I don't know what Suzuki standards are for acceptable oil consumption but I assume it is something outrageous like Toyota's 1 quart in 1,200 miles.  GSJack would be a good person to ask.  My old '89 which burns oil goes through about a quart between oil changes.

-Jessie

Quote from: phendric on November 02, 2011, 09:45:06 PM
Just measured the dipstick in my bike - it's 6.25" from the end of the stick to the beginning of the threads.  Can anyone verify that that's how long it should be?

@BaltimoreGS: I'll pay attention to how quickly I'm losing oil when I add more oil either tomorrow or Friday.  What is the "normal" consumption rate?

Yep....that's correct length dipstick

My old 97 Owners Manual says:

1. Place the motorcycle on level ground on the centerstand.
2. Start the engine and allow it to idle for a few minutes.
3. Stop the engine and wait approximately  one minute.
4. Check the oil level.  The oil filler cap threads should not be run in but
    just touching the filler hole upper edge.

My 02 came slightly used without an OM.

My way copied from a recent post of mine:

I've been checking my oil in 4 Hondas and 2 GS500s the same way for 27 years and 390k miles.  I check it in the morning cold after it has sat on the centerstand overnight.  I just unscrew and pull the dipstick and check it.  If it's low I top it up before heading out to ride.

Way back years ago when my CB750K began to use a lot of oil I became annoyed with the conventional method of checking it hot, it was very hot to handle and as it sat there if you would check it at different times after shutting it down you would get different results.  If I checked it after 4 minutes it would show more oil than after 2 minutes for example, hardly an accurate way of doing things.  So when I got home I pulled it in, shut it down, and checked it hot on the centerstand after a few minutes and then left it until morning and checked it again in the morning cold.  The hot reading was done wiping the dipstick off and putting it in without screwing it in and the cold morning reading was just unscrewing it and pulling and reading it.  Seemed to me the amount it screwed in was about equal to the difference between the hot and cold oil volume.  Got the same reading close enough that way repeated times.  What could be easier.

Regarding oil consumption, both of my high milage GSs have followed the same pattern.  For the first 40k miles or so I didn't add oil between 3k mile oil changes and oil consumption increased from little or none when new to being about down to the add mark at 3k mile change time.  After that very approx milage point I'd just go to one gallon changes.  I'd get a gallon of oil and put three quarts of oil in when changing oil and then add top up oil as required with the remaing quart and change oil again when the gallon was gone.  While all the cars I've owned were about 1 quart between the full and add marks I've found that all the bikes I've owned to be more like 1 pint between marks.

As total bike milage increases from 40k-80k miles or so my GSs both used increasingly more oil at higher rpm's, it's more like an oil pump than an engine if you still redline it frequently but ridden moderately I expect my current 02 GS now at 91k miles to go to 100k miles without any serious oil consumption problems. 

Having put over 80k miles on my 97 GS and now at 91k miles on my 03 GS I've seen no indication of any valve oil seal problems, they're still as good as new.  The consumed oil is getting past the loose fit pistons and rings as wear increases, remember the GS engne was designed back in the 70's and was one of Suzuki's first two 4 stroke designs at that time.

I just want to add to all this: if you are concerned about the bike being level, put a piece of wood or a rock or something under the kickstand. Get it high enough that it is still leaning to the left, but not so much that it begins to tip to the right.

Phendric, there's a lot of irrelevant talk here about the correct way to check the oil, length of dipstick etc.
The point is that even if the dipstick is the wrong length and you're checking it during a full moon on a leap year, it has less oil in it now than it did before = its using oil.
Its either leaking or burning, you have cured the leaks = its burning oil.
Therefore you need to keep adding oil until you get it overhauled (at least new rings, maybe rebore).
IMHO you can have an engine burning a substantial amount of oil without obviously oily looking spark plugs.

Phendric,

It sounds like you're burning oil. Different GS will have different levels of oil consumption, but it's very typical for an air cooled engine to burn some. I'd suggest you start by performing a compression test on the engine. May also be worth performing a leak-down test, though the tester can be a little expensive so it would be worth taking it to a mechanic for that job.

First question: What oil are you running? Different oils have different burn rates.

Consumption on my GS500 was extremely high due to the nature of my riding. I'd burn about a quart every 300 miles or so, and that was with one of the most stable oils available.

Regarding how to check the oil level on the bike: I'm not convinced that there will be a significant difference between checking on the centre stand, and checking with both wheels on the ground, and certainly not enough of a difference to dry a dipstick. To answer the other question, the GS is easy to check on level ground; sit on the bike with a rag in your hand and the dipstick loose. Measure, keeping the bike level using your legs.

Stick your finger up the end of the exhaust, if it comes out black wet and sticky..........you are burning oil.

Quote from: burning1 on November 03, 2011, 02:13:29 PM...

First question: What oil are you running? Different oils have different burn rates.

Consumption on my GS500 was extremely high due to the nature of my riding. I'd burn about a quart every 300 miles or so, and that was with one of the most stable oils available.

...

+1 

My 2001 GS used to burn almost a liter of 10-40W "Mobil" semi-synth oil every 1000 kms.
Actually, every three gas tank top-ups, I had to add cca 1 liter of oil.
(After the valve cover leak and clutch pushrod leak solved) I thought that the problem was with valve seals, but just out of curiosity, I filled the engine with 15-50W "Motorex" semi-synth oil, and the burning just stopped.
After a 1000 kms, the level on dipstick was exactly the same.

After that, I swapped the engine with CBR's, so I don't know if heavier oil permanently solved the problem, but there's an idea... 

Quote from: gsJack on November 03, 2011, 07:25:18 AM
My old 97 Owners Manual says:

1. Place the motorcycle on level ground on the centerstand.
2. Start the engine and allow it to idle for a few minutes.
3. Stop the engine and wait approximately  one minute.
4. Check the oil level.  The oil filler cap threads should not be run in but
    just touching the filler hole upper edge.

My 02 came slightly used without an OM.

My way copied from a recent post of mine:

I've been checking my oil in 4 Hondas and 2 GS500s the same way for 27 years and 390k miles.  I check it in the morning cold after it has sat on the centerstand overnight.  I just unscrew and pull the dipstick and check it.  If it's low I top it up before heading out to ride.

Way back years ago when my CB750K began to use a lot of oil I became annoyed with the conventional method of checking it hot, it was very hot to handle and as it sat there if you would check it at different times after shutting it down you would get different results.  If I checked it after 4 minutes it would show more oil than after 2 minutes for example, hardly an accurate way of doing things.  So when I got home I pulled it in, shut it down, and checked it hot on the centerstand after a few minutes and then left it until morning and checked it again in the morning cold.  The hot reading was done wiping the dipstick off and putting it in without screwing it in and the cold morning reading was just unscrewing it and pulling and reading it.  Seemed to me the amount it screwed in was about equal to the difference between the hot and cold oil volume.  Got the same reading close enough that way repeated times.  What could be easier.

Regarding oil consumption, both of my high milage GSs have followed the same pattern.  For the first 40k miles or so I didn't add oil between 3k mile oil changes and oil consumption increased from little or none when new to being about down to the add mark at 3k mile change time.  After that very approx milage point I'd just go to one gallon changes.  I'd get a gallon of oil and put three quarts of oil in when changing oil and then add top up oil as required with the remaing quart and change oil again when the gallon was gone.  While all the cars I've owned were about 1 quart between the full and add marks I've found that all the bikes I've owned to be more like 1 pint between marks.

As total bike milage increases from 40k-80k miles or so my GSs both used increasingly more oil at higher rpm's, it's more like an oil pump than an engine if you still redline it frequently but ridden moderately I expect my current 02 GS now at 91k miles to go to 100k miles without any serious oil consumption problems. 

Having put over 80k miles on my 97 GS and now at 91k miles on my 03 GS I've seen no indication of any valve oil seal problems, they're still as good as new.  The consumed oil is getting past the loose fit pistons and rings as wear increases, remember the GS engne was designed back in the 70's and was one of Suzuki's first two 4 stroke designs at that time.

Read carefully.....

#1 Says "Hold the motorcycle vertically WITHOUT the center stand."

At least my '09 manual says that...........

Cookie

Quote from: the mole on November 03, 2011, 12:59:53 PM
Phendric, there's a lot of irrelevant talk here about the correct way to check the oil, length of dipstick etc.
The point is that even if the dipstick is the wrong length and you're checking it during a full moon on a leap year, it has less oil in it now than it did before = its using oil.
Its either leaking or burning, you have cured the leaks = its burning oil.
Therefore you need to keep adding oil until you get it overhauled (at least new rings, maybe rebore).
IMHO you can have an engine burning a substantial amount of oil without obviously oily looking spark plugs.

Right on!   Bike is using too much oil...period.

need to diagnose....

Compression test ...next step...

Cookie

To everyone who has suggested a compression test, I ask: if the bike were really suffering from low compression in one or both cylinders, wouldn't there be a ton of other issues, like trouble starting, low power at speed, etc?

The bike, once warm, is very strong, at both low and high speeds, which makes me think there's no compression problem at all...

@Shepa - Hmmm...how did you ride your bike?  Did you push her hard, as I regularly do?  I'm using 10-40W semi-synth as well...and you say she burned 1 qt. every 1,000 km (620 miles)?  I could be having the same problem...

@Sledge: I put my finger up the exhaust pipe, and it came out black, but not really wet or sticky.  It didn't rub off very easily, but with soap and water it came right off.

Quote from: phendric on November 03, 2011, 10:19:53 PM...
@Shepa - Hmmm...how did you ride your bike?  Did you push her hard, as I regularly do?  I'm using 10-40W semi-synth as well...and you say she burned 1 qt. every 1,000 km (620 miles)?  I could be having the same problem...
...

Well, there's an old saying I live by: "If you are (too) gentle with your bike, it tends to get lazy and misbehaving. The worse you treat it (by means of riding, not maintenance!), the better it gets."

An engine can burn oil and still have reasonable compression, its worth checking but its not a definitive diagnosis.

Bottom line is your bike is burning oil, if you keep topping it up it'll keep running, if you want to get reasonable oil consumption you're going to have to pull it down and at least give it new rings, if not a rebore and new pistons.

if you think your bike is performing well it may have a broken top ring especially if its high milage and previously ridden sedately or worn inlet guides or broken oil ring. the reason i say broken top ring is because bore develops a lip at high milage  and a keen young person comes a long revs the ring out of it and piston goes up bore further than normal by a few thou and ring connects with this lip and breaks it and second ring then takes the load.

Quote from: phendric on November 03, 2011, 10:19:53 PM
To everyone who has suggested a compression test, I ask: if the bike were really suffering from low compression in one or both cylinders, wouldn't there be a ton of other issues, like trouble starting, low power at speed, etc?

The bike, once warm, is very strong, at both low and high speeds, which makes me think there's no compression problem at all...

@Shepa - Hmmm...how did you ride your bike?  Did you push her hard, as I regularly do?  I'm using 10-40W semi-synth as well...and you say she burned 1 qt. every 1,000 km (620 miles)?  I could be having the same problem...

@Sledge: I put my finger up the exhaust pipe, and it came out black, but not really wet or sticky.  It didn't rub off very easily, but with soap and water it came right off.

You are in denial!   Coming up with oil level below the low mark, after few miles is a serious problem.........maybe few symptoms now, but more to follow...it is just a matter of time.   You can keep riding and adding oil if you want.......probably go many more miles, just using oil...but some day it's going to leave you screwed. 

You can use standard diagnostic methods and find the actual problem.....or not....but already the diagnosis is in.....rings and/or valves!

If you want me to tell you you're bike is fine and nothing to worry about, ok, But I would be a liar!


Cookie

Did he ever state the miles he has put on the bike?

Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 04, 2011, 08:13:57 AM
Did he ever state the miles he has put on the bike?

No.  When I bought it, it had 12,300.  Now it has just over 14,000.  Not many miles at all for a bike that old...

Quote from: twocool on November 04, 2011, 04:51:28 AMYou are in denial!   Coming up with oil level below the low mark, after few miles is a serious problem.........maybe few symptoms now, but more to follow...it is just a matter of time.   You can keep riding and adding oil if you want.......probably go many more miles, just using oil...but some day it's going to leave you screwed. 

You can use standard diagnostic methods and find the actual problem.....or not....but already the diagnosis is in.....rings and/or valves!

If you want me to tell you you're bike is fine and nothing to worry about, ok, But I would be a liar!

You're probably right about my being in denial.  I bought a bike to learn on and ride, not worry about and spend a bunch of time fixing - at least, that's what I wanted to do.  It's good to know how to diagnose and fix problems, but it's frustrating when you fix two different sources of a problem, just to find that there's another source that's more difficult to detect, diagnose, and fix.

So...I need to do a compression test.  I'm familiar with what a compression test actually tests, but why would it be a useful diagnostic tool in this case?  And what kinds of compression numbers should I be seeing?

Low compression is an indication of mechanical trouble with the engine.  I'd expect to see between 120-150 psi but your more concened with how even the numbers are side to side (usually a 10% variation is acceptable).  Remember to hold the throttle wide open while taking your readings.  If you get a low reading, add a teaspoon of oil into the spark plug hole and see if the compression rises.  If it does, you probably have a piston ring issue.  If not, it may be a valve related issue.

-Jessie

Quote from: phendric on November 04, 2011, 09:03:08 AM

Quote from: twocool on November 04, 2011, 04:51:28 AMYou are in denial!   Coming up with oil level below the low mark, after few miles is a serious problem.........maybe few symptoms now, but more to follow...it is just a matter of time.   You can keep riding and adding oil if you want.......probably go many more miles, just using oil...but some day it's going to leave you screwed. 

You can use standard diagnostic methods and find the actual problem.....or not....but already the diagnosis is in.....rings and/or valves!

If you want me to tell you you're bike is fine and nothing to worry about, ok, But I would be a liar!

You're probably right about my being in denial.  I bought a bike to learn on and ride, not worry about and spend a bunch of time fixing - at least, that's what I wanted to do.  It's good to know how to diagnose and fix problems, but it's frustrating when you fix two different sources of a problem, just to find that there's another source that's more difficult to detect, diagnose, and fix.

So...I need to do a compression test.  I'm familiar with what a compression test actually tests, but why would it be a useful diagnostic tool in this case?  And what kinds of compression numbers should I be seeing?

Perhaps the first diagnosis was wrong...or perhaps there is (was) more than one  problem.

Diagnosis is not difficult...you just follow a step by step procedure.

Repairs are not difficult either...but unfortunately repairs usually involve money, time, and some level of expertise.

If this is just a bike for you to learn how to ride and get some experience riding....maybe just screw it and keep adding oil untill something goes really wrong.....meantime learn to ride on it....then save your $$$ for the next bike....

You could also fix all that is wrong with this bike, but this may not prove to be cost effective....

You could put $2000 into a $500 bike, an you're still left with a $500 bike!

You kind of have to decide which way you want to go.......For example, when my Honda started using oil, I traded it in to the dealer to buy my GS500.  Honda was worth $2000 if it wasn't using oil, but dealer only offered me $1000....I took it!   I probably could have rebuilt the Honda engine for about $800...but that did not seem cost effective to me.

Same with my last car.....Honda Civic.....started using oil...so what?  I kept driving.....used more oil, but still ran good...so I kept driving.....then would run on only 3 cylinders until warmed up (valve guides)  so what? ...I kept driving.....finally I figured I better sell before it doesn't run at all.....ran an ad....(told about oil use and rough idle)  got many responses....guy came right over and bought the car knowing full well it needed a valve job/new heads.....That job was easy to him....not worth it to me...



Good Luck

Cookie