OK - let's not hijack RIP thread. Show respect for a downed rider and mangled bike.

To repeat a post to get things going here......

Anytime I use the rear brake, I know exactly what it will do. It is very predictable.
I have 3 bikes: 1992, 1994 and 2009. All operate the same. I don't have to remember what bike I'm on - the brakes are the same. I've ridden 4 or more other GS500's that friends have. Never had any doubts as to how the rear brake works. Always the same - always predictable.

I test rode a GSX650F and a GSXR-600 plus the bikes in the MSF class. Never have to give any thought to how the rear brake works. There might be a light difference between bikes, but reflexes take care of that after using the brake once or twice. One bike had an aggressive rear and squishy front brake. So? After using them a couple times, I learned how they worked. Just like cars have different feel to the brakes and you learn that after braking a couple times. After that, instinct keeps you in the clear.

I do understand that if you ride only 1 GS500 and it has rear brake problems, you'd assume all have a problem.

To weigh in... I rarely use the rear brake on my GS race bike, since I mostly ride in the dry at track pace, and engine braking is sufficient to keep the bike stable at that speed.

IMO, the GS500 rear brake system is a little over-built for our bike. The rear caliper runs 2 massive pistons. It weighs more than it really should for the job we are asking it to perform, and seems to be overly powerful for the application. I however, never had a problem modulating it, and find it significantly better than the drum brakes on a couple other bikes I've tried.

It's not atypical for the rear brake to be a little touchy. I've locked the rear on pretty much all of my bikes, though the worst was probably my first GSX-R 600.

If you want to reduce the power of the rear brakes, simply adjust the lever a little lower. You'll tend to apply it a lot more gently. Keep going till you get the feel you want.

Adidasguy, sometimes I can't see the trees from the forest but eventually I  get the message. Your patience was appreciated.
And thank you burning1 for the redirect.

Back to GS500 brakes. . .
Superior riding skill could certainly be used in place of forgiving rear brakes but life is a kinder simpler place with the latter.
The reason it's an issue with me is twofold. . .
1.) The GS500 is an otherwise perfect bike, it's just too bad about the sour rear brakes.
2.) A while back I was whining about the GS's rear brakes and to my delight a hand full of other forum members chimed in and agreed with my complaints. I felt vindicated. Just sayin' I was glad I was not alone with this complaint.

I'm no expert on this stuff but man, my 2007 GS500F has had crap rears since the day it was new. The brakes operate more like an Off & On switch than a brake pedal.
 

Electrojake,

I'd advise you to lower the position of the rear brake pedal, and look into installing less aggressive pads if the rear brake is too touchy for your taste.

As I mentioned earlier, I think the rear brake is a little over-spec for what it's being asked to do on our bikes, but it doesn't stand out as being much more sensitive than the brake on my GSX-R, and it's certainly a lot more forgiving than the drum brake on the DR-250 I rode when I took the MSF course.

I agree with both of you to some degree.  I find the GS rear brake generally to be good and somewhat predictable, but probably a little over built as well.  The back will lock quicker on my GS than my previous bike, which was a cruiser.  Cruisers have more weight over the rear wheel and typically don't lock as easily. The problem is that in panic situations newbs (and sometimes experienced riders) have a tendency to apply both the front and rear brakes hard, which throws weight forward and causes the rear to lock.  The result is sometimes a highside, which is usually much much worse than a lowside.  I cringe when I see posts that say something similar to "I tend to use the rear brake more than the front".  I know that person is probably setting himself for a violent highside at some point in the future.  Front brakes provide 70% or more of the stopping power.  Using both brakes appropriately provides the most stopping power for sure, but I think the best thing a new rider can do is practice panic stops over and over, teaching himself/herself not to stomp on the back brake hard during panic situations, and to learn how to use the front brake effectively.  Most of us drive cages as well, so we are conditioned to stomp the brakes with our foot, and that automatic response has to be unlearned.

I can hardly feel the actual pedal when I'm applying the rear brake at speed. When I'm using the front, then use the rear as well, I can feel the difference in the added stopping power, but sometimes it's so hard to feel the pressure of the pedal that I look down thinking "did my rear brake pedal fall off?!"

I love the rear brake on the GS500s, wouldn't leave home without one.  Have said many times that I have twin discs on my GS, one in the front and one in the rear and they work great together.  I use all three brakes most of the time, front, rear, and engine.

To be honest it bit me once when I got my first GS back in 99 and a car started to jump out from a stop in front of me and I hit the brakes hard and locked the rear and low sided to a stop.  Very minor bike damage and no personal injuries.  I learned to use that rear brake and use it well after that, I was not a new rider then as I had already put about 230k miles on 4 old 400-750cc Hondas with drum rear brakes.  The GS rear disc brake had a bit more grip and I needed myself recalibrated.   

The rear brake can be your best friend when into a corner too fast since it doesn't stand you up like the front brake does but has much the same effect as giving it more throttle but with decreasing speed instead of increasing as when on trottle.  The GS has a larger diameter rear disc than the Gixxers and other supersports have since it doesn't have the powerful front twin discs that unload the rear so much on the supersports when braking hard so it has a lot of potential when you learn to modulate it well, I haven't locked the rear in 170k GS500 miles since that first incident on my 97 GS.  I even used a couple sets of HH rear pads on the 02 GS with much greater grip.  Never tried a 04 or later GSF but the brakes still use the same parts as my older GSs.

I'm in envy of those of you that have sweet (stock) rear stoppers.
I guess the first step is to replace my stock rear rotor with an aftermarket unit.
I'm figuring $150 to about $200.00 for that little experiment.
EBC?
Galfer?
Braking Inc?
<sigh>

A different rotor won't make much difference. Look into pads with a low initial bite, and as I said, lower the brake lever.

In my experience both front and rear brakes on my 09 GS are very effective and very predictable. I've never had a problem with being able to use a gentle light touch on brakes of bikes I've ridden. Only use my index and middle fingers on the hand lever and never stomp on the foot lever but rather use gradually increasing pressure. If I feel any slip I ease off the lever a little and all is good. I'm very pleased with the stopping ability of my GS

Dale

Thought I'd add that my Moto Guzzi has linked brakes where the foot pedal works the rear brake and one front brake with approximately 30% rear and 70% front. The hand lever works the second front brake. The system works great. The GS is about 100 pounds lighter than the Guzzi and yes it is easier to lock the rear on the GS. The first Hard stop on the GS did get the rear to slip a little bit but it was totally controllable and not a problem. I learned to deal with rear wheel slides on my old 65 HD. It would lock the rear very easily but would recover when releasing the brake in a way that was predictable and controllable. I've felt the rear of the GS get light and loose a few times, I don't think I've ever locked the rear of the Guzzi. The old HD didn't have enough front brake to lock it up except maybe on gravel or dirt. I've locked the front of both the Guzzi and the GS for brief moments on loose stone while going straight without incident. I am confident in the brakes of both the Guzzi and the GS and feel comfortable with their operation.

Quote from: Electrojake on October 19, 2011, 06:19:26 PM
Adidasguy, sometimes I can't see the trees from the forest but eventually I  get the message. Your patience was appreciated.
And thank you burning1 for the redirect.

Back to GS500 brakes. . .
Superior riding skill could certainly be used in place of forgiving rear brakes but life is a kinder simpler place with the latter.
The reason it's an issue with me is twofold. . .
1.) The GS500 is an otherwise perfect bike, it's just too bad about the sour rear brakes.
2.) A while back I was whining about the GS's rear brakes and to my delight a hand full of other forum members chimed in and agreed with my complaints. I felt vindicated. Just sayin' I was glad I was not alone with this complaint.

I'm no expert on this stuff but man, my 2007 GS500F has had crap rears since the day it was new. The brakes operate more like an Off & On switch than a brake pedal.
 

My main complaint is I can't tell how much rear brake I'm using until I lock it up, which I haven't done in a long while. The rear brake on both my friend's SV650 and my other friend's CBR600RR are much better at telling you exactly how much pressure you're using. I'm actually planning on bleeding both my brakes this weekend to see if it helps my situation any. I have WAY too much travel in my rear brake and I'm not certain why. It feels like I'm pressing it forever until I get feedback. This all compounded of course by the fact I wear Sidi Cobras, which don't let me feel my Gs500 brake as well as on the SV650 or CBR600RR.

Taught motorcycle courses with the Canada Safety Council for almost 15 yrs.

It was my constant experience that the harder you use the front brake to stop faster, the less you should use the rear brake. Most people are used to driving cars, where you push with your entire leg to apply the brakes. I observed students doing this on their bikes as well during braking exercises. The student would actually lift their heel off the peg and push down HARD with their leg, with the result being they would lock up the rear brake.

The solution is to practice keeping your foot ON the peg and activate your rear brake by pushing down with your toes only. Remember that when you are braking hard, 70% or more of the weight of you and your bike is being moved forward onto the front tire. The harder you try and stop, the more sensitive your rear brake is going to be, up to the point the rear tire has almost no contact with the road surface at all, wherein you have nearly 0% rear brake.

Braking distance tests consistently demonstrate the difference between using front brake or rear brake only, with the best results being front/rear together, followed by front only and then rear only. But the difference between front/rear together was always a small distance ~ the point is the rear brake helps, but not as much as people who are normally used to driving cars think it does.

If you are having particular problems with your GS, it may very well be the brake lever is set too high and allows you to put too much pressure on it. This is certainly what it sounds like several board members are referring to when they say the GS has touchy brakes. As Burning1 said, an adjustment here may help. I don't recall specifically noticing anything out of the ordinary on my wife's 2007 GS500F and I rode it numerous times, but I also practice the techniques I taught.

I've locked the rear brake up once in a panic stop... fortunately the bike stayed straight so no drama. I'd become more reliant on it b/c the front brake on this bike is comparatively weak... after that experience I made some hardware changes and it's improved.

The best way to get used to the rear brake for street riding is to practice panic stops. Find a large parking lot, gear up, and practice stopping as fast as you can from about 20MPH, and then work the speeds up. This is something I do every spring (well, every fall here) when dragging the bike out for the season. You do what you drill.

+1 to lowering the pedal; it lowers your ability to push down with your foot, which improves modulation. I'd do this b/f changing the pads. I've heard some riders will bleed air *into* the rear lines to kill off some of it's grabbing power. I wouldn't recommend it but to each their own.

Because the MSF courses talk about what to do when your rear brake locks - wouldn't that mean ANY bike can lock the rear brake? It's not a GS500 specific chapter in the course.
I know exactly what my rear brake does. Great for a little drag in turns or a slight slow down in traffic. Use it when stopped at long traffic lights to rest my hands.

With 3 bikes: one stock, one with Gimbel and one with Raask - I have 3 completely different rear brake pedals. It took a week at first to get comfortable with Gimbel. I knew the foot position and pressure was different. So I went out and practiced. Same with Raask. Then after a few weeks I changed a pivot point on the Raask. It was too low and too much travel. That change made it much better (its in an earlier post in this thread). Still, I had no problem using it before the change - I just had to practice a little and learn how it worked. I can jump from one bike to the other and have no problem with the different rear brakes. I took time to learn the difference. My brain knows and adjusts instantly. Some people would bieatch and complain that one bike was different and say they could never learn it and change it back.

Its all a matter of learning the feel of the brakes. Take time to practice. As long as you keep complaining about them, your brain as a mental block - you'll never learn them.

Let other people ride you bike that have never heard you complain about the brakes. After their ride, ask what they think of the bike. DO NOT mention brakes. If they are bad - they will tell you. After that, then say "How do the rear brakes feel to you?" They may say fine or give you some info where they found them different. If they found them to be bad - they would have said it. Now you can do minor adjustment or be quiet and learn how your rear brakes work.

I don't need an MSF instructor, I need a mechanic.

With all due respect, I mean no malice here but I seem to be having trouble extracting tech-data and/or engineering advice.

I had discussed this very issue with gsJack about 2 years ago.
Same result: Most owners feel GS rears are fine, yet a minority of late model GS owners felt the rears were garbage.
At the time I went so far as to buy a set of pads and cut a 1 inch wide slot down the face of each pad on a milling machine in an attempt to reduce the total friction surface.
It was just one of several experiments I did in an attempt to identify (if not conquer) the rear brake issue on the GS.
And at first the slotted pads seemed to be the answer but as the pads wore-in they got "touchy/grabby" so I went back to stock.

Squeaky rears was another issue that we discussed and I got a lot of very helpful tech-advice from the GStwin forum crew here.
My brakes have been blissfully quiet ever since.
Thank you GStwin forum!
  ------------------
Back to the issue of brakes, (not braking). . .
As you know, Brake pads are available in three types: FF, GG and HH.
HH = very sticky - the most stopping power
GG = standard - less grab
FF = wooden - less yet
  -------------------
Anyone have any advice (part numbers?) for FF pads that will fit the post 04 GS rears?
BTW, I can get HH all day long but I need something with a little less grab, right?

Thanks for your posts. Lots of good info you guys put up there, and sorry I been a PITA. 
-Ej-

Quote from: Electrojake on October 19, 2011, 06:19:26 PMI'm no expert on this stuff but man, my 2007 GS500F has had crap rears since the day it was new. The brakes operate more like an Off & On switch than a brake pedal.
 

Maybe you need to rebuild the caliper ? You could even try a used one from another bike ~ probably cost less than a set of brake pads 

Quote from: SAFE-T on October 20, 2011, 06:44:51 PM

Maybe you need to rebuild the caliper ? You could even try a used one from another bike ~ probably cost less than a set of brake pads 

Exactly!
I'm thinking a caliper from a much older GS at that.

Between my 2 bikes: 1992, 1994 and 2009 I find the rear brake pretty much the same. Always predictable. Even with the 3 different rear sets now, I find them all just fine. I've ridden other bikes and no problem.

Bike breakers have lots of front and rear calipers. That's what I do when I need new pads now: buy calipers with good pads from new bikes with 1000 miles or less. Why pay for pads and rebuilding a caliper when you can get a nearly new one with nearly new pads for $15 to $25? You might go that route - or at least get one and pop it on and see if there is a difference.

FYI:  Pinwall cycles on ebay always gives the mileage of the bike and has good photos of the calipers and pads. Power sports nation is my second choice.

Not a bad idea to have a good set around as a spare in case something happens. I'm more of the replace it first, then fix the bad one when I have the time (if its worth it - or just buy another spare)

Often you can get rotors for really good prices. I got a front and a rear and the calipers that went with them from a bike with 240 miles (that poor bike - it was just a baby) for I think $150 for all of it. Those rotors are smooth as glass. Watch for sales.

soo after reading this last night an thinking to my self what are yall talking about.. it finally happened to me lol!

It was cold as hell today, and i went for a ride next thing i know i barely hit my rear break just to try to slow down a little before the light and bam!
My rear tire locks up and the bike starts screaming and sliding back and forth, luckily i caught it just in time do to some batman like reflexes and kept my bike up.
I found out that if your tires are cold your chances of locking up your tires are a whole lot better! It didnt do it again because that wormed the tire up and i kept on riding for a while and that in it self made the tire nice a worm!

just a thought but if you plan on having some fun on your bike make sure your tires and engine are at normal temp, then go at it lol

How old are your tires? Was air pressure OK?

Old tires get hard and don't grab the road. I locked up Trey the first month I had him: rear tire had good tread but was old and hard. New tire: never happened again.

Moral: tread noes not equate to good tires.