hi guys, so this is the problem, i have a performance exhaust, jets are 40/145 and just mounted pods, and the needle has 2 washers, and i have notice that the bike makes much more noise with pods, i think its normal??

so i put the bike in first and accelerate softly and the bike appears to bog down, could be to rich?? and if i accelerate harder it revs up, but i have to put the clutch in or it dies, know when I'm riding along it seems OK, but i thinks it use to accelerate better,  the plug has a darker Brown color,

anyone have an idea?

thanks

dose this mean its to rich?

yup

what are the air correction screws set to?
budduh jets them rich cause he never wrings the throttle and he never gets the bike up on the main jet. i'd go back towards 135 ish

Quote from: jordan on September 23, 2011, 11:34:59 AM
hi guys, so this is the problem, i have a performance exhaust, jets are 40/145 and just mounted pods, and the needle has 2 washers, and i have notice that the bike makes much more noise with pods, i think its normal??

so i put the bike in first and accelerate softly and the bike appears to bog down, could be to rich?? and if i accelerate harder it revs up, but i have to put the clutch in or it dies, know when I'm riding along it seems OK, but i thinks it use to accelerate better,  the plug has a darker Brown color,

anyone have an idea?

thanks

At what ranges are you bogging down?


Use this guide to help you find out. There's really no better tuning guide than that one.

Quote from: werase643 on September 23, 2011, 05:21:18 PM
yup

what are the air correction screws set to?
budduh jets them rich cause he never wrings the throttle and he never gets the bike up on the main jet. i'd go back towards 135 ish

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you're talking about.

so could the problem be in the main jet or in the fuel level?
or should i just try to take the washer off? because i feel that in the high revs it pulls ok, realy the main jet only is used on wot. so what do you guys think?

thamks for the help

Quote from: jordan on September 23, 2011, 11:31:48 PM
so could the problem be in the main jet or in the fuel level?
or should i just try to take the washer off? because i feel that in the high revs it pulls ok, realy the main jet only is used on wot. so what do you guys think?

thamks for the help

How does it pull in the lows? The washer will only have an effect on mid range.

it pulls ok but semes that it bogs from 2k is this normal?

Quote from: jordan on September 24, 2011, 02:33:04 AM
it pulls ok but semes that it bogs from 2k is this normal?

Follow the guide.

Check your float height first and then move on to the pilot jet.

ok guys, so after some time around the bike i can say that it pulls ok, and a bit harder then with the airbox, but when i put it in first gear and accelareat it bogs then i give it even more gas and it comes to life, what could this be? learn ou rich?
also, i know that the plug looks like its rich but the bike pulls ok, and the plug electrode and that hook, (i dont know the name) are more like a brown color, the rest of the plug is black.

so why is the plug like this?

thanks

ok, after some twiking around this is what i got



so what dose this mean?

anyone?

Quote from: jordan on September 26, 2011, 10:15:52 AM
ok, after some twiking around this is what i got



so what dose this mean?

Your threads are black, aka not hot enough @ the head ... aka normal. No one reads that, the head and wall will be nothing but black, that is the coldest part of the spark plug.

The hook electrode is ashy and the flat part of the round electrode is darker grey. Those are actually not bad at all, I am guessing those are if anything on the leaner side, just a hair, the hook electrode is ideally the color of the flat part of the center electrode ...

So this spark plug is a good color, but what did you do to get this plug ... as in, is it ride for 1/2 hour, park the bike with it idling and turn it off, wait 2 hours and then pull ... that is then your idle plug reading.

Bog at take off - and you got 40/145 - you running pods - what sorta pods ?
Take off is pilot jet. 40 will leave you on the spot, no one ever disputes this, not even werase643.
So back to werase's Q, air screw setting and here is the other 1/2 - float level, and well, is there an intake air leak, and exhaust leak ?

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: jordan on September 23, 2011, 02:09:05 PM


dose this mean its to rich?

This spark plug is actually closer to correct. Chocolate color on the hook electrode, I'd like to see the spark path, and in fact a better pic but that chocolate color is almost ideal. The threads - red herring man, ignore it. For an air cooled bike that may be burning a bit of oil this is very good.

Cool.
Buddha.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I just checked my valve clearance this weekend and took my spark plugs out in the process. Mine are a very light shade of grey with a completely stock engine. Does that mean it's too lean at factory settings?

Bike is running fine and excellent on gas so I really have no complaints. Just curious.

hi Buddha, i gave the bike for an 40min ride, the only thing that i thought was wrong was the more blacker part on the plug,
but if you say it OK, who better to give me advice 

on the part of stalling on take off is more like, i take of around 2k and accelerate, but as i give it gas it bogs in give it even more gas, and after some struggle it picks up and goes, and if i take of at say 3k to 4k it takes off OK.
i just wonder what it would be.

Jordan: It wont do much more below 3k except hold idle. This is a dinky little bike, dont expect it to run like a harley below 3K.

However if you were rolling in say 2nd @5 mph, and had 2K on the tach, and you slowly opened the throttle, it should slowly pull away. Not jerk and buck and collapse.

jmelchio: Threads will - or should not get hot enough to burn off carbon - that process of getting off the carbon is called self cleaning, if they do its seriously going to start melting stuff. The electrodes are all that will get hot and they are all that is sticking into combustion chamber where combustion occours. See even in fire there is hotter fire and colder fire. Lighter fluid fire is barely @ boiling point of water, and a acytelene fire will melt steel - 12-1300f. To your eye they both look the same. Not even close says anything that can be stuck in them.

Anyway your hot part - the center of the chamber needs to be able to completely burn any carbon based material that will present itself in gasoline. There should be nothing left after it is done except CO2 and H2O. 1/4 inch from the wall where the electrode is that number drops to maybe 50% - incomplete combustion leaves carbon, but just enough to turn the plugs dark tan/choclate color. Not so much it burns black. @ the wall, the coldest part of the flame it will leave enough carbon there to be black all the time.

When you read a plug you are reading the fact that the electrode is where there is just enough heat to leave some carbon and the wall is smattered with carbon. Its an indirect flame temperature measure.

The other way to do it, and I have before comming up with the jetting formula - screw in an O2 sensor in the pipe. Ride the bike with a digital millivolt meter hooked to it. If you read .5V its ideal, less is lean, more is rich. That follows a different methodology. A chemical measurement of O2 in the exhaust gas. Oddly the O2 sensor needs temperature to work, however in most cars they just heat em with a heater coil. Exhaust heat is not measured there, its O2 in the exhaust. If a non heat setup, it will just take 20 mins before its readings are accurate.

Cool.
Buddha.

Thanks for the clarification Buddha. I'm going to take another look at my spark plugs this weekend and maybe consider some changes. Don't mean to run the bike too hot, bad for long term prospects of the engine I suppose.

And a plug pull after a ride and idling in your driveway and @ a convenient time after its cooled off is meaningless unless you want to check the mix @ idle. If you got problems @ 1/2 throttle, you need to plug pull @ 1/2 throttle after 5 sec @ 1/2 throttle. So how the heck do you do it ... you ride it, get it to 4th or 5th and hold it for 5 sec, then holding the throttle in that position, hit the kill switch (and this is my only real use of the kill switch in the years I owned that bike) and get to the side of the road. Then pull the plug - yes you will be burnt and scared (from people trying to mow you down on the road) and that will give you 1/2 throttle reading. Repeak this @ every 1/8th interval, and then you'd know all the way across.

I did this, and after about 2 tries decided it was time to stuff a chevy cavalier O2 sensor in the pipe and not run the risk of getting killed.

Cool.
Buddha.

BTW an air cooled bike will run just about fine in a wide range of engine temperatures. Power and typically race bikes are set lean. They dont care about longevity, every other race it is rebuilt anyway. They also run 0 wt oil, never sit in stop and go traffic, nor run it outside of the 6-10K rpm range. They also dont care about warm up times and cold starts - like when was the last time you saw a bike race in december.
You can run 3-4 sizes under what is the largest you would run in a street bike. If you did that you'd need to give it 30 mins to warm up and rebuild the motor every 3 days.

I've heard from reliable sources on the race bikes they run 145 mains with the suzuki needles which ironically is what a factory kit has as the largest main. Factory however machines their own needles which from what I have seen are a hair thinner than the original and have those grooves to pull em up/down. I suspect the needle is good for atleast 1 size, 147.5 would be the factory main jet, I use 150 for that same setup, we dont have the ability to pull the needle up 2-3mm, that'd be a lot of washers.
I've had the ocassional guy say they had to get to 152.5 or put in 20 bones worth of washers ... but the 2 bikes I ran 152.5's on I could easily tell they lost power and speed, an easy 500 rpm up top and all the way across weaker. So with original needles and a K&N and pipe I'd near about guarantee 150 main for 99% of bikes for street use. There are some that would do better on a 147.5 and some that need 152.5, but 99% 40/150/3 turns/1 washer and float height @ level of gasket.

So Jordan - If you got K&N and pipe I'd suggest you try 150's ... if you got uni pods and pipe 145 may be the right one. I'd jet it higher and higher till it craps out (as in you lose the rpm on top or lose strong pull all the way through) then back up to the previous main.

Cool.
Buddha.