Hey guys,


My bike is a little overdue for it's 600 mile tune up (the warranty expired a long time ago, previous owner boxed it up nearly new). I'm not exactly retarded when it comes to these things so I figured I'd do it myself.

My problem is, which motor oils are safe? I ran up to the local Pep-Boys and couldn't spot any good oils that didn't have friction modifiers. I wasn't sure about the 10W-40 Valvoline Conventional Oil because I couldn't easily identify it as one lacking friction modifiers and was definitely staying away from "high mileage" oils and other oils with detergents and add-ins.


What do you guys typically use? I'm in a hot, arid climate (Las Vegas, NV), but it gets incredibly cold in Winter. I'd rather not pay for motorcycle oil if I don't have to. It's basically car oil without any add-ins, and they tend to charge you more (at least here) for the "motorcycle" in the title.


Also, I'm planning on replacing the stock oil filter with the K&N High performance oil filter (KN-133) and was curious if anyone else has done this, if it's worth the extra cash, and more to the point, what the hell the extra O-Ring is for.


Thanks in advance for your advice!

Shell Rotella T 15W-40 heavy duty aka diesel aka truck oil.  Has JASO-MA rating and costs about $12-14 a gallon around here.  I've used it for 110,000+ GS500 miles year around here in NE Ohio.

The diesel oils ( 15-40 ) are the best bet but any 10-40 automotive oil will do the trick, none of the 10-40 standard brand oils have friction modifiers. I have a friend with an old Kaw KZ1000 with 170,000 miles, he bought it new and has never used anything but the cheapest Walmart 10-40 automotive oil. It's still going strong and does 85 miles a day 5 days a week.

Quote from: ojstinson on September 02, 2011, 08:19:43 PM
The diesel oils ( 15-40 ) are the best bet but any 10-40 automotive oil will do the trick, none of the 10-40 standard brand oils have friction modifiers. I have a friend with an old Kaw KZ1000 with 170,000 miles, he bought it new and has never used anything but the cheapest Walmart 10-40 automotive oil. It's still going strong and does 85 miles a day 5 days a week.

True that. The important thing is regular service intervals.

Awesome! An oil question. So glad you asked this. It's so important but no-one ever asks about oil here at all...

So first let me say...

Ignore everything you read in this thread and do what the hell you want to anyway with whatever oil floats your boat. Buy the cheapest cruddiest honey colored slime you can get your hands on and use it. 

Second, understand that the clutch is either smooth or clunky because of the oil.

Third, I'll tell you what *I* use. I suggest not using it cause it's not cheap. It's not common. And it's motorcycle oil and you'd rather not pay for that. But I mention this for other people who may be wondering the same thing but who don't need to buy cheap non-motorcycle oil as a prerequisite. So...

My bike originally came with Motul 1000. About the cheapest most basic Motul oil you can get. I used the same for its first service at 1,000km and again at 6,000km. I had regular false neutrals and trying to push the bike around in gear (with clutch in) when cold was not possible. At the 12,000km service I put in Motul 5100. The false neutrals disappeared - this is also the oil used by my local Suzuki Dealer. I liked this oil. Then I discovered the Motul 300v at my 36,000 service. And I again used it for my 42,000km service. I can now push the bike around in gear (clutch in) and barely feel gear changes at all. This stuff is silky smooth. BUT, it costs your first born.

A word of warning... When you take off the oil filter cover and put it back on, do NOT overtighten the bolts otherwise they will snap. Now you know this, after you have overtightened them and snapped them despite the warning, be sure to come here and ask how to remove the snapped bolt from the block. 

Michael

Quote from: mister on September 02, 2011, 11:28:45 PM
Awesome! An oil question. So glad you asked this. It's so important but no-one ever asks about oil here at all...

So first let me say...

Ignore everything you read in this thread and do what the hell you want to anyway with whatever oil floats your boat. Buy the cheapest cruddiest honey colored slime you can get your hands on and use it. 

Second, understand that the clutch is either smooth or clunky because of the oil.

Third, I'll tell you what *I* use. I suggest not using it cause it's not cheap. It's not common. And it's motorcycle oil and you'd rather not pay for that. But I mention this for other people who may be wondering the same thing but who don't need to buy cheap non-motorcycle oil as a prerequisite. So...

My bike originally came with Motul 1000. About the cheapest most basic Motul oil you can get. I used the same for its first service at 1,000km and again at 6,000km. I had regular false neutrals and trying to push the bike around in gear (with clutch in) when cold was not possible. At the 12,000km service I put in Motul 5100. The false neutrals disappeared - this is also the oil used by my local Suzuki Dealer. I liked this oil. Then I discovered the Motul 300v at my 36,000 service. And I again used it for my 42,000km service. I can now push the bike around in gear (clutch in) and barely feel gear changes at all. This stuff is silky smooth. BUT, it costs your first born.

A word of warning... When you take off the oil filter cover and put it back on, do NOT overtighten the bolts otherwise they will snap. Now you know this, after you have overtightened them and snapped them despite the warning, be sure to come here and ask how to remove the snapped bolt from the block. 

Michael

Pretty sure that I can find Motul around here, and if it cures cancer and wards off demons like you claim it does I'm willing to spend more. I want quality. My argument against it is most motorcycle oil around here is relabeled car stuff.


Since my bike is around ~830 miles would Motul 5100 be good for it? Also, I can pick up a purolator filter here. I've heard good things about purolator filters, my question is - which one would work with a 2006 GS500F? I can't find anything conclusive on Google, and I'd rather not guess-and-check an oil filter.

Damn!----- Now why didn't I think of that!!------ All the poor guy really wanted was for someone to give him a smart ass answer ending with the suggestion that he pay $8.00 a quart for overhyped MC oil.

I need to make a note of that for next time.

Dr, I believe it was GSNoober that has cut open every oil filter made for the GS500. IIRC, he said they are all crap.

That's the best advice I have. Oh- and that "extra" o-ring is actually to replace your current one.

Quote from: ojstinson on September 03, 2011, 12:27:27 AM
Damn!----- Now why didn't I think of that!!------ All the poor guy really wanted was for someone to give him a smart ass answer ending with the suggestion that he pay $8.00 a quart for overhyped MC oil.

I need to make a note of that for next time.

I suggested NOT to buy it. Sheesh.

Make sure you know where to refind the note you make. Otherwise I'll have to come back and remind you 

Now he has other knowledge, yeah? Now he (or anyone else reading this thread) can make a more informed decision based on what's out there. Cheap diesel oil, any old Walmart oil or super expensive Motul stuff which may or may not be relabeled car oil.

@Dr.McNinja I would think Motul 5100 would be fine for your bike. I don't know if it's relabeled car oil, relabeled Caltex oil, or if they have their own "refinery". Their Wikipedia page doesn't really say - apart from them being the first lube maker to use ester technology and that they were Founded in 1853 in New York as a subsidiary of John D. Rockefeller's New Jersey's Standard Oil.

Before opting for a car oil, consider something called Shear. The idea being, car oils do not go through a gear box like motorcycle oils do. Anyway. Have a read of this page to add to your knowledge bank. All About Motor Oil

Anything that helps you make a more informed decision is a good thing.

Michael

Quote from: Big Rich on September 03, 2011, 12:32:43 AM
Dr, I believe it was GSNoober that has cut open every oil filter made for the GS500. IIRC, he said they are all crap.

That's the best advice I have. Oh- and that "extra" o-ring is actually to replace your current one.

Thanks for the plug, Big Rich... this is what I wrote about oil and filters in that thread:

As for the "best" oil and oil filters, I'm NOT going to open that can of worms right now. I'm sure you'll find suggestions as you read various sections of this forum, and others might be willing to provide you with recommendations from their own experience. FWIW, I use Shell Rotella-T Synthetic oil in ALL of my motorcycles AND in my car and truck; I use whatever sh!tty oil filter is available (usually FRAM CH6000) when I buy the oil. Unfortunately, the lousy FRAM filter is about as good as anything else you'll find; I've been dissecting oil filters for many years now (I participated in an oil-analysis program about 30 years ago, so I got into the habit of cutting oil filters open). The truth is, ALL of the filters currently available for the Suzuki engines are basically one notch above JUNK, which is ANOTHER good reason to check and change your oil religiously. The quality of filter media varies greatly in spin-on oil filters; the media used for internal filters is just about universally inferior. If there is a QUALITY internal filter available for the GS500, I haven't found it yet.

Just follow the owner's manual...


It says 10-40.....any 10-40 is ok......

Oils which say "energy conserving" or similiar, on the little "badge lable" are no good as they contain friction modifiers...(the lower viscosity oils, used in modern cars...like 5W 30 have friction modifiers and the "energy conserving badge"....don't use ..

10-40 does not contain friction modifiers...

Oddly I just went to Advance Auto just last night to buy oil for the GS......Oil took a big price increase around here lately...most "major" brands are around $5.39 a quart (for 10-40 dino oil)...

Advance had Valvoline MOTORCYCLE 10-40 for $4.99 ... so I got that.  IF you buy into the idea the MOTORCYCLE oil is different (and it is) and necessary (it isn't) this is a great deal.......motorcycle dealers typically charge a lot more for motorcycle oil....$6 ~$9 a quart... and even more for synthetic..

If money is tight.....You can use Walmart "super tech" 10-40 if you want and get it for like $12 for a 5 quart jug....


Cookie

Mister----Not to be a smartass myself, but I was just wondering why many Japanese car and small truck makers specifically require the use of plain old ordinary 10-30 or 10-40 motor oils in their manual transmissions if shear is such a problem? We're talking about some pretty hefty pressures involved  in gears pushing around a few thousand pounds of car and cargo for 30 to 60 thousands miles between changes. I've heard tales of some standard Hondas and Toyotas getting upward of 400,000 miles on the original transmissions.

If a guy can get 170,000 miles---and counting---out of 10-40 walmart oil ( changing it every 2000 miles ), just how bad can it be?-----How many of you out there are planning on putting anywhere close to that many miles on any bike anyway?

Changing your oil at regular intervals is more important than what oil you use 

Now, this is funny. Flick has always had the zuki oil in him being that I bought the maintainance plan with him. A couple of months ago I needed to fill him up and didn't have the usual stuff. I grabbed the Bf's 10w-40 Honda mc oil and put it in him. He was not a happy guy I got false neutrals constantly! I think the little shiate new and just wanted to give me a hard time. Of course this is all subjective in the psychological sense and I well know Flick can't read lables but he acted that way LOL.

BTW milk is the best whole not that skim milk water though!

Mary

Quote from: Big Rich on September 03, 2011, 12:32:43 AM
Dr, I believe it was GSNoober that has cut open every oil filter made for the GS500. IIRC, he said they are all crap.

That's the best advice I have. Oh- and that "extra" o-ring is actually to replace your current one.

Well i knew that part. I should've specified, in the k&n filters it comes with two o-rings. One goes to the oil filter cover, is the second a spare? I noticed the k&ns had them but the canister purolators didnt even have orings to swap out!

Quote from: GSnoober on September 03, 2011, 02:31:24 AM
I got into the habit of cutting oil filters open). The truth is, ALL of the filters currently available for the Suzuki engines are basically one notch above JUNK.........The quality of filter media varies greatly in spin-on oil filters; the media used for internal filters is just about universally inferior.

The truth???......Really??.....so even the OEM filters are junk??......Can I ask how and on what basis did you come to this conclusion and what benchmark you use to judge filter performance??.......Or is it just a personal opinion??

BTW...has anyone on here actually suffered a serious engine problem as a direct result of the oil grade/make and make of filter used???

Quote from: ojstinson on September 03, 2011, 03:53:22 AM
Mister----Not to be a smartass myself, but I was just wondering why many Japanese car and small truck makers specifically require the use of plain old ordinary 10-30 or 10-40 motor oils in their manual transmissions if shear is such a problem? We're talking about some pretty hefty pressures involved  in gears pushing around a few thousand pounds of car and cargo for 30 to 60 thousands miles between changes. I've heard tales of some standard Hondas and Toyotas getting upward of 400,000 miles on the original transmissions.

If a guy can get 170,000 miles---and counting---out of 10-40 walmart oil ( changing it every 2000 miles ), just how bad can it be?-----How many of you out there are planning on putting anywhere close to that many miles on any bike anyway?

I have noticed in the Owners manuals, the recommendation is always for the manufacturer's Brand of oil. As gsjack shows, Suzuki recommends Suzuki oil. The Honda I owned many years ago I'm pretty sure recommended not only Honda oil but specifically Honda Chain Lube. And the Kawasaki I owned before that, well I don't recall what it recommended. Maybe I need to read my 919 manual again but cannot find what oil to use under the sections marked Engine Oil, but it does say only us a Honda Filter.

A car mechanic one said to me, even though the owner manual says to change the oil every 10,000km you should do it every 3,000km to 5,000km if you Really want the engine to last.

I don't think the engines have advanced that much since, say the 80s, to suddenly only need an oil change every 15,000 or 20,000 or 30,000 clicks. But the availability of oils which don't appear to lose their viscosity as soon as you put them in the engine, are certainly more readily available now, but not back then.

So for the same engine protection, the cheap Walmart Oil Needs to be changed every 2,000 clicks while the Motul 300v I use can Last longer before breaking down.

Regularly changing the oil is what's important - as long as the bike does not suffer between oil changes - not so much the brand. If I was getting the same results on Motul 1000 as I do on Motul 300v I would not be using the 300v. As my bike was bought brand new, I use what will maintain the worthless warranty Just In Case.  But now that it is out of warranty and I have Experienced the difference of 300v to a Lesser Oil, I will stick to 300v.

The oil I use is not for everyone. I understand that. Which is why I do not just say "use this and nothing else", why I don't condemn Caltex, Castrol, Penzoil, Valvoline, etc. Just because the GS500 is not as pricey as  Ducati Desmosedici doesn't mean I should use the crappiest stuff in it - this is how I think.

If you look at the Plethora of oil threads here, the one thing you can glean is that gstwinners use a wide range of oils - from plain cheapest car oil to high end motorcycle oil and everything in between. And our bikes all still run. Well, most of our bikes still run  And we use oils of which we are happy with the results. And we understand the important of Regular Oil Changes - often, people come here specifically to learn how to maintain their bike, which shows they care enough about their bikes to actually do the maintenance required. Al la, regular oil changes. Which is why we can have such a wide range of oils used and all gets the results we want.

I wasn't happy with my oil and changed it until I found something I was happy with and share that. Whether others choose my path or their own or the same as someone else shares here is up to them. But the wider the range of experiences shared here the more information people have with which to make their own decisions, and that is always a good thing. 

Michael

Quote from: mister on September 03, 2011, 12:33:37 PM

Quote from: ojstinson on September 03, 2011, 03:53:22 AM
Mister----Not to be a smartass myself, but I was just wondering why many Japanese car and small truck makers specifically require the use of plain old ordinary 10-30 or 10-40 motor oils in their manual transmissions if shear is such a problem? We're talking about some pretty hefty pressures involved  in gears pushing around a few thousand pounds of car and cargo for 30 to 60 thousands miles between changes. I've heard tales of some standard Hondas and Toyotas getting upward of 400,000 miles on the original transmissions.

If a guy can get 170,000 miles---and counting---out of 10-40 walmart oil ( changing it every 2000 miles ), just how bad can it be?-----How many of you out there are planning on putting anywhere close to that many miles on any bike anyway?

Regularly changing the oil is what's important - as long as the bike does not suffer between oil changes - not so much the brand. If I was getting the same results on Motul 1000 as I do on Motul 300v I would not be using the 300v. As my bike was bought brand new, I use what will maintain the worthless warranty Just In Case.  But now that it is out of warranty and I have Experienced the difference of 300v to a Lesser Oil, I will stick to 300v.


Michael

So, there isn't a single shop in town that has my oil filter (in purolator OR K&N) and the only motorcycle supplier (cyclegear) doesn't have Motul 5100. They can't keep it in stock because it goes so fast. I was reading about 300v, which they had in stock, but even the 10w-40 had "friction modifiers" in it (see: here), which is fairly off putting. I can pick up 300v here pretty cheap though, the cyclegear did have that in stock. Either way I'm going to have to order my oil filter, so I'll probably just order the oil with it.

So, there isn't a single shop in town that has my oil filter (in purolator OR K&N) and the only motorcycle supplier (cyclegear) doesn't have Motul 5100. They can't keep it in stock because it goes so fast. I was reading about 300v, which they had in stock, but even the 10w-40 had "friction modifiers" in it (see: here), which is fairly off putting. I can pick up 300v here pretty cheap though, the cyclegear did have that in stock. Either way I'm going to have to order my oil filter, so I'll probably just order the oil with it.
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Does it say "friction modifiers"  or is there a little badge type lable which says "energy conserving" or "resource conserving"

I mean ALL oils have friction modifiers.......like in that is what oil does...modify (less) friction.....

Cookie