. Terry is his name and Firepowerminis dot com is his website.  terry@ the firepowerminis dot com is his email too. Good guy. His phone number is listed on his site.
I am not affiliated with him, he has just done a bunch of top rate work for me.

Thanks for the info.I have a racing dirt bike shop with full machine shop services that is working with me through an engine build and the FI conversion.

Quote from: bill14224 on July 15, 2011, 03:24:40 PM
Riding a bike frequently is the best way to keep the carbs working well.  Don't give them a chance to get gummed-up! 

Can you explain this? Why would riding a carbed bike more frequently help?

Because the biggest problem for carbs is old gasoline. It sticks, stains, and gums up the insides of carbs.

Quote from: cksheppard on July 16, 2011, 10:35:42 PM

Quote from: bill14224 on July 15, 2011, 03:24:40 PM
Riding a bike frequently is the best way to keep the carbs working well.  Don't give them a chance to get gummed-up! 

Can you explain this? Why would riding a carbed bike more frequently help?

Quote from: Big Rich on July 16, 2011, 11:53:07 PM
Because the biggest problem for carbs is old gasoline. It sticks, stains, and gums up the insides of carbs.

Quote from: bill14224 on July 15, 2011, 03:24:40 PM I'm not against having an FI bike, but every bike I've ever owned has carbs and I've had very little problem with them overall.

Agree, agree, agree!!!  I've put 160k miles on 2 GS500s and never touched a carb.  My current 02 has about 88k miles on it now and never ran better.  The time spent on messing with your carbs could be better spent riding it.  Don't mess with your carbs and they won't mess with you.

FI? heard it all before, I will believe it when I see it, until then its nothing but talk 

Carburetors and Sta-Bil, more dependable than FI