Quote from: Phil B on March 01, 2012, 10:45:00 AM


To tt_four:
Dunno about original poster, but if I end up getting a new bike, I think maybe a SV650SF with raised bars could be my style.
I love the look of the fully faired version, but the ergos of the S are crazy low. They're almost GSX level.
Actually.. they are GSX level.

I know how you feel, I've had all different kinds of bars from low clipons, to higher clipons, to streetbikes with dirt bars, and currently I have a supermoto so the bars are about as tall as they could get. They all have their plus sides and downsides. There's no real answer but to pick whatever you want. If you don't mind tinkering with things don't let the bars on a bike deter you, they can always be swapped with some new bars and a new brake line. I definitely understand the benefits of clipons but I love sitting up a bit and having a bike I can toss around a little bit better. The first 600 I had was a triumph and it came with clipons, I eventually bought a spare top triple, drilled it, bolted on risers and some renthals. It looked awesome, but I hated it, pulled them off and sold it. Years later I bought another bike that already had some upright bars on it and loved them, so you won't know until you try it. Spare top triples, dirt bars, and handlebar risers can all be picked up on ebay super cheap, and a longer front brake line doesn't cost all that much. Here's the test fit of the new setup:



I also love SV650s, although my soft spot is for the first generation SV650S, such good looking bikes!

As a guy with seat time on an R6, GS500 (I've owned two), FZ6, and old GPZ750, these are my conclusions:

-Suspension: Modern damper rod suspension is amazing.  It provides both better handling and superior cushioning.  Modern suspension is strikingly good.
-Brakes:  Modern 3+ piston calipers are amazing.  The feedback is great, and the bite is strong.
-Power:  If you have a 600cc water cooled engine there is no need for more power on the street (provided your bike is under 550 pounds).  I view the desire for a liter bike to be:
a. a desire not to shift intelligently.
b. a remnant from the days when bikes were air-cooled, and 1000cc's were necessary to provide the acceleration of modern 600cc water-cooled engines.
-Comfort:  The R6 is the least comfortable bike I've ever ridden.  Older seems to be better when it comes to ergos, with the FZ6 being the new. comfortable exception.

Comparing bikes, with my current as the first, adjusted to account for the clipons.

Don't be like this guy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmHK0XFCPVI&feature=g-vrec&context=G267a932RVAAAAAAAAAw

 

Quote from: xunedeinx on March 01, 2012, 08:28:03 AM

It isn't that the bikes unhappy, it's that compared to the new technology (that R6 front end, by itself, is a marvel), the GS really shows how old tech it really is.

Its why I wanted to do a FE swap, and stick an I4 in it. But, even than, I have a bike that will be unsellable, compared to now where I can revert it back to stock (Still have all my OG parts), resell the aftermarket back into the community, and resell it for 3k come spring time.

Its destroy my resale value for what I really want, and spend 3k more (all ready spent over 1k getting it to where it is now), or just buying the bike that is what I need.

And, the GS on Floridas super-slab S-U-C-K-S!!!

I'll wind up keeping the GS and use it as a track bike, and getting a 600/750/1k and sticking a nice seat, big windscreen, and comfy bars on it.

I'm glad you got some seat time on a modern bike!!  I hated to seem like I was always poo pooing on your build ideas but this is exactly why.  The GS is a good basic commuter bike.  It is a waste of time and money trying to turn it into something it is not when there are much better bikes out there.  If you are someone that enjoys a project it is fine; but if you just want a sporty, nice handling bike you are better off buying something else   

-Jessie

Quote from: Juan1 on March 02, 2012, 12:15:32 AM
-Power:  If you have a 600cc water cooled engine there is no need for more power on the street (provided your bike is under 550 pounds).  I view the desire for a liter bike to be:
a. a desire not to shift intelligently.
b. a remnant from the days when bikes were air-cooled, and 1000cc's were necessary to provide the acceleration of modern 600cc water-cooled engines.

I don't feel like "intelligently" is the right word. General intelligence would say that the less a bike needs to shift, the more productive you could be by focusing your energy on riding instead of shifting. My last 1000cc bike could come out of a turn at idle in the first few gears and still pull away without a hickup,  a normal 600cc I4 would just start chugging and jerking you back and forth if you tried that. I'm not sure what it is about shifting constantly to keep a bike between 7000-13000rpm that would be considered intelligent when you can buy a bike with enough bottom end to just ride along without having to think about it. Most newer 600s have no bottom end and are really one of the most impractical motors you could use on the road. If you're doing nothing but nice twisty back roads then yes, they have plenty of power. If you commute on one or get stuck in traffic occassionally, there's nothing nicer than a bike that will just start to pull itself away from a stop when you start to let out the clutch, without always having to rev the bike up a few thousand rpm to get it moving.

You also forgot:

C. motorcycles are toys to a lot of people and they just want something stupidly fast.

My bikes my DD, it isn't a toy.

Quote from: BaltimoreGS on March 02, 2012, 05:00:09 AMI'm glad you got some seat time on a modern bike!!  I hated to seem like I was always poo pooing on your build ideas but this is exactly why.  The GS is a good basic commuter bike.  It is a waste of time and money trying to turn it into something it is not

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner 

Personally, I am looking into a Ninja 650, about the same weight as a GS500F, but almost twice the HP, EFI, upright riding position, usable power delivery, especially in the low to medium-rpm range. I do all day rides and the thought of being hunched over on a replica racer all day is not my idea of winning 

Amusing... the ninja 650 is more upright than a gs500. Or that matter, a gsx650

The gsx650 is almost identical in posture to the gs500. (and not coincidentally, has almost the same plastics. Good for us, but a shame for the 650 )

the ninja does look pretty, that's for sure.

Quote from: Phil B on March 03, 2012, 01:52:33 PM
Amusing... the ninja 650 is more upright than a gs500. Or that matter, a gsx650

The gsx650 is almost identical in posture to the gs500. (and not coincidentally, has almost the same plastics. Good for us, but a shame for the 650 )

the ninja does look pretty, that's for sure.

This is also interesting, granted the GSX is a Sport Touring bike and the Ninja 650 is not really a Sport Bike.

•GSX650F: 216 kg (480 lb) (dry)
•Ninja 650: 178 kg (390 lb) (dry)

Quote from: Phil B on March 03, 2012, 01:52:33 PM
Amusing... the ninja 650 is more upright than a gs500. Or that matter, a gsx650

The gsx650 is almost identical in posture to the gs500. (and not coincidentally, has almost the same plastics. Good for us, but a shame for the 650 )

the ninja does look pretty, that's for sure.

There was quite a bit of hate for those on here the last time I posted about one.  Apparently the frames are junk.  Personally, I'd still like to have one.

@Xune I was using Motul 300v oil in my GS and am now using Mobile 1 Racing 4t Synthetic and I can tell you, my gears shift as smooth as silk. When I hear people here whine about the clunky box then also using cheap Walmart oil, I shake my head. You cannot use any old cheap sh!t oil and expect it to be as silky smooth as other more advanced oils. Long way of saying, the smoothness of the R6 gear changes may have been due to the oil used. Not discounting any gearbox advances, just saying, smoothness in gears also has a BIG part played by oil.

As for the Posture thingy you've shown. It has the SV650s as less forward lean than the GS500. That's actually NOT the case. The sport SV650 has Much more forward lean than the GS500. The naked SV650 on the other hand is quite upright (I just noticed, for the GS500 you positioned at the Rear of the seat for the others you positioned at the Front.)

Guy at work bought an R6. After he'd had it a month I asked "What's your bike like to ride? Is it comfortable?" He replied... "It'd shaZam! all over your bike in a race."  I said, "Um, yeah, of course it would. I wasn't asking you if your 600cc fuel injected Racing tuned bike could beat my 20 year old technology 487cc carburetor biked, I was asking how Comfy the bike was" knowing it was NOT comfy at all. He then told me how comfy it was blah blah blah. 2 months later he sold it cause it hurt his back, arms and wrists to ride it.

As I keep saying, the bike you buy HAS to be comfortable. If it is not you won't want to ride it and that defeats having a bike. And when you do ride your focus is taken off the road and onto your discomfort and that makes you less aware of potential hazards. I'm not saying buy a GoldWing but a bike that causes aches after a few minutes is not a bike you wisely get.

@Safe The mindset the GS500 is a Learners bike is one of my peeves. Back in 1920 a fellow by the name of Gene Walker held the motorcycle land speed record on a 994cc Indian. That speed was a tad over 100mph (165kph) which is the GS500s Top Speed. So our bike, as it is now, can do speeds once unheard of on a motorcycle.

As far as Production bikes go it really wasn't until the 40s that 900+cc bikes got much faster than our humble GS500.

Point being, the speed of the GS500 as a standard production bike exceeds most productions bikes from a handful of decades ago, yet those bikes were not thought of as Beginner Bikes.

As Jessie said, the GS500 is a good basic commuter bike (which can also be enjoyed on the weekend much like people enjoy Kawasaki W800s, Guzzi V7 Classics, Bonnevilles, etc). That learners find it useful for themselves is a testament to the bike's manufacturing but that doesn't relegate into the beginner ranks.

Michael

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on March 03, 2012, 02:38:50 PM

This is also interesting, granted the GSX is a Sport Touring bike and the Ninja 650 is not really a Sport Bike.

•GSX650F: 216 kg (480 lb) (dry)
•Ninja 650: 178 kg (390 lb) (dry)

wow, the nninja looks light. and looks like a sport bike.
but definately not the posture of one.
What would you call it, then?

Quote from: Phil B on March 03, 2012, 09:25:24 PMwow, the nninja looks light. and looks like a sport bike.
but definately not the posture of one.
What would you call it, then?

Kawasaki calls it a Sport bike, guess it's not a Supersport?
Whatever you call it, it sure looks like fun!

Quote from: mister on March 03, 2012, 05:19:46 PM@Safe The mindset the GS500 is a Learners bike is one of my peeves. Back in 1920 a fellow by the name of Gene Walker held the motorcycle land speed record on a 994cc Indian. That speed was a tad over 100mph (165kph) which is the GS500s Top Speed. So our bike, as it is now, can do speeds once unheard of on a motorcycle.

As far as Production bikes go it really wasn't until the 40s that 900+cc bikes got much faster than our humble GS500.

Point being, the speed of the GS500 as a standard production bike exceeds most productions bikes from a handful of decades ago, yet those bikes were not thought of as Beginner Bikes.

Yeah, but the bikes from back then had much worse suspension and brakes than our GS500s. Yes, it's possible.

I think you have to look at the bike and what it was designed for, the GS is a nice smaller bike that has enough power for most people. the only other bike that i would buy unless i got a hell of a deal and then i would most likely sell it anyway is a Ducati Monster 620 and its more for the look and ride than power, i also like the SV650, and ZX6 but i don't think that i would ever buy a R6 or a GSXR6 . When i bought my GS, i got it from a 16-18 year old who had it for a "learner bike" and just got a new R6, and his 22 year old sister who was all of 105lbs soaking wet had a year old R1. it was hilarious, i just loaded the bike up and left.

Also it says alot to me that they have left the bike basically the same since 89.

My sister has a faster bike than I do haha. I've never ridden with her but I don't get the impression that she rides it fast.

I have ridden and/or owned GS500's since they first came out in 1989. Praised by some as perhaps the best small-displacement bike to come out of Japan in a long time, over the years the old tech performance of the bike has somewhat permanently relegated it to beginner status in the mindset of the mainstream motorcycling press.