Quote from: phendric on November 04, 2011, 08:53:54 AM

Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 04, 2011, 08:13:57 AM
Did he ever state the miles he has put on the bike?

No.  When I bought it, it had 12,300.  Now it has just over 14,000.  Not many miles at all for a bike that old...

You never really know how many miles are on a used bike.  Your oil consumption would indicate an engine with many more miles than that.  I was wondering about the bikes milage too and also about the oil change history.  Did you change the oil and filter when you got the bike?  What kind and grade of oil is in it now?  If you didn't change the oil yet yourself that would be a good starting point.  Put in a good quality oil of 10W-40 or 15W-40 weight and go from there noting how much oil you add and at what milages, you'll get a better feeling of where you stand after that.  You can buy a whole lot of oil for less than an engine rebuild and establish a rountine of checking and adding that will insure you don't blow the engine for lack of oil.  A compression test of a newly acquired engine/bike is always a good idea.

Quote from: twocool on November 04, 2011, 09:44:31 AMIf this is just a bike for you to learn how to ride and get some experience riding....maybe just screw it and keep adding oil untill something goes really wrong.....meantime learn to ride on it....then save your $$$ for the next bike....

This.  I bought the bike because it ran (which a commuter needs), and because I needed something to learn on.  It has fit the bill, in both those cases, fabulously.

But the bike has its downsides: besides the fact that it sheds oil like it's burning it instead of gas (ok, not THAT quickly, but still), it's uncomfortable to ride for extended periods of time at Southern California highway speeds (having a helmeted head and chest up in the wind with no protection from the bike gets fatiguing very quickly).  And it gets tiring having to wait 5+ minutes for the bike to warm up on a cold day because it's so cold-blooded.

So...I'm already looking for another bike.  Found a 1990 GSX-R750 for $700, and it only really needed a thorough carb cleaning to get it running, and running great.  The bike still needs a few odds and ends that aren't mechanically related, but necessary for a street bike (like mirrors, turn signals, and registration) before I can start riding it legally and regularly, but if I like it, it will replace the 500.  If not, I'll sell it for a small profit, and continue the search for my next bike.

Quote from: phendric on November 04, 2011, 02:44:33 PM
it's uncomfortable to ride for extended periods of time at Southern California highway speeds (having a helmeted head and chest up in the wind with no protection from the bike gets fatiguing very quickly). 

You'll be surprised how used you get to wind buffeting     All my current bikes are naked in the summer (windshields in the winter on 2) and I think nothing of the wind.  Your other reasons are all valid but I would recommend getting a season in on this bike before stepping up.  Even an old sport bike has a lot of power, you have to learn good throttle control to ride them safely.  My 2 cents....

-Jessie

Quote from: phendric on November 04, 2011, 02:44:33 PM

Quote from: twocool on November 04, 2011, 09:44:31 AMIf this is just a bike for you to learn how to ride and get some experience riding....maybe just screw it and keep adding oil untill something goes really wrong.....meantime learn to ride on it....then save your $$$ for the next bike....

This.  I bought the bike because it ran (which a commuter needs), and because I needed something to learn on.  It has fit the bill, in both those cases, fabulously.

But the bike has its downsides: besides the fact that it sheds oil like it's burning it instead of gas (ok, not THAT quickly, but still), it's uncomfortable to ride for extended periods of time at Southern California highway speeds (having a helmeted head and chest up in the wind with no protection from the bike gets fatiguing very quickly).  And it gets tiring having to wait 5+ minutes for the bike to warm up on a cold day because it's so cold-blooded.

So...I'm already looking for another bike.  Found a 1990 GSX-R750 for $700, and it only really needed a thorough carb cleaning to get it running, and running great.  The bike still needs a few odds and ends that aren't mechanically related, but necessary for a street bike (like mirrors, turn signals, and registration) before I can start riding it legally and regularly, but if I like it, it will replace the 500.  If not, I'll sell it for a small profit, and continue the search for my next bike.

Well it seems like you have a good plan.......

But just for the sake of arguement, regarding some of your "problems" above....

Can't wait for 5 minute warm up .... wow!   I just start 'er up and leisurly get my gear ready.....jacket, gloves, helmet, crap bungee'd to the rear seat......takes just about 5 minutes...then off to work or whereever........

Riding on the highway in the wind?   Well I think you're gonna get that with most bikes...except maybe a "goldwing" type.   I lean down at high speeds or in windy conditions.......GS500 is expremely comfortable for me.  (20,000 miles in just over a year)

Old bike at cheap price?  Needs some "small" details?  Hmmm

Maybe good deal...maybe a new can of worms?

just sayin'

Cookie

Don't worry about using oil: just call it a 2 stroke engine 

Quote from: twocool on November 04, 2011, 04:36:42 PMCan't wait for 5 minute warm up .... wow!   I just start 'er up and leisurly get my gear ready.....jacket, gloves, helmet, crap bungee'd to the rear seat......takes just about 5 minutes...then off to work or whereever........

Old bike at cheap price?  Needs some "small" details?  Hmmm

Maybe good deal...maybe a new can of worms?

Like I said, the engine runs really well.  I had the top open to check the valve clearances, and the inside of the engine looks pristine.  Had to re-jet the carbs, though - the mixture was too rich and fouled the plugs pretty quickly.  Mostly what the bike needs it work on the aesthetics - like I said, it's missing turn signals and mirrors, and I'm going to have to paint the plastics, which look like they were sanded down, but the tires are almost new, the battery is new, the oil was recently changed, and the engine runs really well, after a thorough carb cleaning.  I took it around the block a couple of times, and boy is she responsive!  60+ mph in 2nd gear, and that was without really revving her hard at all.

As for waiting for the GS to warm up, I'm usually okay with it, but whenever I see other motorcyclists start their bikes and immediately ride off, it makes me wish, just slightly, that I could do the same.  I don't have very much to do to get ready to ride, either - tank back snaps on with magnets - so 15 seconds.  Helmet and gloves only take about a minute, so then I wait...and wait some more.  Good thing I don't live where it really gets cold, right?

Unless one of my bikes has not been ridden for a week, I wait maybe 20 to 40 seconds so I know the engine is happy. If run regularly or lots of times in a day, 5-10 seconds. Basically, enough time to get situated and off I go. If choke is on, I work it off during the first 30 seconds of riding. If I go to the store or gym, usually when I come out I just start (choke usually not needed unless really cold) and take off.

Quote from: phendric on November 05, 2011, 10:19:52 PM

Quote from: twocool on November 04, 2011, 04:36:42 PMCan't wait for 5 minute warm up .... wow!   I just start 'er up and leisurly get my gear ready.....jacket, gloves, helmet, crap bungee'd to the rear seat......takes just about 5 minutes...then off to work or whereever........

Old bike at cheap price?  Needs some "small" details?  Hmmm

Maybe good deal...maybe a new can of worms?

Like I said, the engine runs really well.  I had the top open to check the valve clearances, and the inside of the engine looks pristine.  Had to re-jet the carbs, though - the mixture was too rich and fouled the plugs pretty quickly.  Mostly what the bike needs it work on the aesthetics - like I said, it's missing turn signals and mirrors, and I'm going to have to paint the plastics, which look like they were sanded down, but the tires are almost new, the battery is new, the oil was recently changed, and the engine runs really well, after a thorough carb cleaning.  I took it around the block a couple of times, and boy is she responsive!  60+ mph in 2nd gear, and that was without really revving her hard at all.

As for waiting for the GS to warm up, I'm usually okay with it, but whenever I see other motorcyclists start their bikes and immediately ride off, it makes me wish, just slightly, that I could do the same.  I don't have very much to do to get ready to ride, either - tank back snaps on with magnets - so 15 seconds.  Helmet and gloves only take about a minute, so then I wait...and wait some more.  Good thing I don't live where it really gets cold, right?

Even though there's quite a few masochists on this forum that believe carbs are the be-all-end-all the truth is EFI is WAY better. Start, sit for a few seconds so the idle stables out (when it's SUPER cold), and off you go. Nothing beats EFI for fuel injection and efficiency. Absolutely nothing. Especially when carbs mean you have to stand in the cold waiting and then ride and get colder. I ride in all weather, and having a carbed bike makes it almost frustrating sometimes.

I learned to ride on EFI system, understand how to work with it, how it's tuned, and enjoy it on my bikes. But Carbs aren't a big deal. Very reliable. The warmup thing is completely over-blown, and with the enrichment circuit it's not a big deal to get the bike running. No need to warm it up. Start it, give it a second to get the oil pressure up and go. Adjust the choke as needed.

I prefer EFI. More reliable. Nice. But I wouldn't sweat the carbs.

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on November 06, 2011, 12:19:11 AM
carbs mean you have to stand in the cold waiting and then ride and get colder. I ride in all weather, and having a carbed bike makes it almost frustrating sometimes.

Stand in the cold waiting?

You're doing it wrong.

My start up routine on the GS500

- put choke on full
- start bike and let it rev as high as it wants to go
- attach bag to bike, put on jacket
- adjust choke so the bike is revving at 2k
- put on helmet and gloves
- sedately ride off
- a couple of clicks up the road turn choke off completely

No standing around waiting for anything.

My start up routine for my EFi Honda 919

- start bike up and let it rev as high as it wants to go
- attach tank bag, put on jacket
- put on helmet and gloves
- sedately ride off

See that? No difference.

People get too caught up in this warming up schtuff. It's simple, let the bike idle while you put on your gear. Then sedately ride off. How hard is that?

Michael

Old school:

Fuel injection or carb...Let the engine warm up at relitively low rpm.... no load (in neutral) until engine (and oil) is evenly warmed up.....then drive away, gently on the rpm at first....

New school:  get fuel injection, start and drive off top speed on cold engine.  Install thin oil so it doesn't have to warm up as much. 

Old school: most engine wear will happen in those first 5 minutes of driving on cold engine.  Warming up engine in neutral at low rpm prevents this engine wear.

New school: Be politically correct! in order to prevent global warming, you must never let engine idle, engine should never run if is machine moving....also must do no warm up.. to achieve good gas mileage average...

New school:   I am so f---ing important that 5 minutes is intolerable!

Cookie

Quote from: twocool on November 06, 2011, 04:23:50 AM
Old school:

Fuel injection or carb...Let the engine warm up at relitively low rpm.... no load (in neutral) until engine (and oil) is evenly warmed up.....then drive away, gently on the rpm at first....

New school:  get fuel injection, start and drive off top speed on cold engine.  Install thin oil so it doesn't have to warm up as much. 

Old school: most engine wear will happen in those first 5 minutes of driving on cold engine.  Warming up engine in neutral at low rpm prevents this engine wear.

New school: Be politically correct! in order to prevent global warming, you must never let engine idle, engine should never run if is machine moving....also must do no warm up.. to achieve good gas mileage average...

New school:   I am so f---ing important that 5 minutes is intolerable!

Cookie

It's a convenience. I introduce unneeded engine wear because my bike runs very lean (it's still stock) and I have to start my bike on full choke and taper down with the engine unloaded. With a fuel injected bike it still has to warm up (and here comes the major parallel) so that engine wear isn't given to the engine BUT I can leave sooner and the engine can idle at the proper RPMs to reduce engine wear.

It truly has nothing to do with global warming or instant gratification and everything to do with embracing the fact regardless of which side of the fence you sit on EFI is better. It can help reduce pollutants and if tuned differently can provide better more reliable fuel/air ratios for a racer. Changing the tuning on EFI is as simple as installing a power commander and putting in a new map which is unlike a carb where you have to take it off, change the jets, test the exhaust output for lean/rich conditions (if you do it right and not the jeri-rigged backyard mechanic way), pull off the carbs, change the jets again, test it again, rinse and repeat. If carbs were truly better, why would every single MotoGP and World Superbike bike have EFI? Spolier alert: it's better.


In the end all the jackbooted old school guys can keep the carbed bikes. I'd much rather pay a grand more for EFI than ever have to deal with carbs again.

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on November 06, 2011, 11:29:09 AM
It's a convenience. I introduce unneeded engine wear because my bike runs very lean (it's still stock) and I have to start my bike on full choke and taper down with the engine unloaded. With a fuel injected bike it still has to warm up (and here comes the major parallel) so that engine wear isn't given to the engine BUT I can leave sooner and the engine can idle at the proper RPMs to reduce engine wear.

It truly has nothing to do with global warming or instant gratification and everything to do with embracing the fact regardless of which side of the fence you sit on EFI is better. It can help reduce pollutants and if tuned differently can provide better more reliable fuel/air ratios for a racer. Changing the tuning on EFI is as simple as installing a power commander and putting in a new map which is unlike a carb where you have to take it off, change the jets, test the exhaust output for lean/rich conditions (if you do it right and not the jeri-rigged backyard mechanic way), pull off the carbs, change the jets again, test it again, rinse and repeat. If carbs were truly better, why would every single MotoGP and World Superbike bike have EFI? Spolier alert: it's better.

In the end all the jackbooted old school guys can keep the carbed bikes. I'd much rather pay a grand more for EFI than ever have to deal with carbs again.

Did you read my start up routine?

For my carburetored GS500 and Fuel Injected 919, my routine is the same. There is no "ride off sooner". And once you are on the road, a partially choked bike does not rev higher compared to the warmed up bike, for the same speeds.

DrMc, it seems you really have a hate on for the GS500. Post after post is you whining about the carbs and the like. So why don't you just sell your horrid bike with carbs and buy yourself a bike with EFI and your angst will be gone and your world will be all flowers and rainbows 

Short version: Sell it and be done with it and get your precious efi bike - or - keep it and shut the heck up cause incessant whining won't change it.

Michael

Ever notice how a majority of the technical threads end up in an argument about EFI   

I've done my share of ranting because I think it is a waste of time trying to fab up an EFI system for the GS's antiquated engine, a properly tuned set of carbs work just fine.  But overall EFI is the superior set up (especially one with an oxygen sensor in the exhaust so the computer can set fuel trim).  If EFI is important to you, you shouldn't have bought a GS   

As far as warming up, I'm with Mister.  I just ride away with the choke on and turn it off a few miles down the road.  I'm a mechanic by trade and understand the engine wear issue.  The GS is a cheap commuter bike to me that can be replaced pretty easily, I'm just worried about getting to work in the morning   

Rant ended

-Jessie

OK.... and now... can we get back on topic please? 

Quote from: Shepa on November 06, 2011, 12:35:05 PM
OK.... and now... can we get back on topic please? 

I forget, what was the topic again ? ?

Oh, yeah, somebody, or something , is stealing oil from the op. cuz he's too cheap to install one of those efi thingies ?

Amirite?

Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 06, 2011, 12:14:24 PM
Ever notice how a majority of the technical threads end up in an argument about EFI   

I've done my share of ranting because I think it is a waste of time trying to fab up an EFI system for the GS's antiquated engine, a properly tuned set of carbs work just fine.  But overall EFI is the superior set up (especially one with an oxygen sensor in the exhaust so the computer can set fuel trim).  If EFI is important to you, you shouldn't have bought a GS   

As far as warming up, I'm with Mister.  I just ride away with the choke on and turn it off a few miles down the road.  I'm a mechanic by trade and understand the engine wear issue.  The GS is a cheap commuter bike to me that can be replaced pretty easily, I'm just worried about getting to work in the morning   

Rant ended

-Jessie

I never implied I was going to fab anything up. The cost would outweigh the benefit.  I never implied EFI was terribly important to me, all I did was admit my (until purchasing this bike) naivety concerning the finicky nature of carbs. and how the gs500 drove home the fact EFI is there for a reason. Next weekend I'm finally free to continue rejetting my bike to run way richer than it is (it's super lean) and giving it more breathe-ability through a new exhaust/air filter set up. With the old jets out, I'm sure the bike will run better and warm up "normally". The fact of the matter is carbs are largely an inconvenience to take care. Having to take apart half my bike to diagnose a problem like a SLIGHTLY clogged jet is anything but fun.


As for getting back on topic, there's not much to discuss (which is how we got here).

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on November 06, 2011, 11:29:09 AMIt's a convenience. I introduce unneeded engine wear because my bike runs very lean (it's still stock) and I have to start my bike on full choke and taper down with the engine unloaded. With a fuel injected bike it still has to warm up (and here comes the major parallel) so that engine wear isn't given to the engine BUT I can leave sooner and the engine can idle at the proper RPMs to reduce engine wear.

Lean condition affects the inside of the cylinder, not the stuff outside the cylinder. Engine wear predominantly happens to parts outside the cylinder. Also, carbed bikes tend to run very rich during startup, thanks to the enrichment circuit.

We got into an EFI discussion because I mentioned that I don't like having to wait 5-10 minutes for my bike to warm up before I can ride it.  I've tried riding it with the choke still on a bit, and had some success, but largely stopped the practice when I found the engine was still so cold that I killed it several times in a row trying to ride away from a stop light.  Giving the engine gas in that situation didn't increase the RPMs, but rather bogged the engine down to the point that it died.  After that, I decided that it would be safer, and less annoying for the drivers behind me, to wait until the engine was largely warm.  So I wait for 5-7 minutes (longer if it's really cold) until revving the engine does't produce sputtering and back-firing.

As for my preferences with EFI?  I've never ridden a bike that has it, but every car I've owned has it, and it's largely "start it and drive it."  I've read that many EFY systems on bikes can have some roughness when really opening up the throttle - in this sense, carbs are smoother - but I don't know if that's still true or not.  When I was looking to buy my first bike, several people I talked to and who know me told me 2 things: 1) don't get a 250cc because you'll be tired of it very quickly, and 2) get EFI if possible.  I didn't go with EFI because I found the GS500 at a pretty cheap price, and because, realistically, I probably didn't have enough $$ to shell out for a bike with it (graduate student with a family, ya know?).

As for getting back on topic, I'm not sure that'll happen until I do a compression test, and start figuring out what the source of oil burning is.

Quote from: Shepa on November 06, 2011, 12:35:05 PM
OK.... and now... can we get back on topic please? 

Back to topic:

Missing oil is still missing!!

Guy got different bike to mess with.

We may never know where the  oil went!?


Cookie