Hi,

I've owned a GS500 ('01 model) for a few months now and its due for service.  I do not know if the valves have ever been adjusted, as I bought it used.  The bike has less than 10K on the clock as of now.  I've found a lot of good information on this forum thus far; I understand what needs to be done and am confident I can do the work.

However, I find little tidbits claiming that the special tool isn't totally necessary for replacing the shims; could someone detail how to replace shims without the tool?  As I understand it, the shims can be removed by loosening or removing the camshaft in question; what do I risk screwing up by doing this, and what is the torque spec on the fasteners that have to be loosened/removed?  (from searching the forum, I understand that the torque spec for the valve cover screws is 13-15 N*m, can anyone confirm this?  I'm always afraid of stripping something out or breaking a fastener so I always like to have a torque value.)

As for the tool itself, is it specific to the GS500, the GS range of bikes. or is it something that can be used on most DOHC engines?  The reason I ask is, if its something I'll use in the future then it may be worth buying, but chances are I won't own this bike long enough to do another valve adjustment on it.

Also, I'm a big fan of lubricating threads with Never Seize or similar; you get corrosion protection, prevent sticking to make future removal easier, and get a much more accurate torque reading.  Is there any reason I should avoid using this kind of lubricant on the valve cover screws or the cam fasteners (i.e. risk of the never seize finding its way into the engine oil and causing some damage)?

Lastly, is there anything else I should check on when I have the valve cover off?

Thanks for your help; I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I start taking my bike apart.

I have seen shims replaced without a special tool, but don't remember what was done.
I didn't see your location anywhere. If people knew where you were, someone might be close to you and be willing to help.
I have the tool you could use - but you're probably not in Seattle.

Quote from: Captain Slow on September 22, 2011, 08:11:34 PM
Hi,

I've owned a GS500 ('01 model) for a few months now and its due for service.  I do not know if the valves have ever been adjusted, as I bought it used.  The bike has less than 10K on the clock as of now.  I've found a lot of good information on this forum thus far; I understand what needs to be done and am confident I can do the work.

However, I find little tidbits claiming that the special tool isn't totally necessary for replacing the shims; could someone detail how to replace shims without the tool?  As I understand it, the shims can be removed by loosening or removing the camshaft in question; what do I risk screwing up by doing this, and what is the torque spec on the fasteners that have to be loosened/removed?  (from searching the forum, I understand that the torque spec for the valve cover screws is 13-15 N*m, can anyone confirm this?  I'm always afraid of stripping something out or breaking a fastener so I always like to have a torque value.)

As for the tool itself, is it specific to the GS500, the GS range of bikes. or is it something that can be used on most DOHC engines?  The reason I ask is, if its something I'll use in the future then it may be worth buying, but chances are I won't own this bike long enough to do another valve adjustment on it.

Also, I'm a big fan of lubricating threads with Never Seize or similar; you get corrosion protection, prevent sticking to make future removal easier, and get a much more accurate torque reading.  Is there any reason I should avoid using this kind of lubricant on the valve cover screws or the cam fasteners (i.e. risk of the never seize finding its way into the engine oil and causing some damage)?

Lastly, is there anything else I should check on when I have the valve cover off?

Thanks for your help; I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I start taking my bike apart.

Why in God's name would you want to do it without the tool? It's a 5 dollar investment if you make one yourself and saves you tons of time and cam re-installation headaches. There is literally no purpose in doing it without a tool. Even Suzuki realized this, as they were the ones to release the original ~30 USD tool you use.

I'm not scolding you for trying. You're just being a masochist at this point though.

In the name of the flying spaghetti monster (since you brought him into the picture), I likely will not own the bike long enough to do even one more valve adjustment, but I'm not the kind of guy to own something long enough to enjoy it and then sell it to the next sucker without maintaining it.  Lastly, I don't want to take it to the dealership to pay some pimple faced kid a small fortune to over torque something or knock my bike over in the process, or potentially doing nothing at all.

Yes, I know, if the only tool I have is a hammer  all my problems look like nails.  I do have the ability to remove fasteners, so all my problems presently look like fasteners.  And nails.  I have hammers.  Lots of hammers.  I'm still not totally opposed to buying the valve doohickey (not to be confused with the KLR doohickey).  But I'm not scolding you.  And I don't feel scolded.  Just make it worth my while, tell me its worth it and/or that I can use it on future projects that aren't necessarily GS500s.  I can deal with some one-time headaches for 25-30 bucks.  If its something I'll use in the future, I don't mind buying it.

In my searching, someone mentioned using the Kawasaki style tool instead

http://www.chrome-addiction.com/p-motion-pro-kawasaki-valve-shim-tool-p525-10088147.php?r=froogle

If it works nicely for this bike (and apparently other models as well considering it claims to be for Kawasaki DOHC engines), I can get over the investment.  Plus its cheaper.  And functionally makes slightly more sense to me.

Tools is cheap....

Having dealer or shop do valve check/adjust is expensive....

Doing without tool is a bad idea IMHO...Could FU something ..that would be expensive...

Spend a little to save a lot?....

Yo do the math....

Cookie

Tool is about $15........

Sell to somebody when you're done with it........

Or make something else out of it like a nail puller or flyswatter or tiny hammer..

Cookie

The other name of this forum is 'penny squeezers anonymous'.  When you start getting recommendations to actually spend money, there is usually good reason!   

I'm the kind of guy who will go the extra mile to save a few pennies. So I tried changing a shim last winter without the Suzuki tool.
After fighting with that damn **** for 5 hours I ordered the tool. When I got it, it took me 10 minutes to get the shim out.
Buy the tool. It's worth it, even for just doing one valve adjustment.

Hmmm.... I never use a special tool. I rotate the crank until the bucket is fully seated, carefully place the blade of a screwdriver in place, and rotate the crank until the cam lobe is out of the way. Simple, easy and quick.

Removing the camshaft has a lot or problems associated with it and you'll have to mess with the tensioner, which is in a very tight location.

To be fair, I would like to have the tool, but I'm too damn cheap to buy it and I don't mind doing it "my way".

Mike

The Kawi tool in that link looks very similar. Probably would work. Not a bad price either.

Edit: Another thing is that you don't need the tool just to check the valves.. If it's not your only mode of transport/fun, you could pull it apart and see if it even needs adjusting. I did mine when it had around 22K miles on the clock(got it at 19K and doubt the Po did the valves) got Kerry's valve kit, pulled it apart and they were all pretty much in spec. I ended up swaping a couple around just because I was in there. But I really didn't need to. I plan to gage mine this winter, and then order the stuff to do the valves if it needs it.

Quote from: gsJack on September 23, 2011, 06:23:53 AM

Hey, whatever works..

For me the motion pro tool worked PERFECTLY........What I like about it, is once you get it in there, it will stay by itself, so you have two hands free to mess with the feeler and to get the shim out if needed...


Cookie

If you aren't using the tool, pull the cams. It isn't a huge deal; this is how most modern shim-under-bucket bikes are adjusted. Yes, you need to set torque correctly, especially on the cam caps.

Personally, I don't use the tool. IMO, pulling the cams isn't that difficult, though it does slightly increase the risk of dinging a bearing surface, bending an alignment dowel, or dropping a part. OTOTH, using the tool isn't always straightforward either.

If you're going to pull the cams, be sure to mark the cam to chain alignment tool with a mechanics marker. Makes getting everything back together again pretty straightforward.

Also, widening the valve clearance a little helps keep the engine in spec. Stock values are quite tight... Spec is something on the order of .01"-.03"... Opening this op to .03-.04 helps keep things happy. Did it on my race bike, and confirm that it works well under abuse.

FINE you convinced me to buy the motion pro Suzuki tool.  I found it on Amazon for a couple of bucks less.  But I'm not happy about it. 

I realize I may not even need the tool, I just don't want to tear my bike apart, find out I need it and be without bike for several days before I can put it back together properly.  I think I should be able to unload it for what I have in it later.

So now I'm going to jack my own thread.  Should I be concerned about anything here?  Left plug pictured came out of left cylinder (as sitting on the bike).  There was a bit of white powdery ashy stuff on the 'left' plug that wiped off easily.  That plug was gapped slightly larger than spec (now fixed).  Plugs are the correct NGK model as specified in the owner's manual.

Quote from: Captain Slow on September 23, 2011, 05:30:46 PM
FINE you convinced me to buy the motion pro Suzuki tool.  I found it on Amazon for a couple of bucks less.  But I'm not happy about it. 

I realize I may not even need the tool, I just don't want to tear my bike apart, find out I need it and be without bike for several days before I can put it back together properly.  I think I should be able to unload it for what I have in it later.

So now I'm going to jack my own thread.  Should I be concerned about anything here?  Left plug pictured came out of left cylinder (as sitting on the bike).  There was a bit of white powdery ashy stuff on the 'left' plug that wiped off easily.  That plug was gapped slightly larger than spec (now fixed).  Plugs are the correct NGK model as specified in the owner's manual.

White powdery ashy stuff is usually an indication that the bike is running lean. I'm no where near a master at plug reading (it's an art) but the back of my Hayne's manual agrees with me.


This NGK sparkplug guide should be able to help.

Quote from: Captain Slow on September 23, 2011, 05:30:46 PM
Should I be concerned about anything here?

Yes, you've dirtied you wife's favorite material blanket-looking thing and she will be pissed. Be VERY afraid.

Michael

Now that you have purchased "the tool".....just a comment before you get pissed at us for "making" you buy the tool.

I put a thin coating of motor oil on the business end of the tool.  The tool must slide as well rotate.

Also, when you insert the tool between the camshaft and the bucket...make sure you have it in there correctly...the raised "rib" of the tool must catch the very edge of the bucket, but it must be tight (sideways) against the shim too.

Lastly...as you rotate the tool ( push the handle downward) you must also push the tool inward...like, push lengthwise along the handle.....(I didn't really see the guy in the video do this)

The business end of the tool is not circular...it is sort of oblong.....so you have to keep it pushed inward, along the handle in order to keep it tight against the camshaft...It slides against the camshaft and it slides against the edge of the bucket....

So again it is a sliding, inward action, as well as a rotation...

Be sure to rotate the tool all the way....(handle downward until it can't go no more...this way the tool will stay in place by itself, with the valve depressed and easy access to remove the bucket...with two free hands...

I made it sound way harder than it really is.............Good Luck..

Cookie